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Porter Cable 4216 Dovetail Jig And Non-PC Bits

2165 Views 26 Replies 8 Participants Last post by JohnDon, Sep 27, 2021

LGLDSR73

Discussion Starter · Sep 26, 2021 (Edited by Moderator)

Greetings,

I have the Porter Cable 4216 Dovetail Jig and PC provides two Bits (not counting the Minatare Template and 1/4" Bits):

#43776PC, 17/32", 7 degree, Dovetail Bit, 1/2" Shank

#43743PC, 13/32", Straight Bit, 1/2" Shank

I am of the belief that PC is not going to be around forever and nor can I believe that these are the only two Bits on the Planet capable of making Through Dovetails with this Jig. That said, I have reached out to Freud, Whiteside and CMT and none had comparable Bits.

Is anyone using the 4216 Jig to create Through Dovetails and not PC Bits? I've also scoured the Internet looking for a cross reference guide to no avail.

Many thanks,

Lyman

1 - 20 of 27 Posts

therealSteveN

· #2 · Sep 26, 2021

Find the sizes, and correct degrees on the DT bits, make a cheat sheet so you can then check sites at the bigger places selling bits. I know in the past they often had "sets" for PC 4212's, but in the last several years I don't see that language anymore, but all of the bits that were in the sets are still available as singles. I think they cut back on specialty packaging, but still have the inventory, just sold per piece now. I see Brian is still having bits marked as for Keller, and Akeda jigs, but they are just single bits. Maybe you are correct and B$D has ruined a good name.

I like Holbren for Whitesides.

https://www.holbren.com/dovetail-router-bits/

LittleBlackDuck

· #3 · Sep 26, 2021

Though they are not the cheapest, I'm farily confident that Leigh dovetailing bits will be around for quite a while

RichT

· #4 · Sep 26, 2021 (Edited by Moderator)

2

That said, I have reached out to Freud, Whiteside and CMT and none had comparable Bits.

- LGLDSR73

I have these.

Food Tin Font Drink Packaging and labeling

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LGLDSR73

Discussion Starter · #5 · Sep 27, 2021

Find the sizes, and correct degrees on the DT bits, make a cheat sheet so you can then check sites at the bigger places selling bits. I know in the past they often had "sets" for PC 4212 s, but in the last several years I don t see that language anymore, but all of the bits that were in the sets are still available as singles. I think they cut back on specialty packaging, but still have the inventory, just sold per piece now. I see Brian is still having bits marked as for Keller, and Akeda jigs, but they are just single bits. Maybe you are correct and B$D has ruined a good name.

I like Holbren for Whitesides.

https://www.holbren.com/dovetail-router-bits/

- therealSteveN

Thanks Steve, and thanks for the links which I will definitely check out. I'm hoping this PC Jig wasn't a mistake…I bought it pretty much specifically for Through DT''s.

Best,
Lyman

LGLDSR73

Discussion Starter · #6 · Sep 27, 2021

Find the sizes, and correct degrees on the DT bits, make a cheat sheet so you can then check sites at the bigger places selling bits. I know in the past they often had "sets" for PC 4212 s, but in the last several years I don t see that language anymore, but all of the bits that were in the sets are still available as singles. I think they cut back on specialty packaging, but still have the inventory, just sold per piece now. I see Brian is still having bits marked as for Keller, and Akeda jigs, but they are just single bits. Maybe you are correct and B$D has ruined a good name.

I like Holbren for Whitesides.

https://www.holbren.com/dovetail-router-bits/

- therealSteveN

Thanks Steve, and thanks for the links which I will definitely check out. I'm hoping this PC Jig wasn't a mistake…I bought it pretty much specifically for Through DT''s.

Best,
Lyman

LGLDSR73

Discussion Starter · #7 · Sep 27, 2021

Though they are not the cheapest, I m farily confident that Leigh dovetailing bits will be around for quite a while

- LittleBlackDuck

Thank you, Sir! I will check them out!
Best,
Lyman

LGLDSR73

Discussion Starter · #8 · Sep 27, 2021

2

That said, I have reached out to Freud, Whiteside and CMT and none had comparable Bits.

- LGLDSR73

I have these.

- Rich

Hi Rich! That's great news! You've had no issues making Through DT's with the PC Jig? I can't make out the P/N on the Whiteside, could you please provide it.

Thank you for taking the time to photograph them, really appreciated.

Best,

Lyman

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ibewjon

· #9 · Sep 27, 2021

B&D kills everything it buys. Sad.

LGLDSR73

Discussion Starter · #10 · Sep 27, 2021

B&D kills everything it buys. Sad.

- ibewjon

How true.

jonah

· #11 · Sep 27, 2021

The Whiteside looks like D7-531.

https://www.whitesiderouterbits.com/products/D7-531

There are a gazillion of those PC jigs out there (I have one). If PC goes away, somebody will be making those bits. It's a common size.

jonah

· #12 · Sep 27, 2021

Thinking back to the jig itself, I don't think there's any reason a 1/2" or 3/8" dovetail bit couldn't work, if those are easier to find.

RichT

· #13 · Sep 27, 2021 (Edited by Moderator)

Hi Rich! That s great news! You ve had no issues making Through DT s with the PC Jig? I can t make out the P/N on the Whiteside, could you please provide it.

Thank you for taking the time to photograph them, really appreciated.

- LGLDSR73

Although the Porter Cable bits included with my jig don't suck, I do find the Whiteside and Freud bits to be superior. BTW, why do I have both brands? Ever go to the store and see something you already have, but forgot you have it, so you buy another? I guess I did that.

Freud and Whiteside make both bits, and I'm sure others do as well. The critical specifications are a 7º, 17/32" dovetail bit and a 13/32" straight bit. The mini dovetail bit is 7º, 9/32" and the mini straight is an easy-to-find 3/16". That mini dovetail doesn't seem to be as common, but Amana has one that matches the specs.

The Whiteside number is D7-531. They also make the D7-530 with a 1/4" shank, if that's ever helpful. Their straight bit is the 1064A.

Freud's bits are the 22-115 dovetail and the 12-112 straight.

RichT

· #14 · Sep 27, 2021

Thinking back to the jig itself, I don t think there s any reason a 1/2" or 3/8" dovetail bit couldn t work, if those are easier to find.

- jonah

Those won't work with the PC jig. It's designed for the 7º, 17/32" bit only.

RichT

· #15 · Sep 27, 2021 (Edited by Moderator)

2

While I have my parts box out for the jig, I figured I'd share my setup block for the half-blind operation. As I've mentioned, the only factor in joint fit for the half-blind is the cut depth. Of course, if the tail board thickness changes, you have to account for that with the template location, but the cut depth will be the same.

The PC jig has a gauge on the side to set the bit depth for half-blinds. The idea is that you get the cut set up, and then adjust the stop on the gauge to it. What I don't like about that gauge is that it's small and allows the router to rock a little and that can affect the setting.

Instead I prefer this sort of block. I've made them for each of my Leigh DR4 Pro half-blind bits as well. This board is milled to the exact thickness to set the router cut depth perfectly (I just measured this one at 0.590", but you'll want to sneak up on the perfect fit on your own). I simply set it on a hard surface, and plunge the router bit down to touch, and it's set.

I use this board in my demos, and it's always perfect. No need to waste time doing a bunch of test cuts. Some seem to have difficulty comprehending that precise and repeatable settings like that are possible, but they are.

Wood Rectangle Gas Font Circle

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LGLDSR73

Discussion Starter · #16 · Sep 27, 2021

The Whiteside looks like D7-531.

https://www.whitesiderouterbits.com/products/D7-531

There are a gazillion of those PC jigs out there (I have one). If PC goes away, somebody will be making those bits. It s a common size.

- jonah

Thanks Jonah. I just heard from Whitside a moment ago and the D7-531 is not compatible with the PC 4216 Jig, only the 4210 / 4212.

Best

Lyman

LGLDSR73

Discussion Starter · #17 · Sep 27, 2021

Thinking back to the jig itself, I don t think there s any reason a 1/2" or 3/8" dovetail bit couldn t work, if those are easier to find.

- jonah

Agreed, but which one? Right now it's looking like I'm locked into PC Bits for Through DT's and I can't wrap my head around that.

Best,

Lyman

LGLDSR73

Discussion Starter · #18 · Sep 27, 2021 (Edited by Moderator)

Hi Rich! That s great news! You ve had no issues making Through DT s with the PC Jig? I can t make out the P/N on the Whiteside, could you please provide it.

Thank you for taking the time to photograph them, really appreciated.

- LGLDSR73

Although the Porter Cable bits included with my jig don t suck, I do find the Whiteside and Freud bits to be superior. BTW, why do I have both brands? Ever go to the store and see something you already have, but forgot you have it, so you buy another? I guess I did that.

Freud and Whiteside make both bits, and I m sure others do as well. The critical specifications are a 7º, 17/32" dovetail bit and a 13/32" straight bit. The mini dovetail bit is 7º, 9/32" and the mini straight is an easy-to-find 3/16". That mini dovetail doesn t seem to be as common, but Amana has one that matches the specs.

The Whiteside number is D7-531. They also make the D7-530 with a 1/4" shank, if that s ever helpful. Their straight bit is the 1064A.

Freud s bits are the 22-115 dovetail and the 12-112 straight.

- Rich

Hi Rich,
Are you sure about the Whiteside? Agreed that the specs match but I just heard from Whitside a moment ago and the D7-531 is not compatible with the PC 4216 Jig, only the 4210 / 4212.
Best ,
Lyman

EMAIL RECEIVED:

"Thank you for contacting us. Unfortunately, the D7-531 is not designed to fit the Porter Cable 4216 Dovetail Jig. I thought it was at first, but I had to double check. Let us know if you have any more questions.

Whiteside Machine"

gdaveg

· #19 · Sep 27, 2021 (Edited by Moderator)

Got the same 22-115 Freud bit that Rich has, works on the PC Jig. Not sure which PC Jig Model # is in the AZ shop and am in WA right now.

RichT

· #20 · Sep 27, 2021 (Edited by Moderator)

Are you sure about the Whiteside? Agreed that the specs match but I just heard from Whitside a moment ago and the D7-531 is not compatible with the PC 4216 Jig, only the 4210 / 4212.
Best ,
Lyman

- LGLDSR73

Yes I'm sure. That's not correct. The only difference between the three PC models is the templates that are included-the base is the same for all three. The 4210 includes the half-blind template only. The 4212 adds the through template, and the 4216 adds it and the miniature template. But, there is no difference between the half-blind and through templates that shipped with your 4216 and the templates that come with the 4210 and 4212. I hope that makes sense.

I could go buy the through dovetail template for my 4210 and it would be identical to the 4212. Same with adding a miniature template to have the 4216 miniature option. They are simply different packaging options and pricing-it's cheaper to get the templates as part of the package than to buy them individually.

My guess is that they are confused about that and figured the 4216 meant miniature dovetails, and as I said earlier, neither Whiteside nor Freud appear to make the dovetail bit for the miniature template.

1 - 20 of 27 Posts

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