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Longevity of compact cup hinges for face frame cabs ?

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Forum topic by kdr152004 posted 04-30-2018 08:01 PM 562 views 0 times favorited 13 replies Add to Favorites Watch
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kdr152004

29 posts in 1205 days


04-30-2018 08:01 PM

Hi all,

Can anyone attest to the durability/longevity of the compact euro hinges that attach directly to the face frame, e.g. Blum model 38N , as opposed to shimming out the side and using a more traditional euro hinge with a mounting plate ?

I was planning to install the 38N’s on my current job due to the afforability and high reviews on Amazon. However, some highly respected denounce their use on face frames (e.g. Greg Paolini’s ‘Cabinets Made Simple’), and say that shimming out the sides and attaching the traditional euro style cup hinges is a stronger solution.

It would seem that as long as the faceframes don’t overhang the inside side by too much , not more than about half an inch, the opening and closing cycles cannot transmit much twisting force onto the faceframe stiles.

Any thoughts much appreciated


13 replies so far

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Loren

10477 posts in 4070 days


#1 posted 04-30-2018 08:58 PM

I think it’s because the screws loosen over
time. The hinge may hold up but if it starts
to move around on a loose screw then you
have a problem.

Don’t use soft woods for shimming cup hinge
mount plates flush either. Don’t ask how
I know. Shimming also allows you to put a
longer screw in. Poggenpohl and other high
end frameless builders use those 5mm Euro
screws or the expanding plug hinges. Speed
is one reason, but I also think they’ve got it
down to a science and they know these
methods hold up.

If it’s stuff for yourself or family members
feel free to experiment but you don’t want
to give an open-ended warranty to a client
and have them calling you back because a
few hinges have gone loosey-goosey. You
may think you can tell them to tighten the
screws and maybe that will work once or
twice but in times the threads cut in the
face frame by the screw may get sloppy
and then the holes will have to be plugged
and re-drilled. New hinges are cheap if a
spring breaks and fixing stripped screw holes
outside the workshop is a pita, imo. Are
you going to glue a plug in there and go
to lunch and drill the hole after? Fine, but
it still eats up half a day making such a
house call.

Perhaps there are better face frame cup hinges
on the market than the ones I’ve used a
few times.

YMMV.

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kdr152004

29 posts in 1205 days


#2 posted 05-01-2018 05:26 PM

Thanks for these ideas Loren.

Based on the popularity and high reviews of the 38N, I’m going to give them a shot, but I will design the face frames to only overhand the cab sides on the inside by about a quarter inch – thus the cab side will support the face frame when the opening force is transferred onto the stile (close force is trivial since they’re soft close)

I’ve personally observed that when the faceframes overhang the cab sides (on the inside) by about an inch, every time the door is opened, the compact euro hinges transfer a twisting force onto the face frame stiles, and you can see the stiles move – it’s a bit un-nerving.

View jerkylips's profile

jerkylips

495 posts in 2993 days


#3 posted 05-01-2018 05:32 PM

had those hinges on cabinets in an apartment years ago – brand new building, so we were the first to use them – within probably a little more than a year, every time I’d open a cabinet door, it would pop off the hinge. I hated the rental company anyway, so I just got some silicone & made them permanent – but we had LOTS of issues with them.

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waho6o9

8680 posts in 2999 days


#4 posted 05-01-2018 05:36 PM

I like to block out the inside of the hinge as well and for the same reasons stated above.

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kdr152004

29 posts in 1205 days


#5 posted 05-07-2018 04:53 PM

thanks for the picture – next project, I will go with a mounting plate like that

View Rich's profile

Rich

4583 posts in 1012 days


#6 posted 05-07-2018 05:45 PM

If you mount them properly then the compact hinges will be just as durable as the full size with the adapter plate. For starters, use adequate fasteners. That would be #8 screws that are as long as your face frame will allow. Any face frame will let you go in 1”, probably most can accommodate a 1-1/2” or longer screw. The smaller #6×5/8 are for screwing the cup to the door. Also on taller sections of the cabinet like the uppers, use three hinges. The shorter doors like those under the sink are fine with two.

-- Knowledge is not skill. Knowledge plus ten thousand times is skill. -- Shinichi Suzuki

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kdr152004

29 posts in 1205 days


#7 posted 05-08-2018 01:43 AM

Appreciate it Rich, I just bought some #8 , 1’’ long, fine thread, pan head, sheet metal screws for the hinges – phew that’s a mouth full

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AlaskaGuy

5317 posts in 2732 days


#8 posted 05-08-2018 04:27 AM

The thing I don’t like about the Blum compact hinge is the door gap. Door gap mean that the hinge side of the door wont lay real close to the face frame. There will be a fairly good gap. To me it’s objectionable. Your mileage may vary.

Like Rich says, I believe with proper instillation the should last fine.

-- Alaskan's for Global warming!

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Rich

4583 posts in 1012 days


#9 posted 05-08-2018 05:24 AM


The thing I don t like about the Blum compact hinge is the door gap. Door gap mean that the hinge side of the door wont lay real close to the face frame. There will be a fairly good gap. To me it s objectionable. Your mileage may vary.

Like Rich says, I believe with proper instillation the should last fine.

- AlaskaGuy

I believe that the 38N type hinge screws into the edge of the face frame, not the face. I don’t have a good graphic, and could be wrong, but I’m looking at the Grass America compacts on some cabinets in my house and that’s how they are mounted.

-- Knowledge is not skill. Knowledge plus ten thousand times is skill. -- Shinichi Suzuki

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AlaskaGuy

5317 posts in 2732 days


#10 posted 05-08-2018 05:45 AM


The thing I don t like about the Blum compact hinge is the door gap. Door gap mean that the hinge side of the door wont lay real close to the face frame. There will be a fairly good gap. To me it s objectionable. Your mileage may vary.

Like Rich says, I believe with proper instillation the should last fine.

- AlaskaGuy

I believe that the 38N type hinge screws into the edge of the face frame, not the face. I don t have a good graphic, and could be wrong, but I m looking at the Grass America compacts on some cabinets in my house and that s how they are mounted.

- Rich

I very well could be looking at the wrong hinge. I do remember reading a lot of complaints on the door gap issue on some of the Blum compact hinges. I guess I need to look closer. At any rate if I was the OP I’d make sure if there is a door gap issue. Of course that may no even an issue for him.

-- Alaskan's for Global warming!

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AlaskaGuy

5317 posts in 2732 days


#11 posted 05-08-2018 05:59 AM

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TungOil

1274 posts in 917 days


#12 posted 05-09-2018 12:56 AM

I’ve been using the 38N and the older version with the separate mounting plate for years without issues. But like anything if they are abused they are going to fail. I think the biggest risk with these is that they only open 105 deg. If someone over opens a door you risk damaging the hinge, splitting the FF or pulling out the screws. The soft close feature is nice.

-- The optimist says "the glass is half full". The pessimist says "the glass is half empty". The engineer says "the glass is twice as big as it needs to be"

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kdr152004

29 posts in 1205 days


#13 posted 05-21-2018 07:48 PM

Well, just installed the 38Ns on 12 cabinet doors using 1’’ pan head screws, 2 hinges on small doors, 3 hinges on larger doors. They all look and function great. Thanks all for the guidance

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