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Thien Baffle on the fly project

14249 Views 37 Replies 8 Participants Last post by Holbs, May 28, 2014

Holbs

Discussion Starter · Feb 22, 2014

day 1

And so.. my personal Thien Baffle challenge begins.
1/2" MDF (i have 2 of these 4×8' sheets..might as well use them). First time ever working on MDF with a power tool. To date… MDF 1, Eric 0 for dust control.
This baffle will sit on top of a 55 gallon plastic drum, be 12" high (to allow more separation and swirling action), and same as many other Thien Baffles out there with a couple differences:

1.) I used a 45 degree chamfer bit on the outer lip to give falling particles no gap space against the 1/16" lexan I'll be installing. This has increased my gap space another 1/2" from the desired 1 1/8" cut out end result (right now, the cut out is 2 1/8" because I'll be laminating 1/8" hardboard on top of the MDF to extend 1" into cutout area). Shall see how this messes anything up.

2.) routed a 1/16" wide 1/8" deep slot at the top of the chamfer for the 1/16" lexan. Made it all the way around and was pulling it backwards to blow out the dust inside the groove and the tip of the bit broke. Darn it.

I am thankful to have picked up a MicroFence edge guide with circle jig at an auction for $20 will everything intact, as this thing is a wonderful perfect router circle jig and with the help of a hand clamp a wonderful circle jig marker as well.

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WoodES

· #2 · Feb 22, 2014

Holbs said:
day 1

And so.. my personal Thien Baffle challenge begins.
1/2" MDF (i have 2 of these 4×8' sheets..might as well use them). First time ever working on MDF with a power tool. To date… MDF 1, Eric 0 for dust control.
This baffle will sit on top of a 55 gallon plastic drum, be 12" high (to allow more separation and swirling action), and same as many other Thien Baffles out there with a couple differences:

1.) I used a 45 degree chamfer bit on the outer lip to give falling particles no gap space against the 1/16" lexan I'll be installing. This has increased my gap space another 1/2" from the desired 1 1/8" cut out end result (right now, the cut out is 2 1/8" because I'll be laminating 1/8" hardboard on top of the MDF to extend 1" into cutout area). Shall see how this messes anything up.

2.) routed a 1/16" wide 1/8" deep slot at the top of the chamfer for the 1/16" lexan. Made it all the way around and was pulling it backwards to blow out the dust inside the groove and the tip of the bit broke. Darn it.

I am thankful to have picked up a MicroFence edge guide with circle jig at an auction for $20 will everything intact, as this thing is a wonderful perfect router circle jig and with the help of a hand clamp a wonderful circle jig marker as well.

Looks like my layout…..

I used some of the inexpensive orange box pine faced finish plywood for mine. At first I thought your slot was too big, but then read that you were covering with 1" hardboard. Should work good.

I routed a groove on the bottom to match the diameter of the barrel and as it has a rolled edge, a cove bit makes a nice fit.

One other thought. I screwed the walls to the vertical supports. I didn't want the suction to implode the walls. No problem so far.

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Holbs

Discussion Starter · #3 · Feb 22, 2014

Holbs said:
day 1

And so.. my personal Thien Baffle challenge begins.
1/2" MDF (i have 2 of these 4×8' sheets..might as well use them). First time ever working on MDF with a power tool. To date… MDF 1, Eric 0 for dust control.
This baffle will sit on top of a 55 gallon plastic drum, be 12" high (to allow more separation and swirling action), and same as many other Thien Baffles out there with a couple differences:

1.) I used a 45 degree chamfer bit on the outer lip to give falling particles no gap space against the 1/16" lexan I'll be installing. This has increased my gap space another 1/2" from the desired 1 1/8" cut out end result (right now, the cut out is 2 1/8" because I'll be laminating 1/8" hardboard on top of the MDF to extend 1" into cutout area). Shall see how this messes anything up.

2.) routed a 1/16" wide 1/8" deep slot at the top of the chamfer for the 1/16" lexan. Made it all the way around and was pulling it backwards to blow out the dust inside the groove and the tip of the bit broke. Darn it.

I am thankful to have picked up a MicroFence edge guide with circle jig at an auction for $20 will everything intact, as this thing is a wonderful perfect router circle jig and with the help of a hand clamp a wonderful circle jig marker as well.

ES.. I was going to route a groove underneath the baffle to sit astride the top of the barrel by 1/4" as well. However, somewhere along the lines I messed up the diameter measurement. The bottom of the outside lip is somehow magically flush with the lip of the barrel. I can still save this as functional, but leaves little leeway in any weatherstripping errors.
And to end the evening, 2 pictures: baffle sitting on top of barrel, followed by the top plate being spaced with 12" spacers for a dry fit (and somehow, the top of the plate is exactly 4' from floor)

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Holbs

Discussion Starter · #4 · Feb 23, 2014

day 2

I decided to change the height of my Thien Baffle to 16". Why? Because the HVAC hoods I have seen so far have a rapid structure change from circular to rectangle, I have a 3HP dust collector (which is unknown if a Thien Baffle can even handle a 3HP), and when you step on a 6" spiral duct you can come to 8" high and 4.5" wide oval which should be good enough. 8" x 2 = 16".
While at the Home Depot, I bought hardboard, and 1/2" pipe insulation. I am unsure if using the pipe insulation will function correctly, but heck… for 97 cent worth a shot. I also built the support structure. This week, I'll be getting the 1/16" lexan and ordering the 7" bellmouth (for my 7" chimney inlet to the DC).

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Holbs

Discussion Starter · #5 · Feb 23, 2014

Holbs said:
day 2

I decided to change the height of my Thien Baffle to 16". Why? Because the HVAC hoods I have seen so far have a rapid structure change from circular to rectangle, I have a 3HP dust collector (which is unknown if a Thien Baffle can even handle a 3HP), and when you step on a 6" spiral duct you can come to 8" high and 4.5" wide oval which should be good enough. 8" x 2 = 16".
While at the Home Depot, I bought hardboard, and 1/2" pipe insulation. I am unsure if using the pipe insulation will function correctly, but heck… for 97 cent worth a shot. I also built the support structure. This week, I'll be getting the 1/16" lexan and ordering the 7" bellmouth (for my 7" chimney inlet to the DC).

I made a fatal engineering flaw. wonder who can spot it.
had to re-do the baffle plate and 1/8" hardboard. have learned, to cut MDF outside. went as far as i could til sun went down. 95% completed with the redo.

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changeoffocus

· #6 · Feb 23, 2014

Holbs said:
day 2

I decided to change the height of my Thien Baffle to 16". Why? Because the HVAC hoods I have seen so far have a rapid structure change from circular to rectangle, I have a 3HP dust collector (which is unknown if a Thien Baffle can even handle a 3HP), and when you step on a 6" spiral duct you can come to 8" high and 4.5" wide oval which should be good enough. 8" x 2 = 16".
While at the Home Depot, I bought hardboard, and 1/2" pipe insulation. I am unsure if using the pipe insulation will function correctly, but heck… for 97 cent worth a shot. I also built the support structure. This week, I'll be getting the 1/16" lexan and ordering the 7" bellmouth (for my 7" chimney inlet to the DC).

Maybe you hid the fact that you cut too far around by placing that hardboard on there. Your 120 to 240 degree openings appear to be OK. Looks like nice workmanship.

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Holbs

Discussion Starter · #7 · Feb 23, 2014

Holbs said:
day 2

I decided to change the height of my Thien Baffle to 16". Why? Because the HVAC hoods I have seen so far have a rapid structure change from circular to rectangle, I have a 3HP dust collector (which is unknown if a Thien Baffle can even handle a 3HP), and when you step on a 6" spiral duct you can come to 8" high and 4.5" wide oval which should be good enough. 8" x 2 = 16".
While at the Home Depot, I bought hardboard, and 1/2" pipe insulation. I am unsure if using the pipe insulation will function correctly, but heck… for 97 cent worth a shot. I also built the support structure. This week, I'll be getting the 1/16" lexan and ordering the 7" bellmouth (for my 7" chimney inlet to the DC).

the start of the opening is too close to the inlet.. the end of the cut is too close to the inlet. I had it backwards

It's only nice workmanship because of the Microfence device i'm using. A VERY sweet jig to have. Will be doing a review on LJ's about it when all done and cleaned up.

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Holbs

Discussion Starter · #8 · Mar 1, 2014

day 3

I purchased the 1/16" lexan poly-carbonate with dimensions of 16" x 60" for $32. Routed a 1/4" groove for the lexan to sit in, top and bottom. Cut all the support pieces and slapped it all together for a dry fit run. Here is the result:

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So far… it does not look like I'll win a beauty contest with it, but it will fit my utilitarian funtion. I made alot of mistakes and errors which have given me much needed experience in working on MDF, using Microfence jig, first time really using my bosch 1617 router, etc.
Next will be cutting a 13" diameter thru the top of the baffle for the 7" bellmouth outlet, assembling inlet 6" (well, actually 8" x 4.5") port, and doing a function test. Who knows, might not have to silicone or caulk or whatever to seal up the chamber as everything was a good tight fit.
And notice.. the baffle cut out arc has been changed from my previous error: the opening now starts much later and the end stops right before the inlet.

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scoobydooo9r

· #9 · Mar 1, 2014

Holbs said:
day 3

I purchased the 1/16" lexan poly-carbonate with dimensions of 16" x 60" for $32. Routed a 1/4" groove for the lexan to sit in, top and bottom. Cut all the support pieces and slapped it all together for a dry fit run. Here is the result:

So far… it does not look like I'll win a beauty contest with it, but it will fit my utilitarian funtion. I made alot of mistakes and errors which have given me much needed experience in working on MDF, using Microfence jig, first time really using my bosch 1617 router, etc.
Next will be cutting a 13" diameter thru the top of the baffle for the 7" bellmouth outlet, assembling inlet 6" (well, actually 8" x 4.5") port, and doing a function test. Who knows, might not have to silicone or caulk or whatever to seal up the chamber as everything was a good tight fit.
And notice.. the baffle cut out arc has been changed from my previous error: the opening now starts much later and the end stops right before the inlet.

That looks great! I always find that with enough caulking, I never make mistakes! Can't wait to see it up and running.

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WoodES

· #10 · Mar 1, 2014

Holbs said:
day 3

I purchased the 1/16" lexan poly-carbonate with dimensions of 16" x 60" for $32. Routed a 1/4" groove for the lexan to sit in, top and bottom. Cut all the support pieces and slapped it all together for a dry fit run. Here is the result:

So far… it does not look like I'll win a beauty contest with it, but it will fit my utilitarian funtion. I made alot of mistakes and errors which have given me much needed experience in working on MDF, using Microfence jig, first time really using my bosch 1617 router, etc.
Next will be cutting a 13" diameter thru the top of the baffle for the 7" bellmouth outlet, assembling inlet 6" (well, actually 8" x 4.5") port, and doing a function test. Who knows, might not have to silicone or caulk or whatever to seal up the chamber as everything was a good tight fit.
And notice.. the baffle cut out arc has been changed from my previous error: the opening now starts much later and the end stops right before the inlet.

Looks like a winner to me.

I used clear duct tape on mine and I have no glued parts. This allows me to access the interioror replace the poly-carb should it be necessary.

My slot starts closer to the inlet and stops earlier. I have observed that the chips drop out of the air flow and the beginning of the slot and less so at the end.

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Holbs

Discussion Starter · #11 · Mar 1, 2014

Holbs said:
day 3

I purchased the 1/16" lexan poly-carbonate with dimensions of 16" x 60" for $32. Routed a 1/4" groove for the lexan to sit in, top and bottom. Cut all the support pieces and slapped it all together for a dry fit run. Here is the result:

So far… it does not look like I'll win a beauty contest with it, but it will fit my utilitarian funtion. I made alot of mistakes and errors which have given me much needed experience in working on MDF, using Microfence jig, first time really using my bosch 1617 router, etc.
Next will be cutting a 13" diameter thru the top of the baffle for the 7" bellmouth outlet, assembling inlet 6" (well, actually 8" x 4.5") port, and doing a function test. Who knows, might not have to silicone or caulk or whatever to seal up the chamber as everything was a good tight fit.
And notice.. the baffle cut out arc has been changed from my previous error: the opening now starts much later and the end stops right before the inlet.

ES… with my dry run, I took strong notice to see if there was any flex in the lexan. Right now, the 1/16" lexan sits in a 1/16" groove top and bottom with 6 outer structure supports. It didnt flex at all. With the lexan being bent like it is, I do not think any fasteners or glue or tape is needed. Yet

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WoodES

· #12 · Mar 1, 2014

Holbs said:
day 3

I purchased the 1/16" lexan poly-carbonate with dimensions of 16" x 60" for $32. Routed a 1/4" groove for the lexan to sit in, top and bottom. Cut all the support pieces and slapped it all together for a dry fit run. Here is the result:

So far… it does not look like I'll win a beauty contest with it, but it will fit my utilitarian funtion. I made alot of mistakes and errors which have given me much needed experience in working on MDF, using Microfence jig, first time really using my bosch 1617 router, etc.
Next will be cutting a 13" diameter thru the top of the baffle for the 7" bellmouth outlet, assembling inlet 6" (well, actually 8" x 4.5") port, and doing a function test. Who knows, might not have to silicone or caulk or whatever to seal up the chamber as everything was a good tight fit.
And notice.. the baffle cut out arc has been changed from my previous error: the opening now starts much later and the end stops right before the inlet.

Good, remember now you have very little restriction on the inlet side. Should you ever have a clog, or heavy chip load the weakest point will give. It could be the lexan.

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Holbs

Discussion Starter · #13 · Mar 1, 2014

Holbs said:
day 3

I purchased the 1/16" lexan poly-carbonate with dimensions of 16" x 60" for $32. Routed a 1/4" groove for the lexan to sit in, top and bottom. Cut all the support pieces and slapped it all together for a dry fit run. Here is the result:

So far… it does not look like I'll win a beauty contest with it, but it will fit my utilitarian funtion. I made alot of mistakes and errors which have given me much needed experience in working on MDF, using Microfence jig, first time really using my bosch 1617 router, etc.
Next will be cutting a 13" diameter thru the top of the baffle for the 7" bellmouth outlet, assembling inlet 6" (well, actually 8" x 4.5") port, and doing a function test. Who knows, might not have to silicone or caulk or whatever to seal up the chamber as everything was a good tight fit.
And notice.. the baffle cut out arc has been changed from my previous error: the opening now starts much later and the end stops right before the inlet.

ahh..good point that i did not consider. somewhere along the way, i was going to look into what Bert did with a auxiliary emergency valve that opens at a certain pressure. might have to look into that pretty soon.

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WoodES

· #14 · Mar 1, 2014

Holbs said:
day 3

I purchased the 1/16" lexan poly-carbonate with dimensions of 16" x 60" for $32. Routed a 1/4" groove for the lexan to sit in, top and bottom. Cut all the support pieces and slapped it all together for a dry fit run. Here is the result:

So far… it does not look like I'll win a beauty contest with it, but it will fit my utilitarian funtion. I made alot of mistakes and errors which have given me much needed experience in working on MDF, using Microfence jig, first time really using my bosch 1617 router, etc.
Next will be cutting a 13" diameter thru the top of the baffle for the 7" bellmouth outlet, assembling inlet 6" (well, actually 8" x 4.5") port, and doing a function test. Who knows, might not have to silicone or caulk or whatever to seal up the chamber as everything was a good tight fit.
And notice.. the baffle cut out arc has been changed from my previous error: the opening now starts much later and the end stops right before the inlet.

I am not sure what pressure setting would be used for relief. I suspect it would be rather low. As you have a large lexan surface area, even a low pressure on a large surface generates a large force that you would have to support with the grooves.

Example: 20" dia baffle x pi (3.14 not cherry) gives you ~60" circumference x 16" height, resulting with an inner surface area of 960 sq in. You multiply that by your assumed psi and you get the force that must be resisted by the lexan. 1 psi provides 960 lbs, 10 psi 9600 lbs. etc.. All of this is suction and the vertical supports contribute nothing to support the lexan for this suction pressure.

As there are many examples of thin gauge metal duct collapsing under the suction pressure of a dust collector, one can envision a similar situation with a large separator.

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Holbs

Discussion Starter · #15 · Mar 1, 2014

Holbs said:
day 3

I purchased the 1/16" lexan poly-carbonate with dimensions of 16" x 60" for $32. Routed a 1/4" groove for the lexan to sit in, top and bottom. Cut all the support pieces and slapped it all together for a dry fit run. Here is the result:

So far… it does not look like I'll win a beauty contest with it, but it will fit my utilitarian funtion. I made alot of mistakes and errors which have given me much needed experience in working on MDF, using Microfence jig, first time really using my bosch 1617 router, etc.
Next will be cutting a 13" diameter thru the top of the baffle for the 7" bellmouth outlet, assembling inlet 6" (well, actually 8" x 4.5") port, and doing a function test. Who knows, might not have to silicone or caulk or whatever to seal up the chamber as everything was a good tight fit.
And notice.. the baffle cut out arc has been changed from my previous error: the opening now starts much later and the end stops right before the inlet.

good point.
someone else used some screws to afix their lexan to the supports with no down sides.
good thing i made that auxiliary 14" cut out uptop for future things like this.

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Holbs

Discussion Starter · #16 · Mar 3, 2014

day 4

Found out, I have a 6" inlet on my Grizzly 3HP dual bag dust collector, not a 7" like I "assumed" I had. Luckily, I have 6" HVAC parts to use up for today. But it did force me to redo hastily the top plate from 7" to 6". I also cut out a 14" with 45 degree bevel for a temporary plate used to fine tune the chimney height, for future cleaning of interior lexan, and if I decide to go forth with the bellmouth it will be easy to install.
Here is the latest picture of my progress. Nothing is sealed, siliconed, caulked, or grey pastey stuff on the HVAC duct work. And yet.. when I fire it up, it works

Tossed a handful of planer shavings in and to the eye.. it appears 100% of the shavings made it into the barrel.

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WoodES

· #17 · Mar 3, 2014

Holbs said:
day 4

Found out, I have a 6" inlet on my Grizzly 3HP dual bag dust collector, not a 7" like I "assumed" I had. Luckily, I have 6" HVAC parts to use up for today. But it did force me to redo hastily the top plate from 7" to 6". I also cut out a 14" with 45 degree bevel for a temporary plate used to fine tune the chimney height, for future cleaning of interior lexan, and if I decide to go forth with the bellmouth it will be easy to install.
Here is the latest picture of my progress. Nothing is sealed, siliconed, caulked, or grey pastey stuff on the HVAC duct work. And yet.. when I fire it up, it works Tossed a handful of planer shavings in and to the eye.. it appears 100% of the shavings made it into the barrel.

Well that just sucks! Congratulations….

Always fun when the project throws a curveball.

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Holbs

Discussion Starter · #18 · Mar 3, 2014

Holbs said:
day 4

Found out, I have a 6" inlet on my Grizzly 3HP dual bag dust collector, not a 7" like I "assumed" I had. Luckily, I have 6" HVAC parts to use up for today. But it did force me to redo hastily the top plate from 7" to 6". I also cut out a 14" with 45 degree bevel for a temporary plate used to fine tune the chimney height, for future cleaning of interior lexan, and if I decide to go forth with the bellmouth it will be easy to install.
Here is the latest picture of my progress. Nothing is sealed, siliconed, caulked, or grey pastey stuff on the HVAC duct work. And yet.. when I fire it up, it works Tossed a handful of planer shavings in and to the eye.. it appears 100% of the shavings made it into the barrel.

now i'm trying to figure out how to use standard HVAC 6" wye's for dust collection. I now understand the talk about HVAC is flowing forward and dust collection is backwards for connections. Didnt make sense before. But do not want to give up because $3 per 6" x 6" x 6" HVAC wye versus $30 6" x 6" x 6" duct collection wye is a deal breaker. For anyone else who does not understand the difference, I took a picture:

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the suction from the dust collector would have to be right, your mains to the left and a branch off the bottom. notice the divots. divots are designed to be the male end connectors as you slide your 6" main with it's female end over the divots. this leaves gaps along the inside of the airstream. this could be bad.
i'm thinking of ways to make it work. maybe, pounds something circular with a bevel to spread out the divot end enough for the female connection. or cut a slit or two to help with expansion. will try tomorrow.

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WoodES

· #19 · Mar 3, 2014

Holbs said:
day 4

Found out, I have a 6" inlet on my Grizzly 3HP dual bag dust collector, not a 7" like I "assumed" I had. Luckily, I have 6" HVAC parts to use up for today. But it did force me to redo hastily the top plate from 7" to 6". I also cut out a 14" with 45 degree bevel for a temporary plate used to fine tune the chimney height, for future cleaning of interior lexan, and if I decide to go forth with the bellmouth it will be easy to install.
Here is the latest picture of my progress. Nothing is sealed, siliconed, caulked, or grey pastey stuff on the HVAC duct work. And yet.. when I fire it up, it works Tossed a handful of planer shavings in and to the eye.. it appears 100% of the shavings made it into the barrel.

Seems like any leakage could be fixed with duct tape. After all, duct tape is the universal solution….

I think there are female couplings available that may do the trick. That would eliminate all but one of the backwards fittings.

I had to make up a male - mail metal coupler for the transition drop to the table saw. Found a fitting that fit both the 6" pvc and the 6" hose. I rigged up a support to take the weight of the hose. Works well.

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Holbs

Discussion Starter · #20 · Mar 3, 2014

Holbs said:
day 4

Found out, I have a 6" inlet on my Grizzly 3HP dual bag dust collector, not a 7" like I "assumed" I had. Luckily, I have 6" HVAC parts to use up for today. But it did force me to redo hastily the top plate from 7" to 6". I also cut out a 14" with 45 degree bevel for a temporary plate used to fine tune the chimney height, for future cleaning of interior lexan, and if I decide to go forth with the bellmouth it will be easy to install.
Here is the latest picture of my progress. Nothing is sealed, siliconed, caulked, or grey pastey stuff on the HVAC duct work. And yet.. when I fire it up, it works Tossed a handful of planer shavings in and to the eye.. it appears 100% of the shavings made it into the barrel.

i'm not worried about leakage… I did buy that grey pasty stuff for sealing seams & joints. I'm concerned about buildup on the inside. The divots could be anywhere from 0" to 1/2" off the female connecting end wall, depending on how out-of-round the 2 connection ends are. This would "snag" airflow (how much? i'm unsure if it even matters) and could snag shavings and build up like…tooth tartar

couplings… hmm… that is the answer

so simple! I'll just cut a 4" piece and make my own coupler. I would just have to make my divots more pronounced to slide into the existing machined divots.
thinking naw…wouldnt work. I'll just probably cut 4 slits on the divots and man handle my male connecting end then grey goob the crap out of it.

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