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Forum topic by Sawdust2012 posted 07-08-2018 01:18 PM 913 views 0 times favorited 10 replies Add to Favorites Watch
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Sawdust2012

174 posts in 2131 days


07-08-2018 01:18 PM

Anyone out there know what could cause slow spin up on my saws, and an inability of the switch to engage on my Laguna Fusion TS? New house, and some funky wiring issues discovered, i.e, one wall of outlets in garage are tied to master bath GFCI at the other end of the house! I get roughly 120 vac on both hot to common, and hot to ground.


10 replies so far

View WhyMe's profile

WhyMe

1159 posts in 1980 days


#1 posted 07-08-2018 01:26 PM

Checking the voltage while under load is the only way to know if you are suffering extreme voltage drop which will cause motors to be slow starting. Have you tried different outlets to see if there is a difference?

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Sawdust2012

174 posts in 2131 days


#2 posted 07-08-2018 02:01 PM

Tried outlets on another circuit, and TS worked fine. I want to avoid using that one because it would require a long extension cord.

What would cause the voltage drop?

View Kazooman's profile

Kazooman

1325 posts in 2371 days


#3 posted 07-08-2018 02:12 PM

The garage outlets might have to be on a GFCI circuit to meet code and tacking them onto the existing circuit for the bath was a cheap solution. You could just add another breaker in the box if there is room.

If you do have a voltage drop problem, I would call the electricians who wired your new house and demand that they correct the situation.

View CaptainKlutz's profile (online now)

CaptainKlutz

1494 posts in 1913 days


#4 posted 07-08-2018 02:31 PM

Hmm..
GFCI outlets have finite lifespan. Some sources suggest that after 10 years they need to be replaced? Supposedly, the internal electronics will get slow to react, or not react at all. Since GFCI is required to be connected in master/slave wiring; if the internal resistance of GFCI has increased, it could be causing voltage drop issues. Cheap Asian made 15A GFCI are worst IMHO, have had a couple last only 5 years. Spend money on a decent name brand like Leviton, and even buy the heavy duty 20A commercial version if you can find them.

Had one house where my one and only garage outlet was wired at end of 2 bathrooms using same GFCI master outlet. All I had in garage was a battery charger for hand tools, but very time hair dryer in bathroom was used, or vacuum cleaner was plugged into bathroom; would blow breaker. Replacing the GFCI with HD version solved my problem.

As far as voltage drop: following standard NEC codes, voltage drop in standard 120Vac building wire will be within acceptable limits as long as wire run in less than ~130 feet from breaker. If more than 130 feet, recommendation for heavily loaded circuits is increase wire one size. Try pacing out distance between your breaker box, bathroom GFCI, and garage outlet. If it is more than 140 feet total, then may need to use a different circuit for saw.

Hate to add: Strange wiring/voltage issues have forced me to install sub-panels in two separate houses for garage even when all I needed was a couple of 120VAC 15A outlets.

Best Luck.

-- I'm an engineer not a woodworker, but I can randomly find useful tools and furniture inside a pile of lumber!

View Sawdust2012's profile

Sawdust2012

174 posts in 2131 days


#5 posted 07-08-2018 03:33 PM


The garage outlets might have to be on a GFCI circuit to meet code and tacking them onto the existing circuit for the bath was a cheap solution. You could just add another breaker in the box if there is room.

If you do have a voltage drop problem, I would call the electricians who wired your new house and demand that they correct the situation.

- Kazooman

Thanks Kazooman!

The house is about 30 yrs old, and probably older than the blind electrician who wired the circuit in question. There is a dedicated 220 / 15 amp circuit. Looks like I am going to retire the TS.

View Sawdust2012's profile

Sawdust2012

174 posts in 2131 days


#6 posted 07-08-2018 03:37 PM



Hmm..
GFCI outlets have finite lifespan. Some sources suggest that after 10 years they need to be replaced? Supposedly, the internal electronics will get slow to react, or not react at all. Since GFCI is required to be connected in master/slave wiring; if the internal resistance of GFCI has increased, it could be causing voltage drop issues. Cheap Asian made 15A GFCI are worst IMHO, have had a couple last only 5 years. Spend money on a decent name brand like Leviton, and even buy the heavy duty 20A commercial version if you can find them.

Had one house where my one and only garage outlet was wired at end of 2 bathrooms using same GFCI master outlet. All I had in garage was a battery charger for hand tools, but very time hair dryer in bathroom was used, or vacuum cleaner was plugged into bathroom; would blow breaker. Replacing the GFCI with HD version solved my problem.

As far as voltage drop: following standard NEC codes, voltage drop in standard 120Vac building wire will be within acceptable limits as long as wire run in less than ~130 feet from breaker. If more than 130 feet, recommendation for heavily loaded circuits is increase wire one size. Try pacing out distance between your breaker box, bathroom GFCI, and garage outlet. If it is more than 140 feet total, then may need to use a different circuit for saw.

Hate to add: Strange wiring/voltage issues have forced me to install sub-panels in two separate houses for garage even when all I needed was a couple of 120VAC 15A outlets.

Best Luck.

- CaptainKlutz

Thanks for your insight. I think there may be a combination of several problems of the “cheap way out” variety.

View Kazooman's profile

Kazooman

1325 posts in 2371 days


#7 posted 07-08-2018 03:57 PM

The garage outlets might have to be on a GFCI circuit to meet code and tacking them onto the existing circuit for the bath was a cheap solution. You could just add another breaker in the box if there is room.

If you do have a voltage drop problem, I would call the electricians who wired your new house and demand that they correct the situation.

- Kazooman

Thanks Kazooman!

The house is about 30 yrs old, and probably older than the blind electrician who wired the circuit in question. There is a dedicated 220 / 15 amp circuit. Looks like I am going to retire the TS.

- Sawdust2012

OH! New to YOU! I thought it was a new house. When I bought my house brand new (was built on spec) there were several funky wiring issues, one related to your GFCI problem. I thought you might have the same sort of issue I had.

Here is my crazy story. I had one dead outlet. I finally figured out that they had paneled over a box that was supposed to be an outlet on the adjacent wall. A live wire ran down into it and was not connected to the other wire that ran to the dead outlet. I could not see the box, I only figured this out by exploring the wiring up in the attic. I finally convinced the electrician that this was the problem. He cut both wires up in the attic and joined them in a junction box. All was well.

Except…..... the baths and one exterior outlet were all on one GFCI breaker. When that would trip the TV would turn off. It was located on the wall with the missing outlet. More investigation revealed that when they paneled over the one outlet they cut in another along that wall. They hooked it to the bathroom that was on the other side of the wall. The space between the walls was about one foot wide to accommodate plumbing vents. The wire from the TV outlet ran straight across this gap in mid air to the bathroom outlet. Not stapled down anywhere! I think the builder did that brilliant move, not the electrician. Trying to correct the mistake of the missing outlet on that wall.

View bigJohninvegas's profile

bigJohninvegas

632 posts in 1881 days


#8 posted 07-08-2018 04:15 PM

I had similar problems years ago in my home. I wound up adding two 110v, and a 220v circuit in my garage.
I had experienced the slow start up, but most of the time I just popped the GFI.
Turns out there are 10 outlets on the same circuit.
4 in the garage, 4 on the exterior of the house, and two in the laundry room. And one of the laundry room outlets had my deepfreezer plugged in to it.
I had to replace the GFI, but that did not help.
Since I brought dedicated power into the garage for the shop. I have had no issues.

-- John

View skidiot's profile

skidiot

85 posts in 4064 days


#9 posted 07-09-2018 04:38 AM

How old is the saw? I had the same issue with my planer and it turned out the brushes here worn out. Just a thought.

-- skidiot northern illinois

View TheFridge's profile

TheFridge

10858 posts in 1905 days


#10 posted 07-10-2018 12:28 AM


The garage outlets might have to be on a GFCI circuit to meet code and tacking them onto the existing circuit for the bath was a cheap solution. You could just add another breaker in the box if there is room.

If you do have a voltage drop problem, I would call the electricians who wired your new house and demand that they correct the situation.

- Kazooman

Thanks Kazooman!

The house is about 30 yrs old, and probably older than the blind electrician who wired the circuit in question. There is a dedicated 220 / 15 amp circuit. Looks like I am going to retire the TS.

- Sawdust2012

OH! New to YOU! I thought it was a new house. When I bought my house brand new (was built on spec) there were several funky wiring issues, one related to your GFCI problem. I thought you might have the same sort of issue I had.

Here is my crazy story. I had one dead outlet. I finally figured out that they had paneled over a box that was supposed to be an outlet on the adjacent wall. A live wire ran down into it and was not connected to the other wire that ran to the dead outlet. I could not see the box, I only figured this out by exploring the wiring up in the attic. I finally convinced the electrician that this was the problem. He cut both wires up in the attic and joined them in a junction box. All was well.

Except…..... the baths and one exterior outlet were all on one GFCI breaker. When that would trip the TV would turn off. It was located on the wall with the missing outlet. More investigation revealed that when they paneled over the one outlet they cut in another along that wall. They hooked it to the bathroom that was on the other side of the wall. The space between the walls was about one foot wide to accommodate plumbing vents. The wire from the TV outlet ran straight across this gap in mid air to the bathroom outlet. Not stapled down anywhere! I think the builder did that brilliant move, not the electrician. Trying to correct the mistake of the missing outlet on that wall.

- Kazooman

If they weren’t dumb they could’ve found the outlet by putting a straight edge along the wall. There will be a large bulge where the box is. Very common occurrence. Like a hole through the rock with a skinny screw driver and feel for wires and the inside of the box.

Could be the start cap on the motor.

-- Shooting down the walls of heartache. Bang bang. I am. The warrior.

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