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Spiral cutter head, is it worth putting more money into my jointer, or should I sell and buy new

1147 Views 14 Replies 9 Participants Last post by Unknowncraftsman, Apr 12, 2022

spoonycoot

Discussion Starter · Apr 11, 2022 (Edited by Moderator)

Is it worth buying a spiral cutter head for a machine that needs shimmed to be coplanar?

I have an 8" delta joiner from 1984 that I restored a couple years ago. I was cutting wedges so I shimmed the outfeed table with feeler gauges and have had acceptable results. I didn't have an accurate straight edge so I used two string pulled across the beds, one on each side and used feeler gauges to get close.

It annoys me that it required shimming, I hate when things are not perfect, which makes me want a new parallelogram machine.
I want a spiral cutter head mainly because the blades are indexed and I do not like sharpening.

Does it make sense to put $500 into this machine, or sell it and buy a new grizzly with spiral cutter?

I have $600 in the current machine adding a spiral cutter makes the total investment $1100 which is about half of the grizzly.

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ibewjon

· #2 · Apr 11, 2022

Half is half. Leaving money for another purchase.
And is the griz available? I tried before the current shortages and griz jointers we're always out of stock. Send them the money and you get on a list. For months. And would the new jointer be perfect? I would go with the new Byrd cutter head on your machine. But that is me.

wapakfred

· #3 · Apr 11, 2022

It's a great jointer, and well worth a spiral head and tuning. For the straight edge, yu can get a 50" one rom Peachtree that's really good for about $45. Or, 2 14" plastic drafting triangles (see pic) or even make your own using 3 pieces of wood. Woodsmith has a pdf file, search for 3 point straight edge. Just my opinion.

Unknowncraftsman

· #4 · Apr 11, 2022

Buy new.
Send the one you have out in the mix someone will want it.
Good Luck

Lazyman

· #5 · Apr 11, 2022

Make sure that the Grizzly you are comparing actually has a helical and not a spiral cutterhead. If spiral, I would stick with straight knives. Personally, I would keep the Delta and upgrade it. There is no guarantee that the Grizzly won't need some adjustment too and I don't think you will get double the quality for your upgrade.

wapakfred

· #6 · Apr 11, 2022 (Edited by Moderator)

2

Oops, sorry…I referenced a pic about using triangles on your jointer in my post above and then forgot to attach it. If you get 14" triangles they really work well. Here it is

Product Output device Computer keyboard Font Parallel

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LesB

· #7 · Apr 11, 2022

I too would up grade.

There is some confusion in definition about "spiral" and "helical" heads. My Powermatic planer has spiral blades that are actually straight type blades but curved or arched around the head. They do a much better job of smooth planing compared to straight blades and particularly on difficult wood grain because it is more of a slicing action. There is no real sharpening to be done on them and replacements are about $90.
The helical heads are the small carbide squares inserts and they are usually also mounted in a curved fashion. I have not used them but have read mixed reactions. Their saving grace is the ability to replace or rotate individual inserts that get chipped.

ibewjon

· #8 · Apr 11, 2022

I believe some carbide cutters are placed square to the bed, and others are skewed a bit to give a better cutting action. When I was shopping, the griz brand was square to the bed, and the Byrd head sold by grid was skewed. I didn't buy new because I found a delta, 8" for $600. I have not seen the need to change the head. It has been a great machine.. and I used the savings from new to pay for a used 15" griz planer.

yamato72

· #9 · Apr 11, 2022 (Edited by Moderator)

I would make sure the machine is setup correctly (tables co-planer, outfeed at correct height, fence at 90, knives adjusted) and that my technique is sound before deciding to change out the cutterhead.

Go helical for less maintenance and occasionally better performance in highly-figured woods. It won't give you a better finish or be any less prone to producing tapered or out-of square boards.

The Delta 8" is a tried-and-true design and I've been able to get good results on mine with a minimum of fuss with both straight knives and with a Shelix. I went Shelix for the reasons I stated.

-There's no guarantee a new parallelogram jointer will be perfect out of the box.
-Dovetail jointers will sometimes need shimming if they've been in service for a long time, have not been well-maintained, have been abused etc.

That said there's nothing wrong with selling your Delta to avoid maintaining straight knives or dealing with adjusting gibs on the dovetail ways. Setting the machine up to joint perfectly with its current set of knives will also fetch more money when you sell it.

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spoonycoot

Discussion Starter · #10 · Apr 11, 2022

Unfortunately the Byrd cutter is on back order for my machine. I was thinking about getting the lux III.

Half is half. Leaving money for another purchase.
And is the griz available? I tried before the current shortages and griz jointers we re always out of stock. Send them the money and you get on a list. For months. And would the new jointer be perfect? I would go with the new Byrd cutter head on your machine. But that is me.

- ibewjon

spoonycoot

Discussion Starter · #11 · Apr 11, 2022

I have on being delivered tomorrow. Im interested to see how close I got it with the strings.

It s a great jointer, and well worth a spiral head and tuning. For the straight edge, yu can get a 50" one rom Peachtree that s really good for about $45. Or, 2 14" plastic drafting triangles (see pic) or even make your own using 3 pieces of wood. Woodsmith has a pdf file, search for 3 point straight edge. Just my opinion.

- Fred Hargis

That's a good perspective, new doesn't mean perfect. Yeah it was the spiral head, I'm guessing the cutters aren't skewed on the grizzly.

Make sure that the Grizzly you are comparing actually has a helical and not a spiral cutterhead. If spiral, I would stick with straight knives. Personally, I would keep the Delta and upgrade it. There is no guarantee that the Grizzly won t need some adjustment too and I don t think you will get double the quality for your upgrade.

- Lazyman

spoonycoot

Discussion Starter · #12 · Apr 11, 2022

The confusion is due to manufactures calling these things what ever they want. Grizzly refers to it as a spiral cutter.

I too would up grade.

There is some confusion in definition about "spiral" and "helical" heads. My Powermatic planer has spiral blades that are actually straight type blades but curved or arched around the head. They do a much better job of smooth planing compared to straight blades and particularly on difficult wood grain because it is more of a slicing action. There is no real sharpening to be done on them and replacements are about $90.
The helical heads are the small carbide squares inserts and they are usually also mounted in a curved fashion. I have not used them but have read mixed reactions. Their saving grace is the ability to replace or rotate individual inserts that get chipped.

- LesB

CaptainKlutz

· #13 · Apr 12, 2022

1) There are different designs for segmented carbide cutter heads, and the names reference the differences.
They key difference is angle of cutter on head. The Spiral heads typically have the cutter parallel to the cutter head. Byrd heads skew the cutting edge, creating a Helical cut. There are PRO/CON to each cut type.
Helical heads are documented as leaving 'scooping' marks on very soft woods. Spiral type requires more HP due the blunt edge 90° to feed direction, compared to slight skew angle of Helical. Read somewhere that Byrd patented the Helical cutter head, which is why you don't see anyone else selling an identical Helical head.

2) Segmented carbide cutting head design determines the max cutting depth.
Standard straight blade head has deep recess after the blade, making it able to remove 1/4" or more per pass when needed. Segmented heads do not have same clearance depth after each cutter, and are typically limited to shallower pass of 1/8-3/16". Most users do not joint edges removing more than 3/16"; but attempt a thick cut on segmented head and chips jam up between cutter and board, causing skipping and chips blowing everywhere. The reduced cut depth is most often an issue; if using the rabbeting edge capabilities of your jointer (BUT not all segmented heads can cut a rabbet due location of edge cutters).

3) Any segmented carbide cutter head requires more HP than a straight blade. The reason is a straight blade head only cuts 3-4 times per revolution. This allows the large metal head to gain/store momentum between each cut. The segmented head never stop cutting. Carbide edge will never offer as sharp an edge as HSS, which also increases HP requirement.

IMHO - It is the increase in HP for segmented carbide head that should be what drives the "upgrade or sell" decision.
An 8inch straight blade cutting head works well with 2HP, and is able to make thick/heavy cuts. Even a 1.5HP motor on 8" straight blade machine works, simply by reducing the cut depth.
Segmented cutter head can take shallow cuts work with a 2HP motor on most woods, but a full depth cut needs more power; with 3HP motors being most common.

Hence, if your antique jointer has 1.5HP motor, you will need to upgrade the motor when you upgrade the head; and buying a new machine will likely cost just as much as base machine + head + motor. If the old Jointer has 2HP motor, then segmented head will work with limitations.

Best Luck with decision.

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tvrgeek

· #14 · Apr 12, 2022

I put a spiral cuter in my 6 inch Ridgid. Excellent move. No more nicks every other board. No more sharpening ( easy and quick) and no more hours setting the blades again.

The cheap tools, like Griz, don't have as many cutters. They are for sure not any step up in quality.

Oh, don't forget a good belt. Chinese belts are terrible. If a single belt, a good candidate for a link belt.

I disagree with the HP comments. They do take a little more, but each tooth takes a smaller bite. I can joint a 6 inch oak on my Ridgid with no problem. I think it is 3/4 HP. Worst case, just slow down a little. I don't make deep cuts anyway. I prefer to sneak up on flat. Maybe an industrial setting with a power feed one might want to take deeper cuts. I learned to take a jack to a rough board and hit the high spots first. Actually takes less time from truck bet to planer ready.

Unknowncraftsman

· #15 · Apr 12, 2022 (Edited by Moderator)

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Captain your wrong on #3. The reason carbide inserts take more power is they scrape instead of scooping cut. HHS wouldn't last very long.
Insert face the wood with a 30 degree face bevel. If they didn't have a tilt and slight radius the power to make a cut it would be unacceptable.
Forward rake and hook angle is the key. The angle the knife sits when it first touches the wood determines power needed to curl up a chip.
I offer this picture

Rectangle Triangle Font Parallel Slope

I now enter these pics of a proper helical head with forward rake. Look at what side the knife the bevel is on.

Hood Automotive tire Motor vehicle Engineering Automotive design

Wood Gas Tints and shades Hardwood Bumper

Good Luck

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