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Forum topic by fromaway posted 06-26-2018 04:23 AM 1358 views 0 times favorited 10 replies Add to Favorites Watch
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fromaway

19 posts in 2401 days


06-26-2018 04:23 AM

Topic tags/keywords: woodturning finishing yorkshire grit ultra shine

I would be interested in hearing any comments/suggestions to the following.

Not that youtube content should be elevated to the realm of gospel but I have seen some videos showing a 3 step process consisting of sanding sealer followed by Yorkshire grit followed by wax before buffing.

Does anyone know if Shellawax Ultra Shine would be equivalent to Yorkshire grit?

The description of Ultra Shine states it’s a sealer as well as an abrasive. Would it’s application equate to the first 2 steps listed above?

My plan was to apply Ultra Shine followed by General Finishes water based Woodturner’s finish followed by buffing.

FYI … the project is Manitoba Maple burl and I’m looking to get a gloss finish.

Thanks in advance.

Cheers,
Bryan

-- Nothing is impossible for those that don't have to do it themselves


10 replies so far

View Lazyman's profile

Lazyman

3686 posts in 1838 days


#1 posted 06-26-2018 04:56 AM

I’ve never used either but I think that they are different things. My understanding is that the Yorkshire grit has an abrasive used to prepare the wood for a finish, sort of a last sanding step before applying a finish, while the Shellawax is a finish. Shellawax is called a friction polish because it sets and hardens due heat from polishing while the lathe is spinning. I’m not sure that the sanding sealer is necessary for most woods since I’ve never turned a burl, I cannot say if it would beneficial or not.

-- Nathan, TX -- Hire the lazy man. He may not do as much work but that's because he will find a better way.

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woodbutcherbynight

5967 posts in 2860 days


#2 posted 06-26-2018 05:12 AM

Shellawx ultra paste is much like Yorkshire grit.

Product description:

Use Ultra Shine as the last sanding step before applying your final finish (eg. Shellawax, Hut wax, etc.). You ll be amazed at the brilliant shine and superb blemish-free surface on your turning. Ultra Shine contains ultra fine abrasives (Tripoli powder) that will enhance a 240 grit sanding step to 1200 grit or more and enhances a 400 grit finish to 2000 grit! The higher grit abrasive you use before using Ultra Shine, the better your finish will be with no sanding marks. Eliminates sanding marks. Works wonders on both woods and plastics.

-- Live to tell the stories, they sound better that way.

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Wildwood

2693 posts in 2585 days


#3 posted 06-26-2018 10:26 AM

When comes to finishng a turning like to use the KISS method!

So would forget the Shellwax ultra shine and go straight to using Woodturners finish (WTF).

https://generalfinishes.com/wood-finishes-retail/water-based-topcoats-and-sanding-sealer/wood-turners-finish

I am big fan of Shellac whether using spray can, quart, or using flakes on a turning for deep gloss sheen.

https://www.rustoleum.com/product-catalog/consumer-brands/zinsser/interior-wood-finishes/bulls-eye-shellac/

-- Bill

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LeeMills

675 posts in 1752 days


#4 posted 06-26-2018 11:17 PM

The Yorkshire list the ingredients but I do not know all of the ingredients of EEE except that it contains tripoli. Tripoli is also called rottenstone.
So Yorkshire has pumice and rottenstone, pumice a courser abrasive and EEE has no pumice.
Yorkshire says to pre-sand to 240 where EEE says to pre-sand to 400 – 600.
With Yorkshire you are to use a sanding sealer prior to the product, not sure about the EEE.
Both have to be wiped clean of all residue before finishing. This is the residue of the paste you just applied.
Yorkshire states you can use any finish on top, EEE instructions say not to use some (like a lacquer).

I have not use either but I may try a shop made because I already have rottenstone and pumice from flat work in the 80’s.
Here is a link to Daniel Vilarino’s video, I think this was his latest batch with revised ingredients.
www.youtube.com/watch?v=zufgDTh3fis&t=29s

-- We cannot solve our problems with the same thinking we used when we created them. Albert Einstein

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mahdee

4291 posts in 2218 days


#5 posted 06-27-2018 01:46 AM

I had a customer who was willing to pay an extra $2000 on his dining room table to use this so called environmentally friendly finish (which consisted of mostly wax and no MSDS rating on the second part of the finish). When I pointed out to him that the product he had chosen was basically wax and god knows what it would take to refinish his construct several years down the road (maybe thousands of dollars later), he just went off on me. When I pointed out that the part 2 of the finish had no MSD description and it came from Mexico, he softened up a little. By then I was not interested in touching the project and told him to feel free to use my sketches to hire someone else.

-- earthartandfoods.com

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Wildwood

2693 posts in 2585 days


#6 posted 06-27-2018 01:13 PM

Shellawax nothing more than a friction shellac & wax finish. They recommend using EEE-Ultra Shine on top of that UP want to put Generals WTF on top of that.

http://www.rockler.com/eee-ultra-shine-woodturners-finish

https://www.thewoodwhisperer.com/articles/general-finishes-wood-turners-finish/

Wood Turner’s Finish is a water-oil urethane hybrid
Product SDS-WOOD-TURNERS-FINISH-GENERAL-FINISHES-US-HCS

https://generalfinishes.com/sites/default/files/documents/files/2018-06/SDS-Wood-Turners-Finish-General-Finishes-US-HCS-2012-v4.7-2018-05-15.pdf

If look at section 3 of product SDS/MSDS does not all ingredients listed but essentially a water based oil/varnish blend.

Manufacturers do not have to list all ingredients in section 3 of MSDS or SDS as seen on WTF and many other safety data sheets. Section 3 supposed to list all toxic ingredients by law but you can read weasel clause below section 3.

Friction finishes very easy and fast to apply on the lathe, many shellac/wax or lacquer products on the market. Depending upon shellac product may see some fade back of gloss over time with use. Products like EEE may or may not add to finish durability.

Oil varnish blends including waterbase products also easy to apply on the lathe. Based upon ingredients may get a nice sheen but as noted WTF imparts an amber hue similar to oil finishes.

Considering cost of Shellwax & EEE-ULTRA-SHINE then adding WTF make sense?

WTF by itself will do pretty nice job of it. Clear shellac and or lacquer film finishes just as easy to apply and more durable then other products we are dicussing.

Which finish to use a personal decision also use of the turned item. If going to have food contact see my blog and link. If merely decorative or constant use have lot of options.

-- Bill

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OSU55

2380 posts in 2440 days


#7 posted 06-27-2018 02:49 PM

When I want a gloss showroom finish on a turning, I spray it then finish sand/polish on the lathe. You want all small defects filled, but I dont fill larger defects – just depends on the piece. Lacquer, precat lacquer, shellac, and wb finishes all work well depends on the use of the turning and the finisher’s preference. I like to use wb topcoats with shellac under to provide chatoyance. If the piece will have unfilled voids or defects I use a satin sheen then polish to a gloss. The unpolished surfaces then dont have that glossy sheen.

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Rich

4693 posts in 1040 days


#8 posted 06-27-2018 04:44 PM


If going to have food contact see my blog and link. If merely decorative or constant use have lot of options.

- Wildwood

Here we go again…

I respect that some have passionate feelings about things like this, but it doesn’t make it true. I posted this to the Danish Oil thread where disinformation was also being spread about the dangers of solvents in finishes and contact with food:

——————————————

They’re solvents. They evaporate. They are listed on safety sheets because they can be harmful to the person applying the finish. That’s why we wear respirators when we apply volatile finishes. They are not a danger once the finish is fully cured.

Don’t you think that if a mainstream product like GF salad bowl finish could cause any harm, we’d have heard about it? It’s been around for years. It, and products like it, are used on countless wooden food service products that are sold commercially.

Consider this from a well-known finishing authority:

In fact, all finishes are safe to eat off of or be chewed on once the finish has fully cured. The rule of thumb for curing is 30 days, but warm conditions make curing happen faster. With all solvent-based finishes, you can determine that a finish has cured sufficiently by pressing your nose against the dry finish and sniffing. If there is any odor, the finish isn’t yet cured. Only if you can’t smell anything is the object safe for food or mouth contact.

Flexner, Bob. Understanding Wood Finishing: How to Select and Apply the Right Finish (American Woodworker) (p. 76). Fox Chapel Publishing. Kindle Edition.

And this:

■ No Material Safety Data Sheet (MSDS), required by the government to list all hazardous or toxic effects of a product, warns against contact with food or children’s mouths for any oil or varnish finish, or for any other finish.

■ The Food and Drug Administration (FDA) lists all common driers as safe for food contact as long as the finish is made properly— that is, as long as the finish cures. (The FDA doesn’t “approve” of finishes as some manufacturers claim. The FDA approves of ingredients and sets rules for testing that a finish cures properly.)

■ You have never heard of anyone (adult or child) being poisoned by contact with a cured clear finish. If someone had been poisoned, you can bet it would have made the news!

Let’s finally put this myth to bed and use other, more legitimate, criteria for choosing a finish.

Flexner, Bob. Understanding Wood Finishing: How to Select and Apply the Right Finish (American Woodworker) (p. 76). Fox Chapel Publishing. Kindle Edition.

-- My grandfather always said that when one door closes, another one opens. He was a wonderful man, but a lousy cabinet maker

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OSU55

2380 posts in 2440 days


#9 posted 06-27-2018 07:50 PM

Agree cured finishes are food safe. Why anyone would put a film finish on anything that will have forks or knives used on the surface is beyond my comprehension. It will look ugly as hell all scratched and cut up, but it wont be a health hazard.

View Rich's profile (online now)

Rich

4693 posts in 1040 days


#10 posted 06-27-2018 07:58 PM


Agree cured finishes are food safe. Why anyone would put a film finish on anything that will have forks or knives used on the surface is beyond my comprehension. It will look ugly as hell all scratched and cut up, but it wont be a health hazard.

- OSU55

Absolutely. I’ve responded to questions about cutting board finishes so many times I’ve lost count. Even the GF page for their salad bowl finish says not to use it on surfaces that will be used for cutting. It’ll look like junk in no time.

-- My grandfather always said that when one door closes, another one opens. He was a wonderful man, but a lousy cabinet maker

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