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Murphy Style Dining Table

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Forum topic by lambinHI posted 05-09-2018 08:02 PM 934 views 0 times favorited 11 replies Add to Favorites Watch
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lambinHI

4 posts in 579 days


05-09-2018 08:02 PM

Topic tags/keywords: question

I’m trying to build a murphy style dining room table. I recently built a wall-mounted folding table (see pictures) but I’m concerned about the safety of putting the table up and down. I’m also concerned about the latch failing and the table opening up unexpectedly. To resolve the safety issue, I’m thinking a murphy style system might work… box (frame) out the table and the bench seats and use gas struts to ensure the table opened slowly.

I’ve included a photo of how I’d like this to work…minus the bed frame. Substitute the bed frame for a (nominal) 1” board. I want the struts to stay behind the pivot hinge in the frame.

Three questions.

1. Does anyone know where I can find individual components, i.e. gas struts and a variety of pivot hinges? (I’ve seen the hardware kits for murphy beds but I don’t need the “legs” in the hardware kit.)

2. How would I determine the tpye/size of gas strut needed?

3. What are some of the challenges I’ll face when constructing the table as described? I’m a novice and I’ve had someone ask me to build one of these tables for their family…thus the post. Safety is my biggest concern but I want the table to be functional (work properly) too.

In advance, thanks for any and all constructive comments.


11 replies so far

View John Smith's profile

John Smith

2083 posts in 724 days


#1 posted 05-10-2018 12:47 AM

Lambin – oddly enough, I just went through this similar scenairio for my Steamer Trunk.
I had zero clue as what to look for. the first two CHEAP ones I bought are falling apart.
after doing the research and comparison, I have gained some knowledge in these things.
first of all, all struts are not the same. they come in different lengths and weight lift capacity.
the mounting bracket is basically the same: a 10mm ball and socket. (which is a good thing).
once you get your table all put together, that is the time to figure out what size struts you need.
look at different struts on cars that have a liftgate hatch for notes.
there is a company on E-Bay that sells the struts you need. Strut-Your-Stuff

.

.

-- I am a painter. That's what I do. I paint things --

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BFamous

322 posts in 682 days


#2 posted 05-10-2018 03:23 AM

To determine the strut strength, first you’re going to need to determine the force needed to allow the table to drop slowly. Too little strength, it’ll still drop quick. Too much strength and you’ll be having to put a latch on the floor to hold the table down.

Also, how are you planning on mounting the strut to the wall? It better be in studs, or blocking because drywall won’t hold up the table.

I’d actually try to solve the issue a different way.
1. Incorporate a more reliable/larger latch mechanism to reduce the chance of it failing.
2. Maybe use spring loaded hinges instead of struts. Replace the 8 hinges you have with spring loaded ones and you should slow down the initial fall rate of the table, though it could still pick up speed after it hits 45 degrees and the leverage is greater.

Just some ideas…

-- Brian Famous :: Charlotte, NC :: http://www.FamousArtisan.com

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Loren

10477 posts in 4210 days


#3 posted 05-10-2018 03:31 AM

I built a murphy bed recently and I was surprised
at how delicate the balance point was. It had
a bunch of springs and we had to remove 2 on
either side to get it just right where it would
stay on the floor when open.

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lambinHI

4 posts in 579 days


#4 posted 05-10-2018 07:24 PM

John, BFamous, and Loren,

Thanks for the feedback. I appreciate your time and thoughts.

BFamous,

I was going to follow the last picture in the original post and mount the struts to the frame. The frame would be mounted to a block wall or studs.

With Aloha,

Lee

View John Smith's profile

John Smith

2083 posts in 724 days


#5 posted 05-11-2018 12:09 PM

Lee – I looked at the website listed in your profile.
are you making this table project for yourself, someone else or to sell ?

and – stay away from Kilauea ~ it can mess you up bad.

.
I am having a hard time envisioning struts between the frame and table.
if you do go this route, you will probably have a 2 or 3” space between
the wall and table, which would be great for small shelves for tableware
such as spices, condiments, etc.
I can see the spring loaded hinges that Loren talks about being more appropriate.
they could probably be through-bolted with small carriage style bolts instead of 5/8” screws.
I can see the side benches definitely need a center brace that is easily attached
the same way as the end supports. (and make room for the condiment and spice rack against the wall).
very clever idea !! this plan could easily be adapted for an RV camper, small cabin, big boat,
or someones back patio. Hope you make a project out of it and post photos as you go along.

I just bought a small house and table space is pretty limited in the living room filled with large furniture.
I have a lot of Florida Cypress boards that have been air drying for 2 years and now I am starting
to see the wood being used for this project. Thanks for posting !!!

.

-- I am a painter. That's what I do. I paint things --

View Lazyman's profile

Lazyman

4180 posts in 1949 days


#6 posted 05-11-2018 12:36 PM

If you can figure out how this is made and make something similar, you won’t have to worry about it falling on someone.
https://rockpaperrobot.com/collections/frontpage/products/ollie-table-1
I haven’t quite figured out how it moves up the wall with nothing up the wall to support it. The only thing that makes sense to me is some sort of telescoping supports up the wall?

-- Nathan, TX -- Hire the lazy man. He may not do as much work but that's because he will find a better way.

View BFamous's profile

BFamous

322 posts in 682 days


#7 posted 05-11-2018 12:57 PM


If you can figure out how this is made and make something similar, you won t have to worry about it falling on someone.
https://rockpaperrobot.com/collections/frontpage/products/ollie-table-1
I haven t quite figured out how it moves up the wall with nothing up the wall to support it. The only thing that makes sense to me is some sort of telescoping supports up the wall?

- Lazyman

THAT is AWESOME.
How the slats don’t just roll back over as they go up the wall is a mystery to me as well. I NEED to understand how this works… I could use this concept in my garage/shop for more horizontal work space

-- Brian Famous :: Charlotte, NC :: http://www.FamousArtisan.com

View John Smith's profile

John Smith

2083 posts in 724 days


#8 posted 05-11-2018 01:21 PM

Lazy – I am thinking the Ollie Table telescoping design (patent pending) is sort of like
the tambour cover on a roll-top desk. I saw a similar design on a Toyota Tundra made of
aluminum slats that covered the truck bed that had a motor to extend and retract it.
I am thinking that since the Ollie Builder mentioned “magnetized” in his other items,
I am willing to make a wager that strong Earth Magnets may somehow be involved in some
of their futuristic furniture designs such as this. (and anyone with a pacemaker should be warned).

.
but I really, REALLY like Lee’s all wood pull down table that is stored in a box idea better !!!
.

-- I am a painter. That's what I do. I paint things --

View Lazyman's profile

Lazyman

4180 posts in 1949 days


#9 posted 05-11-2018 01:50 PM


THAT is AWESOME.
How the slats don t just roll back over as they go up the wall is a mystery to me as well. I NEED to understand how this works… I could use this concept in my garage/shop for more horizontal work space

- BFamous

The other mystery is the horizontal support. There has to be some sort of telescoping support under the table as well. A poor man’s version could be made using this plan which is an adaptation of a Popular Woodworking design. A foldable top for it could be pretty easy to make and could even be made with hinges so that it folds up flat against the wall when you push it in.

-- Nathan, TX -- Hire the lazy man. He may not do as much work but that's because he will find a better way.

View BFamous's profile

BFamous

322 posts in 682 days


#10 posted 05-11-2018 01:57 PM


THAT is AWESOME.
How the slats don t just roll back over as they go up the wall is a mystery to me as well. I NEED to understand how this works… I could use this concept in my garage/shop for more horizontal work space

- BFamous

The other mystery is the horizontal support. There has to be some sort of telescoping support under the table as well. A poor man s version could be made using this plan which is an adaptation of a Popular Woodworking design. A foldable top for it could be pretty easy to make and could even be made with hinges so that it folds up flat against the wall when you push it in.

- Lazyman


I can (kind of) understand the horizontal support, as I’m assuming the hinge mechanisms just do not allow it to fold past the parallel mark. But when they go up the wall, they should have the opportunity to roll forward since the hinges obviously allow flexing in that direction as the slats go from horizontal to vertical.

So far, the best thing I can think of is that there is some latch near the corner that unlocks/locks the hinges as they enter and leave the corner. But I can’t actually picture how that would work, and I assume there has to be a better solution, such as some form of cable or chain maintaining tension.

-- Brian Famous :: Charlotte, NC :: http://www.FamousArtisan.com

View lambinHI's profile

lambinHI

4 posts in 579 days


#11 posted 05-11-2018 09:02 PM



Lee – I looked at the website listed in your profile.
are you making this table project for yourself, someone else or to sell ?

and – stay away from Kilauea ~ it can mess you up bad.

I just bought a small house and table space is pretty limited in the living room filled with large furniture.
I have a lot of Florida Cypress boards that have been air drying for 2 years and now I am starting
to see the wood being used for this project. Thanks for posting !!!

.

- John Smith

The original photo is the Poplar table I installed in my apartment. I’m trying to lock down a safe design before I go retail. My risk aversion for others is not the same as it is for myself/family.

I’ll definitely keep you posted on the progress. Also, for what it’s worth, I’m playing around with an accordion design as well. I’d like to lock down one or two concepts before I go “public.”

PS – sorry the website wasn’t much to look at. Just put it up the other day and I’ll add content once I get closer to proof of concept.

Mahalo for all the input. And yes, Kilaeaua is not to be trifled with.

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