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Best wood repair product for hinge area on big antique clock door

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Forum topic by hemioutlaw posted 11-05-2018 01:30 PM 1267 views 0 times favorited 16 replies Add to Favorites Watch
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hemioutlaw

4 posts in 263 days


11-05-2018 01:30 PM

Topic tags/keywords: victorian refurbishing veneering mahogany question tip

Texas howdy to y’all,
I’m chomping at the bit to do this repair but y’all know about what they say about Haste and Waste and I’m only gonna get one shot at this so its imperative that I do it correctly. I’m seeking some guidance on the best product to use to repair the access doors damaged hinged area on this beautiful old Circa 1850’s drumhead clock. Though the case side is not horrible there’s been quite a bit of actual wood loss on the door side and the typical screw area stripout so I need to fill with a product that will both adhere to the wood that is still there and also be able to bear the load of the door without seperating and falling off. From my searches on the web I came down to two products 1) JB weld for wood and 2) Durhams water putty, well since I was at wallyworld anyway yesterday I found at least one of the products I was coveting.

Since the hinge will essentially cover the repair, the aesthetics of the product won’t really be an issue but I do have a concern about how the product could possibly interact with the ages old flame mahogany veneer that is on the front of the door as the product will be coming into actual contact with it on the backside of the veneer as there is one area that the wood is just gone and i’d truly hate to see the veneer bubble up, discolor or god knows what.

I also have a major question about how one goes about placement and getting the newly drilled hinge screw holes lined up when fitting a door where the hinges are blind as it also has to line up perfectly with an existing locking mechanism on the case.

Anyhow,
Any tips, advice or reccomendations to help me avoid turning this into a catastrophic nightmare would be immensely appreciated.

-- Twenty years from now you will be more disappointed by the things you didn't do than by the ones you did.


16 replies so far

View Blindhog's profile

Blindhog

126 posts in 1471 days


#1 posted 11-05-2018 02:06 PM

I’ve had good results using this product. Seems like it should work if the repair will be hidden.

https://www.amazon.com/Abatron-WoodEpox-Epoxy-Replacement-Compound/dp/B0149KZAX8?ref=fsclppldp2

-- Don't let perfection get in the way of plenty good enough

View Robert's profile

Robert

3441 posts in 1903 days


#2 posted 11-05-2018 02:14 PM

If I’m looking at the pics right, its in the area where the profile is, so the wood is thinner, right?

The Durhams rock hard probably not work. I think you need an epoxy based product like the one linked to above.

A lot of those products (even epoxy) do well as fillers and repairing damaged wood, but often fail when you start putting in screws + a little stress.

The best solution is to remove the damaged wood and glue in a block.

But of course you will be face with matching the color.

This is a tough one.

-- Everything is a prototype thats why its one of a kind!!

View shipwright's profile

shipwright

8320 posts in 3220 days


#3 posted 11-05-2018 02:25 PM

If the clock is that old you will damage its value by using epoxy or other modern products, visible or not. If you don’t care about that, yes epoxy will do the job.
The right way to make this repair IMHO would be to cut and pare away just the hinge area at about 45 degrees in all directions (so that the back is larger than the front) and then to glue in a new piece of material as similar as you can find. Use hide glue, avoid damaging the visible part, and colour match.

-- Paul M ..............the early bird may get the worm but it’s the second mouse that gets the cheese! http://thecanadianschooloffrenchmarquetry.com/

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DrDirt

4581 posts in 4165 days


#4 posted 11-05-2018 02:25 PM

I would go along blindhog’s route…. some sort of wood “Epoxy”
don’t think you shoudl have issues with the veneer lifting

Here is an article using the Kwikwood, to repair the arm of a chair that had been gnawed off by a puppy.
https://monroefurniturerestoration.com/repairing-a-dog-damaged-period-chair/

-- “The two most important days in your life are the day you are born and the day you find out why.” Mark Twain

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shipwright

8320 posts in 3220 days


#5 posted 11-05-2018 02:27 PM

*

-- Paul M ..............the early bird may get the worm but it’s the second mouse that gets the cheese! http://thecanadianschooloffrenchmarquetry.com/

View johnstoneb's profile

johnstoneb

3117 posts in 2595 days


#6 posted 11-05-2018 02:32 PM

x1 shipwright
Your first picture looks like someone already tried to repair it using glue, eposy, JB Weld or something similar and it failed Which is what more of the same will do again. The only way to repair it that will last is shipwrights route or similar.

-- Bruce, Boise, ID

View bilyo's profile

bilyo

746 posts in 1525 days


#7 posted 11-05-2018 04:15 PM

I agree with shipwright and johnstoneb. The correct way to do this is to cut out the damage and replace it with some of the original (mahogany) wood with hide glue. It will take some careful and accurate chisel work. Using epoxy on an antique like this would be a mistake; probably won’t work and might have an adverse effect on value. And, I have never had good results with water putty on anything.
Shipwright,
Can you provide a sketch showing what you mean by “pare away just the hinge area at about 45 degrees in all directions (so that the back is larger than the front)” ?

View CharlesNeil's profile

CharlesNeil

2483 posts in 4293 days


#8 posted 11-05-2018 05:16 PM

Shipwright is dead on the money .

I have done alot of this sort of stuff, for museums and so forth

Something of this age , you expect to see repairs, trying to camouflage isnt the best idea,

people see something you tried to hide, they wonder what else is hidden

View hemioutlaw's profile

hemioutlaw

4 posts in 263 days


#9 posted 11-05-2018 05:36 PM

“If the clock is that old you will damage its value by using epoxy or other modern products, visible or not. If you don’t care about that, yes epoxy will do the job.
The right way to make this repair IMHO would be to cut and pare away just the hinge area at about 45 degrees in all directions (so that the back is larger than the front) and then to glue in a new piece of material as similar as you can find. Use hide glue, avoid damaging the visible part, and colour match.”

Thanks for the replys,
I kind of lean with shipwrights response for the reasons that he mentioned and I believe that once repaired the wood will offer a better bite for the screws. Though I’ve used different epoxy products before i’ve never actually set screws into them and once the product has set up and hardened I would be concerned about it cracking in the screwed area especially with a gravatational load on it (think I’ll do some junk wood testing on that).

1) So that I’ve got good control I’m thinking of using my Dremel tool to carefully remove the damaged wood from the hinge area so that I can insert a new piece and wondering what kind of cutter would be best?

2) I didn’t see anybody tackle my other query about how to get the already existing hinges to align and I keep staring at it and scratching my head. The door lock is already set and the case side hinges are already set but once i’ve repaired the door how in the heck do I go about knowing where to predrill the screw holes in the door side. I need to somehow transfer where the holes are on the already installed case side hinge to the door. I’ve thought about A)making a cardboard template that simulates the door and pressing through the holes with a scratch awl but that still sounds kind of shaky and B) Using some kind of marking product that will leave an impression of the hinge outline or C) Measuring and layout, which as a machinist by trade i’m quite adept at but still …..Hmmmm?

Is there some kind of trick to this or tool that i’m overlooking?

-- Twenty years from now you will be more disappointed by the things you didn't do than by the ones you did.

View bilyo's profile

bilyo

746 posts in 1525 days


#10 posted 11-05-2018 09:57 PM

Best way it to set the hinge into the mortise that you will cut for it and, using a vix bit and the hinge as a template, pre-drill the screw holes. If you don’t have a vix bit, do a google search and you will find a number of sources. Your local hardware; Lowes, Homedepot, Ace, etc. will likely have them. You can also mark the place for the pre-drill using an awl or punch (again, using the hinge as a template). However, this will never be as accurate. The vix bit has a spring loaded sleeve around the bit that centers the bit in the hinge hole as you drill. Quick, easy, accurate.

I think the best tool to use is a good sharp chisel. However, if you prefer to use your dremel, this burr or similar would likely do the job.

View shipwright's profile

shipwright

8320 posts in 3220 days


#11 posted 11-05-2018 11:50 PM



Shipwright,
Can you provide a sketch showing what you mean by “pare away just the hinge area at about 45 degrees in all directions (so that the back is larger than the front)” ?

- bilyo

Let me try without a sketch first. Personally I would make two cuts, likely with my dozuki, at a 45 degree angle at the top and bottom edges of the hinge mortise. That would make the back side of the cutout 2x thickness bigger than the mortise. Then I would tilt the saw to undercut the side of the mortise and pare it back with a chisel to 45 degrees as well. Picture a truncated pyramid shaped patch whose top is exactly the size of the mortise.
It is like square cutting out the damage and glueing a piece in except it gives much better glue surface.

-- Paul M ..............the early bird may get the worm but it’s the second mouse that gets the cheese! http://thecanadianschooloffrenchmarquetry.com/

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bilyo

746 posts in 1525 days


#12 posted 11-06-2018 01:01 AM

Sorry. I still think a sketch would make what you are proposing more clear. Also, if I’m seeing it correctly, the OP’s first picture shows the front veneer that needs to be protected and preserved. I’m not sure if your proposal will effect that or not.

View shipwright's profile

shipwright

8320 posts in 3220 days


#13 posted 11-06-2018 01:40 AM

Too many angles to sketch easily but how’s this?

-- Paul M ..............the early bird may get the worm but it’s the second mouse that gets the cheese! http://thecanadianschooloffrenchmarquetry.com/

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bilyo

746 posts in 1525 days


#14 posted 11-06-2018 02:34 AM

Good idea. Provides more area for gluing. However, how do you make those cuts without also cutting the face veneer?

View hemioutlaw's profile

hemioutlaw

4 posts in 263 days


#15 posted 11-06-2018 02:40 AM

Yes shipwright,
That it what I was envisioning that you meant, the angled sides provide a greater area for gluing than a straight 90 degree cut. Good advice Thx.

I was unfamiliar with the dozuki and had to look it up, I have a couple of Japanese saws already for trim work but the blade particularly on the smaller one is quite flexible and the larger one is quite frankly too cumbersome to finesse out a detail such as this. The dozuki saw appears to be stouter and somewhat similar to a keyhole or drywall saw but with a finer blade and tooth pitch, guessing I’ll add one to my inventory.

I looked at the “vix bit” as well and can see the benefit to its usage but not necessarily how it will help me precisely transfer the hinge holes to the door without losing my orientation of the hinges being installed in the case and the door lock aligned.

Still thinking on transferring the holes ?

-- Twenty years from now you will be more disappointed by the things you didn't do than by the ones you did.

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