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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Still having a issue with my 34-771 Rockwell table saw.
During ripping with fence on the right side of the blade - the rip starts off ok, but there's no clearance half way through the cut. Sometime I just rip to the left side of the blade, which is much better.

I bought the saw new; I'm on my 2nd fence, 3rd front-rail, new arbor/motor bearings/belts. I stripped off the left side of the Biesemeyer and installed the flattest/straightest board I could find, added 1 piece of blue tape in the middle to make it perfect. Same insanity with the deck, checked with combo square and dial-gauged that to perfection.

I have dialed-in blades (machinist dial), admittedly it's not that great, dial moves back and forth 2 - 3 thou.
Blades? Large collection of the popular brand blades, new/old, ect , none of them are high dollar; $50 - $60 range.

Most irritating, someone gifted me a Kobalt saw and it rips fine, not that critical if the fence is parallel or not.

Any ideas here? I keep working on the saw, haven't found the problem.

Thanks!
 

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Discussion Starter · #5 ·
Correct, aligned with a combo square and machinist dial, its dead on.
Also marked 1 tooth on a new blade and used the same tooth to take the measurements.
I'm trying to think of a good word to explain what happens, as the workpiece sides in, it is being pinched near the finish of the cut.
A fellow a few doors down has a Unisaw, newer model, no way his saw does this; his has a smooth clean cut and the front part of the blade does not drag.

I had the arbor out when I put in new bearings, wish I swapped it then, but now that I write this, thinking the new bearings may have side-to-side, lateral movement.

Thanks Brad, I'll check that link.


Thanks,
Doug
 

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+1 Turing the arbor flange can help with run out, which is also easy to measure if that is causing the issue.

Couple more possible things to check; both related to squaring the table top to internal trunnion:

1) Check the cast iron table mounting points at the cabinet base. Are corners bent?
Many of the TS that I restore have damaged/bent cabinet corners. Best I can tell is it happens when folks tilt/move the saw using the fence for leverage?
If the corners are bent, your TS top is not really 90° to your blade. There will be a small compound angle, that is hard to measure as it changes with height of blade.

2) Tilt the saw blade to 45° and 30°; then check if blade is still square to miter slots.
This will also show if your cabinet corners are slightly bent. Factory recommended adjustment to square the blade to miter for angle cuts with tilted blade is use of washers between the table and cabinet mounting points. I usually flip the cabinet upside down on hard flat surface, then use tub-a-for and 3lb hammer to level out top plate. Sometimes still have to add shims/washers to get tilted blade square to table top.

Best Luck!
 

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How far to the right do you have to adjust the Biesemeyer fence before the workpiece stops binding against the blade? More than a couple thou? Also are you using the same miter slot when aligning 1) the slot to the blade and 2) the fence to the miter slot?
 

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Discussion Starter · #9 ·
Captain, Yamato, All,

Thank you for comments, but as suspected, not much to like.
The arbor runout is out a min of .002, in a 90 degree sweep; hoping thats a high spot!
The outside cap rocks back-and-forth, I have a spare, about the same. (I can slip a piece of copy paper underneath 1/3rd an edge)

Why didn't I do this long ago? Don't know, I made a holder jig for the dial indicator in 5mins with P2-10
 

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If you suspect it's the arbor, check out this page from Matthias over at Woodgears.ca:

Fixing the wobble in a table saw arbor

Cheers,
Brad
Excellent post! I have a Grizzly 1023, circa 1996. Back when saw was bought (new) I had significant run out on the arbor (measured with an indicator). Since I have a machine shop in my manufacturing plant, I completely disassembled and removed the arbor and had my machinist grind it true to the shaft, ending about .0004 to .0006”. The Grizz has been a joy to use ever since.
 

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... had my machinist grind it true to the shaft, ending about .0004 to .0006”.
The original Unisaw arbor flange was pressed onto the shaft, and could easily have run out with arbor indicating perfect. It is rumored that Delta used a grinding jig on every TS during mfg to remove flange run out after assembly?

Fair warning: If you grind your arbor flange in situ, using the table as reference, and the cabinet is old abused/bent; can create more problems than you solve. Check the table top mounting, and ensure a tilted blade is square to miter slots; BEFORE you grind on flange for run out.
 

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Arbor runout would cause the blade to wobble, but it would be the same wobble at the front and the back of the blade, so I don't see the point in looking at that as a cause for your issue.
Are you cutting green or incompletely dried wood?
Was the problem there with the previous fence?
 

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I used a router with a small aluminum oxide stone to tru up my table saw flange after I had the arbor bearings replaced.
My motivation was to tighten up the kerf left from the blade.
I don’t understand what the ops problem is. I have no idea what to suggest
Good Luck
 

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Discussion Starter · #16 · (Edited)
Thank again all,
The arbor flange/cap were both off, but dailed both of them in with stone(s).
Which didn't take very long; I watched a "dip" disappear on the TS flange.
When I tested it again with the dial indicator, I thought the set up was wrong, but is was dead-zero, and the set up was fine. Amazing, and I've looked at that arbor many times wishing I could grind, cut, etc.

Does it work better, I'll get back to you on that. Mysterious problem, even the freebee Kobalt works better.
I noticed the indicator needle moves slightly by pushing on unisaw trunnion, that was not expected, maybe may saw was a lemon from day 1.

If I replace the saw at least I know I tried every I could do!
 

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Discussion Starter · #17 ·
Success!
Installed and checked a dozen 10" blades this morning found 3 that were in the ,.001 range, some of the oldest blades (good condition) .002, .003, .004 all the way up to .006 runout/wobble.
Best of the lot in order:
#1 Leitz
#2 Harbor Freight's 10" 60T Hercules Woodworking Saw Blade
#3 Freud
# 4 Amana
Other notes, the older blades have the 1-1/2" heat/expansion slots, they had the most runout/wobble.
Harbor Freight, yup, I bought one a few weeks ago, it runs nice, good balance, a best in class blade.

I've been around a lot of cabimakers for the last 27 years, one fellow had a guy-told-me-once-story: if you use the wrong size cap/washer (or other problems) you'll ruin the blade! IDK, maybe I guess, probably overheating is the worst thing you can do to them.

btw, using a diy dial indicator: 5" x 10" mdf, cut holes/notched where needed, 2 magnets for hold-downs
Works great, super fast!!
 

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Your Amana had runout? I have less than .002 on any of my blades in situ. Amana, CMT, even the OEM supplied blades. On my old Ridgid, I made a mark on the blade and arbor flange so I could rotate blades to minimize runout. That was when I used Freud blades. On my Harvey, I don't have any differences with CMT or Amana.

I wonder if your arbor flange and nut bent your blades. Most are within .001 new. Even cheap ones. When testing runout, you do need to test the edge of the tooth. They are ground mounted so the blade blank may have a tiny run-out, but the teeth are ground dead on. It is easier if your dial indicator has a flat anvil.

I bet I never showed you my dial indicator setup. A bit of round pipe with a tab welded on for the dial indicator. So it slides in the miter slot very cleanly.

You could pull the arbor out and take it to a machine shop. Any contacts over at Hazy? There used to be a one-man shop in Annandale I had do a bit of work, but he did not survive. Even if a local shop, a lot cheaper than a new saw. I bet there is one in the airpark. Then make up a few ZCI's with different length slots for fixed splitters. Some US made cogged, Gates maybe, V belts will do wonders for vibration if you still have your Chinese belts in there.

FWIW, I run my fence with about .0015 clearance at the far end of the table. Do make sure your fence is strait. A lot of the plastic faces curve quite a bit.

I am surprised on the trunnion flex. Maybe Captain Klutz has a hint on that. Cabinet not trunnion.

Not gong to make it back your way this year as a strained tendon in my foot is just not healing yet.
 

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Discussion Starter · #20 ·
Dialed everything I could think of. I thought for a minute I'd have to move that move that deck again but I got it right the first time. My last check was a single tooth to the rail/fence, it was dead on.
Over the years I managed to collect 7 - 8 Amana blades [out of an assortment of approx 60], there was a wide range of runout, and one in the .001 range.
As mentioned the expansion joints that start at the outside and head to the center 5/8" don't hold up as well.
I know it's hard to believe that HF 60 Hercules was high on the list, could have bought a second with the 15% off sale ($42) it's worth is double that. [the large tooth hole-saws are perfect for woodworking guys also]

Does this unisaw work any better? Not really, the rip tightens up about 1/2 way through.
btw, miter sleds work fine and I relocated the 2x3 84" front rail to a centered position which allows 24" ripping on both sides.

Maybe next year you'll be healed and we can get to the expo.
 
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