Sounds a bit fishy to me Dick,
Maybe Dave Polaschek can help with this one he is pressure pot man
Maybe Dave Polaschek can help with this one he is pressure pot man
scales
Hi All - I've got a question about knife scales. It sems that everybody need to have scales that have been run thru a pressure pot.
I have a near complete set of Chicago Cutlery that I bought back in the 80's and the scales haven't fallen off or deteriorated other than lost some sheen. That sheen doesn't make them cut any better and for sure doesn't keep them sharp.
So my question is this. If I decide to make a dozen sets of scales, should they be resin pressurized ? If so, I'll have to buy a pressure pot because there's nobody nearby that I know of that does that commercially.
HELP !
I have a near complete set of Chicago Cutlery that I bought back in the 80's and the scales haven't fallen off or deteriorated other than lost some sheen. That sheen doesn't make them cut any better and for sure doesn't keep them sharp.
So my question is this. If I decide to make a dozen sets of scales, should they be resin pressurized ? If so, I'll have to buy a pressure pot because there's nobody nearby that I know of that does that commercially.
HELP !
1 - 20 of 23 Posts
Hey I found a possible answer, I went looking for just what a knife scale was and discovered this!!!!'
Do knife scales need to be stabilized?
Wood is the most commonly-used material for knife handles, but it needs to be stabilized first. Being a natural material, it is sensitive to changes in temperature and humidity and can expand or contract, which causes a problem when tight tolerances (like making knife handles) are required.
It just a educated persons name for a handle I wa thinking it was some sort of Mother of pearl insert like a fish scale.
Well wadda you know!... get a grip on your scales when working with sharp tools
Do knife scales need to be stabilized?
Wood is the most commonly-used material for knife handles, but it needs to be stabilized first. Being a natural material, it is sensitive to changes in temperature and humidity and can expand or contract, which causes a problem when tight tolerances (like making knife handles) are required.
It just a educated persons name for a handle I wa thinking it was some sort of Mother of pearl insert like a fish scale.
Well wadda you know!... get a grip on your scales when working with sharp tools
Hi Dick. I have made a few of them from just regular wood with out being stabilized with epoxy and they held up fine. I can see where the epoxy would keep them from moving but they are so small so how much movement will you get from a 1" wide scale? Seal them very well before installing.
My 2 cents worth….........cheers, Jim
My 2 cents worth….........cheers, Jim
My Chicago cutlery has black walnut handles / scales. They also sell cherry. Ours never had a finish. I just oil them with mineral oil. 35 years old and counting.
That's what is on my chicago - walnutMy Chicago cutlery has black walnut handles / scales. They also sell cherry. Ours never had a finish. I just oil them with mineral oil. 35 years old and counting.
- ibewjon
Dick, I could send you some stabilized birch that's dyed black. Or I could get off my ass and get my pressure pot set up again, and stabilize whatever you need.
But honestly, I find that the plain walnut scales on my steak knives hold up fine, even though I spent 20 years running them through the dishwasher. Every year or two, I stack them all in a quart canning jar, handle down, then pour in food grade linseed oil to cover the wooden bits, and soak them overnight. Pull them out, wipe them off & let them cure for a couple days before putting them back in service.
Dense oily tropical hardwoods such as granadillo or katalox also work just fine with no stabilization. I've used khaya (African mahogany) with good results, too. For native woods, apple worked pretty well without stabilizing, too. Ditto bradford pear and citrus. I would soak the native fruitwoods in linseed oil before putting them into service, but you could probably get by without it even.
The other oil I'll use is Pure Tung Oil either straight up (soak longer) or diluted 50-50 with orange oil (for faster soaking), but that'll take a few days to cure instead of overnight like linseed oil.
Edited to add: the steak knives were a gift for opening a checking account with a bank in Minneapolis in 1982 so I would have a place to deposit my first student loan. We still use them.
But honestly, I find that the plain walnut scales on my steak knives hold up fine, even though I spent 20 years running them through the dishwasher. Every year or two, I stack them all in a quart canning jar, handle down, then pour in food grade linseed oil to cover the wooden bits, and soak them overnight. Pull them out, wipe them off & let them cure for a couple days before putting them back in service.
Dense oily tropical hardwoods such as granadillo or katalox also work just fine with no stabilization. I've used khaya (African mahogany) with good results, too. For native woods, apple worked pretty well without stabilizing, too. Ditto bradford pear and citrus. I would soak the native fruitwoods in linseed oil before putting them into service, but you could probably get by without it even.
The other oil I'll use is Pure Tung Oil either straight up (soak longer) or diluted 50-50 with orange oil (for faster soaking), but that'll take a few days to cure instead of overnight like linseed oil.
Edited to add: the steak knives were a gift for opening a checking account with a bank in Minneapolis in 1982 so I would have a place to deposit my first student loan. We still use them.
Good question Dick.
I had assumed the same and vacuum resined scales for bottle openers. Later learned that while it is a good idea for grain-porous woods or woods with possible defects, hardwoods and exotics rarely benefit.
Kinda comes down to: If the wood will soak up the resin, then it probably can benefit, if it doesn't, then it didn't need it. 8^)
I had assumed the same and vacuum resined scales for bottle openers. Later learned that while it is a good idea for grain-porous woods or woods with possible defects, hardwoods and exotics rarely benefit.
Kinda comes down to: If the wood will soak up the resin, then it probably can benefit, if it doesn't, then it didn't need it. 8^)
Dick, we have a vacuum pot and Cactus juice, and a pressure pot if you have resin and want to try one or both some time. Just give me a call if you want to experiment with them.
Nick
Nick
Thanks Nick - I appreciate the offer but I have to think about it a while.Dick, we have a vacuum pot and Cactus juice, and a pressure pot if you have resin and want to try one or both some time. Just give me a call if you want to experiment with them.
Nick
- Nick424
Very interesting Dave P
If I do this project I think I'll probably use walnut and Koa. I've got some really nice curly Koa looking for a permanent home. As well, I have some strange looking walnut but it will probably need to be stabilized if for no other reason but my own peace of mind.
Going to be a week or so before a decision
If I do this project I think I'll probably use walnut and Koa. I've got some really nice curly Koa looking for a permanent home. As well, I have some strange looking walnut but it will probably need to be stabilized if for no other reason but my own peace of mind.
Going to be a week or so before a decision
I guess all of my lumber is " stabilized". I store it in an old barn.
If you want to do an experiment, cut off a small chunk of the walnut and give it a soak in canola oil (which is raw linseed oil) overnight or so. Then wipe it dry and give it a week or two to cure and see what you think. It will eventually cure, and will do so quicker if exposed to sunshine and heat. Here in NM a week on the windowsill in the summer will usually do the trick, but we have summer days with a UV factor of 14.
But if you're waiting a week or two to decide, you can run an experiment at the same time.
According to the wood database, koa is rated non-durable to perishable, so that might be worth stabilizing, too.
Edit to add: I have some spalted elm I wanted to use for a bench before I had a stabilizing setup (and it was too big). I soaked it with linseed oil three times before starting to work it, and it's held up pretty well. Not to the kind of wet a knife might see, but it was pretty punky in spots and they're fairly solid now.
But if you're waiting a week or two to decide, you can run an experiment at the same time.
According to the wood database, koa is rated non-durable to perishable, so that might be worth stabilizing, too.
Edit to add: I have some spalted elm I wanted to use for a bench before I had a stabilizing setup (and it was too big). I soaked it with linseed oil three times before starting to work it, and it's held up pretty well. Not to the kind of wet a knife might see, but it was pretty punky in spots and they're fairly solid now.
well doggone it, so many things to factor into the equasion. I guess I'm going to have to exploit Google some more
I've made lots of knives with wood scales and never had a failure yet. The wood type is a consideration for sure but so is the environment. Kitchen knife handles see a lot more moisture and acid (like from cutting fruits and vegetables) than a shop or field knife. If you were making a single knife, I'd say just try whatever you want because it's easy to replace damaged scales. But a full set is a different story since there's significantly more work involved.
If it were my set of knives, I'd probably get the wood stabilized before using it just to be on the safe side. Sounds like Nick 424 is set up to help you out with that. If he can't for some reason though and if Dave P keeps dragging his feet on setting his up ;-p, shoot me a message and I'll put you in touch with another LJ that should be able to square you away.
If you happened to have enough of that Olive wood to handle your knives, that would be my choice. That stuff makes dead sexy knife scales! But even that, I would try to get stabilized for kitchen knives. It's not rated particularly durable against moisture.
If it were my set of knives, I'd probably get the wood stabilized before using it just to be on the safe side. Sounds like Nick 424 is set up to help you out with that. If he can't for some reason though and if Dave P keeps dragging his feet on setting his up ;-p, shoot me a message and I'll put you in touch with another LJ that should be able to square you away.
If you happened to have enough of that Olive wood to handle your knives, that would be my choice. That stuff makes dead sexy knife scales! But even that, I would try to get stabilized for kitchen knives. It's not rated particularly durable against moisture.
I just looked and I've got 2 blocks of Olive wood 8 1/2" x 13" x 1 1/2" thick plus some more smaller hunks laying around. That should be plenty for what I had in mind. Problem now is that it all seems so daunting that I'm not sure I even want to attempt the project because it's so far out of my comfort zone.I ve made lots of knives with wood scales and never had a failure yet. The wood type is a consideration for sure but so is the environment. Kitchen knife handles see a lot more moisture and acid (like from cutting fruits and vegetables) than a shop or field knife. If you were making a single knife, I d say just try whatever you want because it s easy to replace damaged scales. But a full set is a different story since there s significantly more work involved.
If it were my set of knives, I d probably get the wood stabilized before using it just to be on the safe side. Sounds like Nick 424 is set up to help you out with that. If he can t for some reason though and if Dave P keeps dragging his feet on setting his up ;-p, shoot me a message and I ll put you in touch with another LJ that should be able to square you away.
If you happened to have enough of that Olive wood to handle your knives, that would be my choice. That stuff makes dead sexy knife scales! But even that, I would try to get stabilized for kitchen knives. It s not rated particularly durable against moisture.
- HokieKen
btw - once the wood is stabilized, is it more difficult to process. cut, sand, shape ?
Just pick nice solid pieces of wood. No need to stabilize unless they are punky or have other issues.
BTW, I think that canola oil is made from rapseed and linseed oil is make from flaxseed so they are different and will probably behave differently when used to treat wood. I do not think that canola is considered a drying oil like linseed is. In fact, I think that canola oil may turn rancid fairly quickly.
BTW, I think that canola oil is made from rapseed and linseed oil is make from flaxseed so they are different and will probably behave differently when used to treat wood. I do not think that canola is considered a drying oil like linseed is. In fact, I think that canola oil may turn rancid fairly quickly.
Stabilized wood is harder than non-stabilized wood, but it shapes and cuts about the same. For ring-porous woods like ash and oak, it can make quite a difference, as the pores all get filled in. For something like olive or rock maple, there's not a ton of difference between stabilized and not.
Nathan's right, canola is rapeseed, not flaxseed. Sorry I misled you on that.
Nathan's right, canola is rapeseed, not flaxseed. Sorry I misled you on that.
I want to thank everybody for their input and tips however this and all saw dust will be put on the back burner for a while.
I took my wife to the hospital today for a transthoracic echocardiogram ( throat camera to look at heart) and during the 40 minute attempt to get an iv in, her lungs fill with liquid (blood ?) and she couldn't breathe. One of the DR's came out to get me and by the time we got back to her room they had her upright and on oxygen.
Long story short - we've known for a long time that the mitro valve was leaking but it had gone from bad to worse and it is no longer an optional procedure. It has to be repaired. The problem is that no one thinks she can go thru open heart surgery and the second option (groin vein) is occupied with an obdominal pacemaker/defibrulater. So that rock and hard place is upon us and hopefully the Dr's at the Cleveland Clinic ( they put the PM in) can figure this out.
No saw dust for a while - see ya
I took my wife to the hospital today for a transthoracic echocardiogram ( throat camera to look at heart) and during the 40 minute attempt to get an iv in, her lungs fill with liquid (blood ?) and she couldn't breathe. One of the DR's came out to get me and by the time we got back to her room they had her upright and on oxygen.
Long story short - we've known for a long time that the mitro valve was leaking but it had gone from bad to worse and it is no longer an optional procedure. It has to be repaired. The problem is that no one thinks she can go thru open heart surgery and the second option (groin vein) is occupied with an obdominal pacemaker/defibrulater. So that rock and hard place is upon us and hopefully the Dr's at the Cleveland Clinic ( they put the PM in) can figure this out.
No saw dust for a while - see ya
Thoughts and prayers with you. It may take some time, but all will be fine. Be strong.
1 - 20 of 23 Posts
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