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Can I get some opinions on Dust Collection system design? All opinions welcome

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Forum topic by SubjectArc posted 11-03-2018 05:29 PM 1955 views 1 time favorited 14 replies Add to Favorites Watch
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SubjectArc

8 posts in 260 days


11-03-2018 05:29 PM

Topic tags/keywords: question

Hey all, I have an woodworking – enabler of a girlfriend. Or maybe she just hates how dusty her car is getting when she parks in the garage. Either way, I have been told I have a present coming in the form of a Grizzly G0862 coming in Dec. So, I have until then to design and order the plumbing. Here’s the DC:

https://www.grizzly.com/products/Grizzly-3-HP-Portable-Cyclone-Dust-Collector/G0862

The first step was to visit Bill Pentz’s in depth website on the matter. I learned a lot! But I didn’t come away with as much as I needed to make certain decisions for purchases. So I’m hoping to get some advice from more experienced people than I.

I want to provide a couple of pictures for all I was able to come up with for possible configurations, but what it doesn’t show is that I have 11.5-12ft ceilings. It is also a finished garage, drywalled / painted / textured.

I should also mention that just about everything in the garage will be mobile and on casters. So whatever I have can be moved based on people’s suggestions. I was only able to come up with 3 options but I’m not married to any particular one.

Option 1 involves keeping all plumbing at hip level or lower. It would probably involve PVC or some very clunky protective boxes if I went with metal duct. The worry for that would be a trip hazard, if I keep to the DC’s max diameter size of 8”. Additionally, I would probably have to do PVC for strength along the floor. Seeing the prices for 8” PVC fittings was traumatic to say the least.

https://imgur.com/aleuwV4

Option 2 would raise the plumbing to ceiling level (noted in red) for the centrally located machines. Flex hoses (noted in blue) would make the final connection after bringing the duct down several feet vertically. I worry about that long of a vertical drop for efficiency, and maybe just being the way while wrestling sheet goods.

https://imgur.com/yIHgVbG

Option 3 would commit to being a valet during the winter months, and being willing to shove a very hefty jointer and planer to the wall for DC hookup when time to use them. A vertical drop for the table saw would still be required. For the less snowy months I think I could leave this configuration in place.

https://imgur.com/TR7GTwO

I would love any and all advice on shop layout and duct diameter (or anything else). The cost of the plumbing is so high that I would like to avoid any expensive “experiments” that I’d sure end up by doing on my own. Thanks for taking the time to read through it, and thanks in advance for the advice!


14 replies so far

View EarlS's profile

EarlS

2879 posts in 2767 days


#1 posted 11-03-2018 06:25 PM

First of all, try to center your DC so you don’t have overly long runs, where the multi-function table is. I also suggest that you flip your table saw and assembly table so the saw is closer to the DC. Cluster all of the machines that need DC as close to the unit as you can.

Since you are a one-man shop you don’t need 5” or 6” ducts (certainly not 8”) since you can only run one tool at a time. 4” or 5” should be fine. You will need blast gates if you are going with PVC runs. Running over head doesn’t really add much pressure loss and it gets your runs out from underfoot. Your DC should be able to handle it.

You could use overhead PVC (I don’t recommend sheet metal since PVC sewer pipe is inexpensive and much easier to assemble/install) and a drop hose to the table saw, but I would use a 4” flex hose for the rest of the machines and simply move it to whatever piece of equipment you are going to use.

Honestly, though, the best approach might be to buy some flex hose, some PVC pipe, and a couple of good blast gates and try out different configurations until you come up with a layout that really works. I’ve reconfigured my equipment layout and DC several times as I worked out the best arrangement.

-- Earl "I'm a pessamist - generally that increases the chance that things will turn out better than expected"

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EarlS

2879 posts in 2767 days


#2 posted 11-03-2018 06:26 PM

Duplicate post

-- Earl "I'm a pessamist - generally that increases the chance that things will turn out better than expected"

View Holbs's profile

Holbs

2213 posts in 2448 days


#3 posted 11-03-2018 07:41 PM

As Earl above says…8” is excessive and probably not a great idea. Go 6” for all ducting. Pricing and unsure if even 1900 CFM would support 8” or even 7” diameter. I would assume 8”+ is in the realm of 5HP machines.
I too, went hip/chest level for ducting. Don’t do it. Sure, might work now but you’ll regret it in the future when you need that wall space. I have since moved to ceiling.
I originally used HVAC 6” ducting for the sole reason of price tag since I could get all 26 gauge items at cost, not retail due to friend at HVAC distribution center. If I had to go full retail for either HVAC or PVC, I would go PVC. Much easier to work with and edit for future needs.

-- The Carpenter Bee is derived from the Ancient Greek word wood-cutter "xylokopos/ξυλοκὀπος"

View Fred Hargis's profile

Fred Hargis

5585 posts in 2912 days


#4 posted 11-03-2018 07:53 PM

I’ll echo the points made above. Go overhead, You can probably make that central drop only 1 pipe with 3 feeds off the bottom…each with it’s own blast gate. I have mine set up that way. I also agree the 6” should be the best balance of cost/performance. 6” thinwall PVC can be hard to find, and the real money might be to get the fittings. So consider both and go with the one that’s doable.

-- Our village hasn't lost it's idiot, he was elected to congress.

View Redoak49's profile

Redoak49

4042 posts in 2407 days


#5 posted 11-03-2018 09:55 PM

The Grizzly spec of 1941 cfm is a bit optimistic for a 3 HP DC.

View WoodenDreams's profile

WoodenDreams

619 posts in 329 days


#6 posted 11-04-2018 01:15 AM

This is good for saw dust and shavings. But have you considered a Air Filtration Unit for all the wading dust. Since your girl friend doesn’t like a dusty car, a Air Filtration Unit will help with that, and also benefit your lungs from the dust.

View SubjectArc's profile

SubjectArc

8 posts in 260 days


#7 posted 11-04-2018 02:05 AM



First of all, try to center your DC so you don t have overly long runs, where the multi-function table is. I also suggest that you flip your table saw and assembly table so the saw is closer to the DC. Cluster all of the machines that need DC as close to the unit as you can.

Since you are a one-man shop you don t need 5” or 6” ducts (certainly not 8”) since you can only run one tool at a time. 4” or 5” should be fine. You will need blast gates if you are going with PVC runs. Running over head doesn t really add much pressure loss and it gets your runs out from underfoot. Your DC should be able to handle it.

You could use overhead PVC (I don t recommend sheet metal since PVC sewer pipe is inexpensive and much easier to assemble/install) and a drop hose to the table saw, but I would use a 4” flex hose for the rest of the machines and simply move it to whatever piece of equipment you are going to use.

Honestly, though, the best approach might be to buy some flex hose, some PVC pipe, and a couple of good blast gates and try out different configurations until you come up with a layout that really works. I ve reconfigured my equipment layout and DC several times as I worked out the best arrangement.

- EarlS

Earl, this is great advice. I think I will be moving my DC to the northeast corner (swapping spots with the tool chest) as well as flipping the TS and AT 180* as you specified. I have plenty of space south of their position to slide them for when ripping large sections of sheet goods, if needed.

Regarding the vertical drops of plumbing, would you recommend I stick with PVC for as long as possible? I’m envisioning a “Tower of suck” that goes all the way to floor, with one or multiple wyes branching off in the appropriate tool direction. This way I can be very minimal with flex hose usage.

Thanks again!!

View SubjectArc's profile

SubjectArc

8 posts in 260 days


#8 posted 11-04-2018 02:06 AM


As Earl above says…8” is excessive and probably not a great idea. Go 6” for all ducting. Pricing and unsure if even 1900 CFM would support 8” or even 7” diameter. I would assume 8”+ is in the realm of 5HP machines.
I too, went hip/chest level for ducting. Don t do it. Sure, might work now but you ll regret it in the future when you need that wall space. I have since moved to ceiling.
I originally used HVAC 6” ducting for the sole reason of price tag since I could get all 26 gauge items at cost, not retail due to friend at HVAC distribution center. If I had to go full retail for either HVAC or PVC, I would go PVC. Much easier to work with and edit for future needs.

- Holbs

Thanks Holbs, the 6” suggestions from everyone is really helpful in that there’s so much more PVC options at a reasonable price. Jay Bates has a great video of using a pretty similar infrastructure, so I’ll definitely be cheating off his (and your all’s advice) Thank you!!

View SubjectArc's profile

SubjectArc

8 posts in 260 days


#9 posted 11-04-2018 02:10 AM



I ll echo the points made above. Go overhead, You can probably make that central drop only 1 pipe with 3 feeds off the bottom…each with it s own blast gate. I have mine set up that way. I also agree the 6” should be the best balance of cost/performance. 6” thinwall PVC can be hard to find, and the real money might be to get the fittings. So consider both and go with the one that s doable.

- Fred Hargis

Thanks Fred, I think this is exactly what I am going to attempt. Did you go all the way to the floor with your PVC drop, for support? I can probably find a way to block off the last bit of PVC pipe that wouldn’t be contributing to dust transport. Lowe’s seems to have a decent-ish selection of sewer PVC piping that is MUCH more budget friendly than the 8” monsters I see on supplier websites.

View SubjectArc's profile

SubjectArc

8 posts in 260 days


#10 posted 11-04-2018 02:14 AM



The Grizzly spec of 1941 cfm is a bit optimistic for a 3 HP DC.

- Redoak49

I tend to agree, that’s the exact reason I wanted to reach out to you experienced ones! I want to make sure that I’m being as efficient as possible with ducting, in case the real world performance doesn’t come close to the spec sheet.

I’m hopeful that these units (made in Taiwan) might be of a higher quality than some of their chinese factory offerings. I wonder if Harbor Freight has one of those handheld suction sensors I’ve seen on youtube to test DC systems. hmmmm…

View SubjectArc's profile

SubjectArc

8 posts in 260 days


#11 posted 11-04-2018 02:18 AM



This is good for saw dust and shavings. But have you considered a Air Filtration Unit for all the wading dust. Since your girl friend doesn t like a dusty car, a Air Filtration Unit will help with that, and also benefit your lungs from the dust.

- WoodenDreams

WD, this is an great idea. An AFU is definitely something that I want to deploy. I was on another woodworking forum and a guy suggested a pretty cool DIY rig involving a used furnace blower motor and some HEPA filters. It sounds like a pretty fun project. For right now I’m getting by with a 3M P100 respirator, but boy would it be nice to have something to lessen my current PPE requirements.

View Brawler's profile

Brawler

36 posts in 249 days


#12 posted 11-14-2018 06:23 PM


This is good for saw dust and shavings. But have you considered a Air Filtration Unit for all the wading dust. Since your girl friend doesn t like a dusty car, a Air Filtration Unit will help with that, and also benefit your lungs from the dust.

- WoodenDreams

WD, this is an great idea. An AFU is definitely something that I want to deploy. I was on another woodworking forum and a guy suggested a pretty cool DIY rig involving a used furnace blower motor and some HEPA filters. It sounds like a pretty fun project. For right now I m getting by with a 3M P100 respirator, but boy would it be nice to have something to lessen my current PPE requirements.

- SubjectArc


I’m about to build one of those, but I’m thinking about making it as a planer stand too. Dual purpose to save room.

-- Daniel

View Fred Hargis's profile

Fred Hargis

5585 posts in 2912 days


#13 posted 11-14-2018 07:37 PM


Thanks Fred, I think this is exactly what I am going to attempt. Did you go all the way to the floor with your PVC drop, for support?

- SubjectArc

My center drop goes down to within 6” of the floor. The bottom of the center drop is an elbow that pulls from the cabinet on the table saw. The floor support is from a pair of plywood legs that support the blast gate. The pipe is all held together with screws on the vertical runs, so it all holds up very well.

-- Our village hasn't lost it's idiot, he was elected to congress.

View TungOil's profile

TungOil

1273 posts in 914 days


#14 posted 11-15-2018 04:11 AM

You have started at the end of the DC system design process. You need to first design the ductwork based on your machinery requirements, proper duct velocities and pressure drops. Only then can you size the Dust collector to match your needs and ductwork.

Start here: https://airhand.com/designing/

-- The optimist says "the glass is half full". The pessimist says "the glass is half empty". The engineer says "the glass is twice as big as it needs to be"

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