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Forum topic by Wood_smith posted 04-13-2010 02:28 AM 3086 views 0 times favorited 28 replies Add to Favorites Watch
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261 posts in 3795 days

04-13-2010 02:28 AM

I’m really p.o.’ed.. A lot of you good folks on here have been checking my pouches and my website, giving me great constructive advice. So, if i may let off a little steam…

Last September, I sent Lee Valley Tools (a high-end tool company, similar to Garrett Wade, in fact their websites and catalogs are very similar- ) one of my plywood pouches. Late September they e-mailed me and said they were interested in my products and wanted to discuss price. I replied, saying I was flexible and gave a couple of phone numbers, etc.

I never heard back until almost mid-November. Now they decided they aren’t interested anymore, thank you for your time, blah, blah.

Today I get their latest monthly catalog in the mail and I see they’re selling a “Cargo Liner” for putting in the back of a car or truck, to carry soil, plants, compost, etc. It’s made of heavy silver woven poly (hmm, sounds familiar).

Okay, maybe it’s not identical to a Kerry-All Pouch, but it’s awfully coincidental. I’ll post a picture of it in my projects (with proper credit to the photo source, of course.).

Anyway, thanks, I just wanted to get this off my chest…

-- Lloyd Kerry; creator of the Kerry-All Pouch,

28 replies so far

View Michael Murphy's profile

Michael Murphy

454 posts in 3775 days

#1 posted 04-13-2010 02:52 AM

Unless you are protected by a patent, don’t be sending stuff to a vendor or maufacturer. You’ll get ripped off. Even if you have it patented, you have to go after them, which costs big bucks in legal fees. Don’t give away ideas.

Except of course on the Lumberjocks site.

You might get back in touch and tell them you noticed the similarity between your submital and their product to let them know you are aware of it and may take future action. If it takes off, product wise, you may be able to leverage something out of them.

-- Michael Murphy, Woodland, CA.

View Dark_Lightning's profile


4096 posts in 3879 days

#2 posted 04-13-2010 03:01 AM

IIRC, most of what you make is protected by copyright, to some extent. I think that if you were to sue, and could show dramatic similarity in the two products, you might have a shot. Guess you could buy one and make the comparisons. Even with patents, there are all kinds of weasel-arounds. I had a friend with over four dozen patents to his name, all chemicals. Competitors would change the formulation just enough to have a distinct product and evade the patent suit while getting the performance. Pretty frustrating.

-- Steven.......Random Orbital Nailer

View Wood_smith's profile


261 posts in 3795 days

#3 posted 04-13-2010 03:04 AM

Good points.. a step learning curve I’m on. At least mine is made in Canada, and since they always say that in their catalog, their product is probably made in China.
Like my website says: Buy North American!

-- Lloyd Kerry; creator of the Kerry-All Pouch,

View a1Jim's profile


118065 posts in 4347 days

#4 posted 04-13-2010 03:07 AM

Sorry about that, it makes me feel differently about lee valley products when they have done something like that.


View russv's profile


262 posts in 3939 days

#5 posted 04-13-2010 05:29 AM

i don’t get it.
they make a liner to protect the inside of the vehicle (or bed of the truck), you make pouches to protect products from the weather. where is the similarity (besides color)?


-- where to go because you don't want no stinking plastic!

View TopamaxSurvivor's profile


19230 posts in 4446 days

#6 posted 04-13-2010 06:33 AM

It should be quite obvious to the most casual observer. I like to do business with honest ethical companies and people. Too bad they are getting almost impossible to find. I agree with Jim, if that is the way Lee Valley has to make it in this world, they can make it without me. Not that they’ll miss the few $$ I spend there.

-- Bob in WW ~ "some old things are lovely, warm still with life ... of the forgotten men who made them." - D.H. Lawrence

View Luke's profile


546 posts in 4064 days

#7 posted 04-13-2010 07:05 AM

You should watch a movie called flash of genius that came out two years ago. It’s very helpful and let me know how things could work if you don’t watch yourself. It’s a dog eat dog world to some people and it sucks that it’s that way. If I were them I would have just consulted with you on making the item and been okay with the smaller portion of the profits the way they are with all their other tools. Greed. Of course the story here is so vague you never know what could have happened. It looks really suspicious for sure. The guy in the movie has to actually go to the trouble to show how his idea gets stolen. It’s quite sad how the judicial system works out sometimes when the answer seems to be right in front of your nose, but without it there would be great many atrocities. Sorry man.

-- LAS,

View Wintersedge's profile


83 posts in 3743 days

#8 posted 04-13-2010 07:17 AM

That is sad.. Lee Valley prides themselves on their innovative tools.

I would contact their legal department.. maybe it was just one smuck there who tried to pawn your idea off as their own. If not, shame them into fixing this.

Btw, very slick idea on the pouch. Have you thought about going to the RD departments at Lowes, HD, and Menards?

-- Motivation alone is not enough. If you have an idiot and you motivate him, now you have a motivated idiot.

View OutPutter's profile


1199 posts in 4760 days

#9 posted 04-13-2010 07:27 AM

Hi Lloyd. I saw your other post but this adds a new twist. I don’t have a lot of experience in plastics but I do have some experience in consumer goods. I’m guessing that the turnaround on a new product like the Lee Valley bed liner is going to be in the the 12-18 month range. Even if there was a huge rush job done on it, you would still need to subtract at least two months from the date you got your catalog for the turnaround on the printing and delivery of the catalog. That leaves a window for them from September to around February or about five months. That’s pretty quick for anything let alone something that complex especially in a large organization like Lee Valley. I hope you don’t take this the wrong way but I’m going to suggest that the person from Lee Valley was really telling you that because they had something similar in the pipeline, they weren’t interested in your pouch.

I still think they’ll soon loose interest in their product and you will be able to make whatever you want out of yours.

Best of luck,

-- Jim

View 308Gap's profile


337 posts in 3773 days

#10 posted 04-13-2010 07:39 AM

I only saw a liner for an suv which is a plain tarp and not big enough to cover plywood. Yours is a pocket for wood. Am I missing something. It looks like different products. But the pouch is missing headrest hooks….....oh wait I dont have headrest in the bed. The pouch is a better design for lumber and sheet goods.

-- Thank You Veterans!

View BOB67CAM's profile


269 posts in 3841 days

#11 posted 04-13-2010 08:45 AM

ive been talking about this stuff with a buddy who has dealt with the same basic issue with cabelas, its damn sad that they cant play nice, im not 1 to bitch about a company making profits, but i can gladly bitch when theyre screwing the one who came up with the idea..its just extremely poor ethics…

-- if you dont have it, build it, especially when its a stupid idea

View Mark Shymanski's profile

Mark Shymanski

5623 posts in 4482 days

#12 posted 04-13-2010 09:56 AM

Didn’t Lee Valley have this product in their catalogue a while ago? Seems to me I have been seeing that cargo bed liner for a couple of years now, I know Canadian Tire had one a couple of years ago, I got a smaller version for a Christmas present. Princess Auto has had cargo bed liners as well…I don’t think this is a particularily new idea, Lee Valley is just selling one of the many that are out there. I’m not real happy that I have to strongly disagree with a fellow Lumberjock but I think LV is one of the ‘good guys’ and we shouldn’t be judging them to be ‘unethical’ based on a single instance. Kerry I notice your website is copyrighted 2010, I do not know how long you have been selling these pouches for but I suspect you are not the first out there. I am in no way saying you don’t have a great product, I am sure you do, I am just saying I don’t think you were the first to manufacture a poly bed liner.

We winge that there are no ethical companies left but when we suspect a company is being unethical we should also be prepared to make sure that we judge a company we give them a fair chance to represent their side. I have asked Lee Valley to comment on this discussion, we will see what happens.

-- "Checking for square? What madness is this! The cabinet is square because I will it to be so!" Jeremy Greiner LJ Topic#20953 2011 Feb 2

View TopamaxSurvivor's profile


19230 posts in 4446 days

#13 posted 04-13-2010 10:09 AM

I just ran across one of their catalogs from 2009. It said gift catalog, it wasn’t in there, but neither were a lot of their other items.

-- Bob in WW ~ "some old things are lovely, warm still with life ... of the forgotten men who made them." - D.H. Lawrence

View john's profile


2383 posts in 5151 days

#14 posted 04-13-2010 12:52 PM

I agree with Mark 100 %

-- John in Belgrave (Website) ,

View blyther's profile


67 posts in 3880 days

#15 posted 04-13-2010 05:38 PM

I own a patented item and before I share it with anyone they have to sign a confidential agreement. This is not 100% safe but shows intent on your side and go a long way in court. Knock-offs are commonplace but if your not protecting your invention you will get hosed.
I do agree with Mark as well.

-- Paul, Winterset Iowa,

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