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I got one of these last month. The return instructions tell you to put the return label in the envelope so the address is showing, remove the DVD from its case and insert it behind the return label and drop it in the mailbox. I doubt the DVD made it back to them in one piece. Haven't received any other notices from them yet, but its only been less than a month.
Mike
 

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I got mine from Woodworker's Journal a few years ago. I got several dunning letters. On the last one I got I wrote them a note that said if I got even one more letter from them about paying for something I didn't order, I was going to cancel my WWJ subscription. Then I sent it back in their remittance envelope. No more after that. I like the one above that gets the state attorney general involved. That creates a record that helps protect you.
 

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Sounds like they took a page from 'The Handyman Club of America" book? That bunch called once, after I told them about the BBB looking for them, .......silence on the line.

One could always mark one of their "gifts" Return to Sender/address unkown. Put it back in the mailbox.
 

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Got the same DVD. Legel advice is to ignore it. Sheila wants to waste your time. The is the Guilds method of marketing; plan and simple. The BBB is not going to change their methods. Also what could they possiblly do to your credit rating?
 

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I had just started a new topic also because I got the same letter and DVD. I did not notice the fine print at the bottom of the letter saying you aren't obligated to pay for it. I still think this is a dirty marketing trick and may even be illegal. I'm turning my letter over to the Consumer Fraud Division of the DA's Office.
 

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"And I don't think much about some of the advise thats given by George, it's almost allways sales driven, and he doesn't seem to know much more then most rookies."

The reality is they won't let you pull the crap there that you do here, therefore you don't like them!

There's nothing illegal about this, but the argument can certainly be made it is a less than "transparent" advertising scheme. You are never under any obligation to pay for items delivered to you without your permission or request. WWGOA is a decent organization, but I don't think they are gaining any favor with this advertising campaign.
 

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When you first get the dvd, watch it, put it back in the envelope, tape the envelope to a cinder block and drop it off at the post office. That will cost them an arm and a leg in return postage and at that point they have an incentive to take you off the mailing list!
 

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I find myself in the same situation but I'm going to to ignore, I didn't request the dvd or anything else from them. The dvd isn't that bad actually but isn't that great either and I believe a lot of the stuff on it can be found for free on YouTube. They sent it to me and they can come after me for the $13 or whatever it is if they want.
 

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This is a MARKETING SCHEME. I have had this very same thing occur to me with regards to an astronomy DVD. The funny thing is that the "company" wanted me to REMOVE the DVD from the protective sleeve and send ONLY the DVD (unprotected) back in the envelop. BINGO! Scam alert!
 

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This is actually an old thread. If you read the fine print on the letter it clearly says you aren't obligated to send the DVD back or pay for it. This is called misleading advertising techniques. Even if Wood Working Guild of America had some product I wanted to buy, I would not buy it from them simply because of the advertising techniques they use. Hopefully everybody else does the same and they learn their lesson, but it must work for them because they keep doing it.
 

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Discussion Starter · #35 ·
I started this thread nearly a year ago. I took everyone's advice and just ignored their request for money and they stopped trying after a few attempts. Chris P is right. It isn't a bad video but all of what's in it can be found on youtube. Pretty much anything you have interest in can be found on youtube these days so just keep the video and toss any correspondence they send you.
 

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I used to take any unsolicited junk mail that included a return envelope and send it back, adding anything and everything that would fit in the envelope, not including anything containing my address.
 

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I write articles for the WWGOA web site, and through this work I have gotten to know the WWGOA team pretty well over the years. The marketing approach is to provide a free sample and hope that you like it so you will sign up. I think it is unusual at first to send out your actual product for free and hope that someone will pay for it, but apparently they find that people are more likely to sign up for the series if they have a firsthand experience with the product. It is an unorthodox approach, but it is not a scam. As pneufab pointed out, the letter states that you don't have to pay them anything. Even after someone signs up for the series, any individual DVD can be returned even after it is viewed fur a full refund. Ever try to do that with a DVD anywhere else? In their DVD series they have produced some of the best techniques focused content for beginning/intermediate woodworkers that I have ever seen. My father has learned a lot from the DVDs and the focused training was invaluable to him as he began woodworking at age 75 and we started Vern's Wood Goods (vernswoodgoods.com). I also watch the videos with my son so that I am confident that he is receiving instruction from a formally trained shop instructor in addition to the guidance that I provide since I am self taught. Like many public schools, his does not have a woodshop program so WWGOA can help fill this void. George Vondriska is a phenomenal craftsman who has been teaching woodworking at various schools (including his own) for years, and for the past five years he has committed nearly all of his time to producing content for this DVD series. I believe that he has now produced over 75 DVDs. They shoot these videos with a producer full camera and crew, and they are editing by professionals as well. This is a high quality product; well organized, excellent guided instruction. The DVD series is now also endorsed and promoted by Wood Magazine as well as Woodcraft. They also provide a ton of free content on their web site, both video and written content. Many of their stories are written by some of the same writers who develop stories for Woodworkers Journal, American Woodworker, Family Handyman, and other magazines where you would pay for similar content that you find for free on WWGOA.com. Just as with a print magazine, there are tool reviews, project plans, tip/technique articles, reader tips, etc. It's all original, and it's free. So, I hope that you can look at the whole offering and recognize that WWGOA is bringing a lot of value to our community. It is a business, like a magazine or any other product, so yes they want to sell something. But they invest heavily into developing a great educational product, and with all due respect its not a scam. I wish more companies in the woodworking field would send me a free sample of their product that I can keep with no obligation.
 

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I know that I can keep any unsolicited materials I receive in the mail. And I have seen that in the fine print. But why are there only two options given here ((1) pay for the DVD and sign up to get more or (2) return the DVD)?

Who receives something unwanted and keeps both the item and return envelope in case the sender asks for it back in a few weeks?

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pmayer, the problem is the fine print and the way they word the letter. I'm a retired criminal investigator who worked in a prosecutors office and worked consumer fraud cases, and I didn't even catch the fine print at first. That is the problem with this technique. If you want to send out a free product for people to sample then I"m all for it. In my woodworking business I give out free stuff quite often. The difference is my stuff is free and I don't try and trick people into later paying for it with confusing letters and hidden fine print.
 
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