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Add a Thien Baffle to a Woodcraft trash can separator lid

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Forum topic by Brett posted 03-28-2018 12:12 PM 1443 views 0 times favorited 15 replies Add to Favorites Watch
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Brett

56 posts in 615 days


03-28-2018 12:12 PM

Hey all.

I recently purchased a Woodcraft trashcan separator lid like this one.

It works ok at best. I was planing some boards the other day and noticed my back on my HF dust collector was half full! I checked the trash can and it was only about half full too. I’d like to be able to fill the trash can up more so I was thinking of adding a Thien Baffle to the lid pictured above. I’ve seen and read on the net where folks have done similar things to these types of lids.

My question is, does it matter that the inlet connected to the DC motor is offset on the side? Would I need to cut a new whole in the middle of the lid instead and seal up the one that does not have the 90 elbow on it? Has anyone experimented with this? I want to make sure I add the baffle and the lid is as efficient as it can be.

Any assistance would be greatly appreciated.
Thanks!


15 replies so far

View ppg677's profile

ppg677

216 posts in 1279 days


#1 posted 03-28-2018 12:25 PM

I use this set up.

Yeah, if you don’t empty the trash can before it fills up, the intake screen on the HF dust collector gets clogged.

Empty the trash can, keep the screen clear and the setup works well for me.

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ppg677

216 posts in 1279 days


#2 posted 03-28-2018 12:26 PM

Also I think the elbow is important. Though I forget if the elbow connects to the air inlet or outlet (to DC inlet).

View Brett's profile

Brett

56 posts in 615 days


#3 posted 03-28-2018 12:32 PM



Also I think the elbow is important. Though I forget if the elbow connects to the air inlet or outlet (to DC inlet).

- ppg677

The elbow is connected to the inlet where the dust comes into the can (so it will swirl around). I have it set up correctly, I just don’t want to have to empty my can when it’s only half 1/4 to 1/2 full.

View bondogaposis's profile

bondogaposis

5457 posts in 2774 days


#4 posted 03-28-2018 12:38 PM

I have a Thien baffle on my trash can and once the can is 1/3 full the efficiency drops way off and the chips move through the collector. I don’t think you will gain much from your current set up. Just empty you bin frequently. For me it seems if I empty it once a week is adequate, unless I am doing a lot of planing.

-- Bondo Gaposis

View Oldtool's profile

Oldtool

2779 posts in 2613 days


#5 posted 03-28-2018 12:45 PM

Wish I could help you with this but I had a Rockler version of your lid, mine came with a blue canester too though, but I found it to be more of a bother than it was worth, so I now just go straight to my DC (aka Shop Vac) and empty it as needed & knock the filter against something to remove the debris from the clogged paper pleats each emptying. This method has actually been more efficient for me.

-- "I am a firm believer in the people. If given the truth, they can be depended upon to meet any national crisis. The point is to bring them the real facts." - Abraham Lincoln

View eflanders's profile

eflanders

326 posts in 2273 days


#6 posted 03-28-2018 12:54 PM

I have the Thein baffle separator on both of my DC units. As another has already said there is no way to add capacity to the bin you are using. Adding the baffle only aids in fine dust separation but does nothing to add to capacity. I have asked on here if going to the SD cyclone adds to the current bin capacity but I did not get any answers. With my setup, once the bin is about half full, the accumulating dust starts to go into the bag.

View Brett's profile

Brett

56 posts in 615 days


#7 posted 03-28-2018 12:56 PM

Thanks for the answers all. I guess I’ll still give the baffle a try and do some experimenting. Can’t hurt anything.

View jimintx's profile

jimintx

917 posts in 2007 days


#8 posted 03-28-2018 01:18 PM

Adding a baffle to under this lid with the nozzle tubes as they are, should directionally improve the separation, but perhaps not as much as if you had the outlet centered above the baffle. I defintely agree that giving the baffle a try is good exercise.

The standard lid you have achieves some separation between the inlet and the outlet by putting the outlet further away from the inlet, near the opposite wall of the vessel. The baffle itself is also achieving separation between the inlet and the outlet.

Adding a baffle under the lid device, is an effort to reduce particles that pass back up and out with the exiting air flow. The purpose of the baffle is primarily to reduce the effect of the the vortex stirring up the particles in the bottom of the container, so that they become entrained in the exiting air.

A way to collect more in the separator can, would be to have a taller vessel that resulted in the lid and its separation features being further above the particle bed. If you improve separation by any means, then you will find that the can reaches its maximum particle depth at a faster rate. If you don’t empty it, you see more of the particles going back into the outlet to the DC, just as you say it does now. You will likely achieve a somewhat deeper particle bed before the dust begins going out with the air, but you will still have to stop and empty it once it reaches its max depth, which will still be well below the top.

It seems there is an open question, really, as to whether or not this separator addition is worth it when using a full size dust collector with a large collection bag. They are a nice addition to using a shop vacuum were it is easy to plug the filter quickly. Either way, they likely take up floor space and/or complicate shop arrangement, in many situations.

-- Jim, Houston, TX

View Tony1212's profile

Tony1212

321 posts in 2157 days


#9 posted 03-28-2018 02:10 PM

I’ve always been skeptical of these lids, even with a Thien baffle.

The whole idea is to direct the incoming dust to travel around the circumference of the inside of the container, much like a marble rotates around a roulette wheel. The friction between the dust and the container’s wall should slow the dust down so that it falls into the container rather than get sucked up by the DC.

These lids put the DC intake right along the dust’s path. That’s why Thien’s design (as well as conical cyclone designs) put the DC intake in the middle. Well away from the dust’s path.

The actual baffle part of the Thien baffle is to keep the dust that has fallen into the container in container, not stirred up by the rotating airflow above the baffle.

-- Tony, SW Chicago Suburbs

View lew's profile

lew

12810 posts in 4178 days


#10 posted 03-28-2018 07:45 PM

I have the identical lid. I added a Thien baffle. Unless I forget to check the shavings level in the trash can, the dust collector bag stays virtually empty.

-- Lew- Time traveler. Purveyor of the Universe's finest custom rolling pins.

View jimintx's profile

jimintx

917 posts in 2007 days


#11 posted 03-28-2018 09:13 PM

lew, that sounds like it is adding a good separation stage for you. About how high up do you let it get in the can until you empty the can?

-- Jim, Houston, TX

View Brett's profile

Brett

56 posts in 615 days


#12 posted 03-28-2018 09:16 PM


I have the identical lid. I added a Thien baffle. Unless I forget to check the shavings level in the trash can, the dust collector bag stays virtually empty.

- lew

Lew,
I’m addition to Jim’s question, did you modify it at all in order to put the airflow out of the separator in the middle of the lid or does it make a difference? Mind sending me some pics of your modifications?
Thanks

View lew's profile

lew

12810 posts in 4178 days


#13 posted 03-29-2018 03:36 PM

Tooks some pix of what I have. Hope they answer your questions-

The green tape marks the port directly connected to the dust collector

-- Lew- Time traveler. Purveyor of the Universe's finest custom rolling pins.

View johnstoneb's profile

johnstoneb

3117 posts in 2595 days


#14 posted 03-29-2018 03:41 PM

I have basically what lew posted and works well. When trashcan gets about 1/2 full it starts to cycle on thru to dust collector so have to watch level in trash can especially when planing.

-- Bruce, Boise, ID

View Brett's profile

Brett

56 posts in 615 days


#15 posted 03-29-2018 04:22 PM

Thanks for the pictures. Helps a lot!

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