LumberJocks Woodworking Forum banner

Skil Saw 825 blade guard spring

5K views 26 replies 7 participants last post by  bigblockyeti 
#1 · (Edited by Moderator)
I have and old Skil model 825 saw, it must be 50-60 years old, from the generation with the oval blue/white name/model/SN plate.
Runs great, but the blade guard spring needs to be replaced or tightened.
I have totally failed to find any information on dis-assembly so that I can access the coil spring that returns the blade guard over the blade.
I have removed the outer part of the blade guard, and removed the three screws behind the inner blade-guard accessed by the two holes near the center of the guard, but am at a total loss as to what to do next.
If anyone here is familiar with how to get at this, I would really appreciate it if you would post any useful information you have.
Thanks


 
See less See more
2
#2 ·
The tolerances of the bearing for that holds the blade guard are pretty tight. This combined with the fact that there is really no great seal on the top of the bearing means that dust, dirt and general grime are GREAT at working their way between the bearing and the housing of the saw body, making removal VERY difficult.

First try PB Blaster, which is ESPECIALLY great if there is rust present on the bearing (generally happens if it was stored for long periods with no gear case oil to prevent rust or stored on its side instead of on the shoe)

If this fails, it might require some gentle persuasion with a flatbar, a piece of 2×3/4" oak and a good heavy rubber mallet. BE VERY CAREFUL WITH THIS and be sure to watch the area right where the steel shaft sleeve meets the guard, as there are generally stress fractures already present in the aluminum guard and this can break the guard.

If all else fails, take a paint pan or other pan that is about 2" deep, fill it with naptha and mineral spirits and place the saw, blade guard down in solution. (Make SURE that the label, motor housing, etc. are not in solution) and let it sit for a few hours to a few days and this will almost certainly free the stuck bearing.
 
#5 ·
I can't recall the exact position of the spring. I believe that there is a single hole on the guard sleeve and there should be multiple holes on the saw housing.

Use a straight pick and compressed air to clean out the dirt and grime that have likely filled almost all of the holes within the housing.

The spring looks correct, however, I don't recall the bottom part being bent out and thought it was generally bent straight back, though this may incorrect

Hope that helps
 
#9 ·
I'll do that, thanks.
My shop is in a similar state. I've tried to put a halt on all projects until I can get it all organized, cabinets, shelves storage compartments that are labeled, tool chests to protect edge tools, work surfaces. Clearing off ALL work spaces until I can actually see the bench tops again.
I've got an antique work bench that has been in pieces for several years, I'll be rebuilding it soon…...
 
#10 · (Edited by Moderator)
Update:
After assembling and dis-assembling the darn thing 20 times, I finally got the guard spring properly assembled, the guard now swings closed with some authority and I can consider the saw safe to use. I do still need to fill the gear case with oil (which I have never done- shame on me).
i also found a "feature" that I had not counted on: the center section that the spring leg needs to seat into screws into the blade guard with a reverse thread. The spring tension pushes the screw tight into the blade guard, once you get it assembled properly.
I (finally) figured out that the spring leg that pointed up was not seating itself into any of the holes in the center collar, by a fraction of an inch. The holes are just set a bit inside the outside edge of the recess, and the spring leg was pushing tight against the outside. I needed to gently bring that leg towards the center of the spring. Once I had the spring finding, and seating itself into one of the holes, I placed the guard in about 1/8 of a turn more clockwise than its final position, pushed it down into place until the spring seated itself, then rotated the guard into place and seated it completely into the opening. I hate 30 minute jobs that take 3 weeks to figure out.
Gas Wood Auto part Automotive wheel system Rim


Wood Gas Auto part Metal Composite material


Wood Gas Auto part Circle Fixture


Wood Household hardware Gas Circle Auto part


Bree, thanks for all your help.
 

Attachments

#11 ·
I know this is an old thread, but there really isn't much info on the 825 out there.
I picked one up few days ago and its one of these older ones too. I just took mine apart completely and i'm in the process of cleaning/ replacing what's needed. So far it looks like it will need a few gaskets, and a good cleaning. as i'm reassambling the guard this is coming in handy, but here is the question, was there grease in this bearing? or is it getting lubrication from the oil? can't quite tell if there is a way for the oil to get to it from inside once all is put back together, and there was enough dirt around the area its hard to tell if that was great with dirt or oil and dirt?

Thanks,
Kris
 
#12 ·
Kris, mine did appear to be greased, I cleaned it up before taking the pictures. I think any bearing grease would do. I found that i could buy a tube of Skil gear case oil at Lowes. It took a while to find it, I guess its' not something that they sell a lot of. They had one tube.
 
#13 ·
here is the question, was there grease in this bearing? or is it getting lubrication from the oil? can t quite tell if there is a way for the oil to get to it from inside once all is put back together, and there was enough dirt around the area its hard to tell if that was great with dirt or oil and dirt?

Thanks,
Kris
The bearing on the blade guard does not need to be greased. It should be thoroughly cleaned when removed to remove any contaminates, however, once it is cleaned, it should be fine. If you find its sticking after cleaning, a shot of spray silicone grease should be sufficient.

Eventually oil will work its way through the seals very slowly and will keep the bearing somewhat lubed. Due to the fact that there isn't a ton of constant motion on the bearing, it does not require a significant amount of lube.
 
#15 ·
ok here is the update, I spent about 2 hours fighting the spring and the guard. Finally gave up, took the saw apart again (removed the shaft and the bearings from the housing) this gave me access to the spring guard from inside the housing. It still took about 10 min to get the spring in the tiny hole and all aligned. But it was worth it, it is working like a dream. And yes i just did a touch of spray grease in the guard bearing.

The saw is back together, still needs the tags, and need to polish up few small screws etc, but next is the brushes. Where do you guys get them? are they the same as the 77 brushes? any chance for a part number?
 
#17 ·
You can also source brushes through Eurton Electric - http://store.eurtonelectric.com/brushes.aspx

I can't remember the exact part no. for the 825 brushes. I know that the 825 brushes are very similarly sized to the current replacement brushes for the modern 77. If I remember correctly, they need just a hair of sanding to fit smoothly, but I know you can get the exact fit brushes through Eurton.

I will try to look through my past orders to get a part no. for you.

You can always dimension them and call Eurton and they will be able to tell you exactly what you need.
 
#18 ·
Wflather, the link does show part 59 the brushes, i swear i looked at the page before and that part wasn't available lol. anyways, it does say it for model 825 type 11. I have no idea what type mine is. it also say it fit 77 type 13.

Bree, if you do find the part number from Eurton let me know, thank you. If not i'll probably oder the 77 and have at it with 1000 sand paper :)
 
#21 ·
I know I am a really late post, however I was a Skil Certified Master Technician. I scored the second highest numbers in the CMT test back in the day, so I have some knowledge of this tool.
First off, all ball bearings EXCEPT the lower guard are grease packed. The gear box is filled to the mid point of the main gear on the armature to the half-way point with Skil 80111 gear oil. NEVER grease. The part # for the brushes is 1845, Eurton has them. The main seal on the armature was 1867, a Chicago Rawhide #. The lower seal was 25245, it changed several times. Gaskets were .035" and yes it matters. T I R ( total internal runout ) is .007 to .010" more is bad, less is worse.
I am due at work in a few, I will add more.
 
#22 ·
I'm so glad to see someone on here that has experience with these as working as a certified tech. I was one back in the day for Porter Cable, Bosch, Senco and Milwaukee but never had any formal training with Skil products.

I'm in the market for a good 825 and a 77 armature, both blue label tools, putting them in the 50+ year old category, if anyone has either that do not need to be rewound, please contact me via PM.

I also wanted to know if the oil used in the 107 and 127 is any different than that needed for the 77 and 825?
 
#23 ·
The original worm drive oil was a refined 90 weight. In the mid 80's the current 80111 oil was brought in, and it then replaced all previous iterations of "worm drive oil" . On either 107 or 127, do not mix oils. once cleaned out, 80111 is preferred lubricant. The Skil oil was also an acceptable substitute oil for B & D or Milwaukee worm drives as well.
I may have an old 77 armature, I'll need to know the length of the lamination stack and overall length. I do not have any packaging left with numbers or versions.
 
#24 ·
I have to tear the saw apart again to get dimensions. I bought it cheap and it looked rough but the guy said it worked good. This is the second (and last!) time I've been burned buy saws that "run good" only to find out there's an open in the armature windings somewhere. I hope to tear into it sometime before the weekend and get some dimensions.

Were there any other dimensional changes for the blue label model 77 armature aside from lamination stack length and overall length (same commutator, shaft OD, etc.)?

Since you have more experience than anyone else I've run across, I have a question about a Stanley W8 safety saw I've had in pieces for a while. Do you know what the gearcase might use? It appeared to be greased only and while pretty worn, the worm and worm wheel still have a little life left that I'd like to preserve as best I can without it leaking everywhere.
 
#25 ·
Man! It has been 35 years since I had the opportunity to even see a Stanley worm drive! It was oil then, has to be a non foamer like the Skil oil, but closer to an 85/140. No synthetic oils, has to be the real stuff.
Sorry to hear about the grease in the case, once metal begins to transfer, there is no stopping it, out side of very time consuming polishing of both gears, removing the other gears material from the worm & the gear. Expect 25 to 30 hours for a set. I did a Skil 127 5 or 6 years ago and those big gears were a bear.
 
#26 ·
I got lucky on the Stanley, the worm still looks decent without any brass smeared on it, the worm wheel is pretty worn but it'll be serviceable for what little work I'll do with it, mostly just a conversation piece but I like to make sure everything works to some degree just in case. I also have a PC 314 that had no oil in it when I bought it, I thought that was weird but the gears looked perfect, as in almost never used so I did my research and sure enough it's oiled as I suspected. Doesn't take nearly as much as a SKIL 77 but what I put in it all ran right out in less than two days so that's just more fun waiting for me to get around to it!
 
This is an older thread, you may not receive a response, and could be reviving an old thread. Please consider creating a new thread.
Top