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Jointer Cutter Speed

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Forum topic by builtinbkyn posted 08-01-2018 09:35 PM 892 views 0 times favorited 34 replies Add to Favorites Watch
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builtinbkyn

2939 posts in 1360 days


08-01-2018 09:35 PM

I’ve been looking at 8” jointers. I’m pretty sure I can live without a planer, but I do miss having a jointer in the shop. In the running are bother spiral cutter head offerings from PM an Oliver and last on the list a Jet. I’d like to consider Baileigh, but they have a longer lead time and with freight costs, it’s at the top of the list in price.

Looking at the specs of all of these machines, the PMs have a 7000rpm cutter head speed where as the Jet and Oliver are rated at 5500rpm. All of the machines are rated at 2hp. Is there any significance to this in terms of finish quality and the ability to deal with difficult woods? The Jet is the least expensive of the group and also has the least number of cutters – 36 vs 54 for the PMs and Oliver.

-- Bill, Yo!......in Brooklyn & Steel City :)


34 replies so far

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Aj2

2321 posts in 2217 days


#1 posted 08-01-2018 09:54 PM

Look toward the machines that have the largest diameter cutting circle. Pm have always been fast not sure why but they are loud.
Good Luck

-- Aj

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builtinbkyn

2939 posts in 1360 days


#2 posted 08-01-2018 10:04 PM

That information seems to be lacking. I’ll have to do some more digging. Also, the Oliver is offered in a different iteration – an 8” with a Byrd cutter head. That cutter head has 40 carbide cutters vs the 54, but it’s the parallelogram version vs the sliding DTs. Any significance to the Byrd head vs their OEM cutter with 54 inserts?

-- Bill, Yo!......in Brooklyn & Steel City :)

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pottz

5552 posts in 1404 days


#3 posted 08-01-2018 10:24 PM

cant speak for there jointer but the lathe,dust collector,spindle sander and drum sander i have work flawlessly,ive been very happy with jets quality.happy shopping bill.

-- sawdust the bigger the pile the bigger my smile-larry,so cal.

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Aj2

2321 posts in 2217 days


#4 posted 08-01-2018 10:28 PM

I do know that both heads will take the same carbide insert. 15×15x25 with a radius edge. But the screw head is slightly different on the German made Oliver head.
I had to replace all the screws on a Oliver head once. I did find them but it wasn’t easy.
I think the Oliver might have a better design with the parallelogram beds.
Good Luck

-- Aj

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BroncoBrian

875 posts in 2378 days


#5 posted 08-01-2018 10:40 PM

Bill

I love my Jet 8” HH jointer. No complaints at all. It was easy to set up and get coplanar with precision. I did not know the PM was rated faster. No idea if that matters.

You should call PM/Jet support and ask a tech what they think. You get a person on the phone in a minute and they are helpful.

-- A severed foot is the ultimate stocking stuffer.

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jonah

2075 posts in 3718 days


#6 posted 08-01-2018 10:41 PM

Unless you’re avoiding using rough sawn lumber entirely, how can you live without a planer?

There are a few ways to do what a jointer does with other tools, but there’s only one other way to do what a planer does (lots of work with hand planes).

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builtinbkyn

2939 posts in 1360 days


#7 posted 08-01-2018 11:09 PM


Unless you re avoiding using rough sawn lumber entirely, how can you live without a planer?

There are a few ways to do what a jointer does with other tools, but there s only one other way to do what a planer does (lots of work with hand planes).

- jonah


Jonah, like all things in woodworking, there are quite a few ways to get from A to Z. And as you mentioned, there are different ways of jointing boards. There are also different methods for thinknessing (is that a word?) and flattening stock too. I have a band saw and a drum sander as well as hand planes for that. I also feel if I was unhappy with those methods, or needed quicker results, a simple lunchbox planer would probably do. But working with rough stock, a jointer is definitely your friend. You can get most of the way to usable stock with a table saw and a jointer. It’s much more difficult to do that with just a planer. It’s doable with a sled for the planer, but also more tedious. It’s also tougher to do that with smaller, thinner stock. At least that’s how I see it.

Brian that’s good to hear. The Jet is much less expensive then the others. There’s a local dealer nearby that has the Jet and the PMs on the floor. I’ll have to go and take a look at them. My only reservation with the Jet is, my bad experience with my purchase of a Jet 1221 lathe. I received a bad one and Jet really didn’t want to deal with the issue. Fortunately I purchased it from Amazon and they had no qualms with sending out a new one. The second was somewhat better, but I can see where their quality control is lacking.

AJ thanks for the info. I’m curious to know why you needed to replace the screws.

Thanks Larry. Machine shopping is never happy though, is it? lol It’s mostly stressful wondering what you’ll end up with. A bad machine isn’t unusual these days and it’s not like they’re easy to send back.

-- Bill, Yo!......in Brooklyn & Steel City :)

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pottz

5552 posts in 1404 days


#8 posted 08-01-2018 11:19 PM

bill sorry to hear about your bad experience with the jet lathe,i just bought one of there big heavy duty cold saws for use at my work,after 2 weeks it quit working,called jet and i was talking to someone in minutes,she got me a repairman out the next day and fixed the issue,a bad switch.so maybe i was lucky but ive had great service from them in my area.and i agree with you,id give up my planer way before the jointer.you can always buy finished lumber.

-- sawdust the bigger the pile the bigger my smile-larry,so cal.

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builtinbkyn

2939 posts in 1360 days


#9 posted 08-01-2018 11:32 PM

Larry you’re a shop and they understand you mean business :) Jet answered the calls and had techs on with me, but they didn’t want to be honest about the issue. After further research I discovered it wasn’t an anomaly. They were having issues with that lathe and were hoping they would just go away. Ah I guess a lot of these companies have been dealing with this stuff the same way in recent years as all of the manufacturing has gone offshore. So they really have little control and remedy here to deal with them. The tech just have to follow the company line.

Yeah I’ve been missing my jointer. It was just a Ridgid 6” jointer, but it is still missed.

-- Bill, Yo!......in Brooklyn & Steel City :)

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BroncoBrian

875 posts in 2378 days


#10 posted 08-01-2018 11:49 PM


My only reservation with the Jet is, my bad experience with my purchase of a Jet 1221 lathe. I received a bad one and Jet really didn t want to deal with the issue. Fortunately I purchased it from Amazon and they had no qualms with sending out a new one. The second was somewhat better, but I can see where their quality control is lacking.

- builtinbkyn

Makes sense. I would hesitate to say that Jet has anything to do with making a Lathe. They might have one with their name on it, but it seems to me that table saws, jointers, planers, and bandsaws are their core products. Their latest Drill Press offering is impressive as well. For the money it is great. If you don’t care about that and have space, the PM has longer tables.

-- A severed foot is the ultimate stocking stuffer.

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pottz

5552 posts in 1404 days


#11 posted 08-01-2018 11:56 PM

yeah that is one of the big problems is that its all made in china so they just hope the problem will get solved by us.at least jet answers the phone promptly-most put you on hold forever-hoping you’ll go away-lol.

-- sawdust the bigger the pile the bigger my smile-larry,so cal.

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BroncoBrian

875 posts in 2378 days


#12 posted 08-02-2018 12:51 AM

Yep. Jet/PM answer quickly and are never in a rush. I have asked setup questions and about blade tensioning and they are always happy to help.

I think with any big brand you have to determine what they are good at and what they white label because they are supposed to offer something.

-- A severed foot is the ultimate stocking stuffer.

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AHuxley

874 posts in 3741 days


#13 posted 08-02-2018 01:14 AM

In general the faster the speed (if the number of knives or spirals is the same) the better the finish for a given feedrate since like a shaper it comes down to knife marks per inch. The larger the cutterhead the smoother the finish also. I have a larger SLOWER jointer that will leave a better finish than either jointer in question but the cutter head diameter is much larger, it runs at 3600 rpm and is a DMD machine.

That said I think if you ask 10 long time woodworker if they had to live with just a jointer or a planer probably 9 would take the planer. While each is 1/3rd of the milling triangle the jointer is the one that is easiest to work around for most people.

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builtinbkyn

2939 posts in 1360 days


#14 posted 08-02-2018 01:38 AM


In general the faster the speed (if the number of knives or spirals is the same) the better the finish for a given feedrate since like a shaper it comes down to knife marks per inch. The larger the cutterhead the smoother the finish also. I have a larger SLOWER jointer that will leave a better finish than either jointer in question but the cutter head diameter is much larger, it runs at 3600 rpm and is a DMD machine.

That said I think if you ask 10 long time woodworker if they had to live with just a jointer or a planer probably 9 would take the planer. While each is 1/3rd of the milling triangle the jointer is the one that is easiest to work around for most people.

- AHuxley


As I understand it, the angle at which the knife hits the stock is important for achieving a better finish. So larger diameter means a shallower angle of cut. Lest chance for tear out and a more “polished” finish. I guess the faster cutter head speed can compensate for a smaller diameter cutter head, reducing the chance for tear out by having a knife edge come in quickly behind the last one. Just like those triple edge razors.

Funny, I read a lot of the threads and responses to the chicken/egg woodworking question – planer or jointer first. Planer seemed to come out on top. One reason I suspect is, flattening stock by hand isn’t only more time consuming, it’s more difficult for many to achieve good results – me included, though I’m getting better each time and actually enjoying it. But I also now have a drum sander to fall back on. Joint a board and then run the other side thru the sander. Having a jointer will allow me to quickly square up three edges and no messing with jigs at all. The other way around I can see taking more time. A twisted/cupped/bowed board and the process will be tedious with just a planer and a TS.

Ah maybe it’s six of one and half dozen of another. Besides stashing a lunchbox planer under my assembly bench wouldn’t be all that difficult :)

-- Bill, Yo!......in Brooklyn & Steel City :)

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Aj2

2321 posts in 2217 days


#15 posted 08-02-2018 03:55 AM

I also believe the larger diameter heads leave a better finish. But if you are set on a Insert Head I’m not sure it really matters.
Since there no playing around with the sharpness angle. Or effective cutting angle
This is a where straight knives shine.

-- Aj

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