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I think you are not alone on that one Wayne, it is the same I hear all over.
It is like people almost are sad that they can't take the step towards Veritas due to the design (I think at the end the handles). Since a large part of buyers of hand planes are interested in esthetics also I really understand, after all this is what most users of high quality are after, beauty and that function and form meets.
Even on the shoulder plane with wood it does not really balance with the rest of the design I think.
Sorry that the discussion here took a twist, hope it is ok.
 

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Discussion Starter · #22 ·
I am happy to see the discussion. That is the point of the post. I do think this will be a popular little plane.
 

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Mafe, this discussion is pertinent given the fact the the #3 BU plane is the reason why aesthetics came up. I agree with completely. I have the BU LA jack and when I use it I feel the QUALITY in its performance. Yet, every time I see the Lie Nielsen LA jack I regret not getting that one because it is just beautiful and I assume it performs just as well.

For instance, I was explaining there current market for hand planes to a colleague. I pulled up the LV and LN websites and show him what contemporary USA/Canadian quality manufacturing looks like and cost. He is not into woodworking and his eyes were starting to glaze over until he saw the LN LA Jack. He said "Oooo, now I like that one. Thats cool."

If I remember correctly, Pheadrus in "Zen and The Art of Motorcycle Maintenance" went crazy trying to define QUALITY. But is the sweet spot of objective performance and subjective beauty. The new Veritas LA #3 lacks the later.
 

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Hi all-

Couple of comments on plane handles.

Firstly - we can make any shape we want…and the shape we have designed is ergonomically correct for how we want the force applied by your hand to be directed through the mouth of the plane. We modelled this extensively. The handles are also designed for larger hands, and different bench heights than were used historically.

The handle is a key part of the tool - what it looks like is really secondary to us. It would have been far easier from a marketing standpoint to just copy every other handle shape out there….and settle on something far sexier in shape.

That would completely compromise our design…executed from first principles throughout the line.

Truthfully - you all should be modifying all of your tool handles to suit your own handle preferences in the first place. Any single design will only suit a part or the population in the first place. We put a lot of effort into ensuring handles on many of our tools are easy to replace….

Cheers,

Rob
(on vacation in SC)
 

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Discussion Starter · #26 ·
Rob, Thanks as well for dropping in. I really appreciate your company's contributions to the woodworking community. Please continue to innovate.
 

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Hi Topamax…

No, I'm not so sure that a Stanley plane would benefit from our tote…but just about any mass produced tote would benefit from a touch of a rasp to change the shape to suit your preference. We're all pretty hesitant to modify what we buy….the more we pay, the less likely we are to change it.

The thing about handles that fit your hand "perfectly" is that they can be very fatiguing to use. You want to ensure you don't apply constant pressure on nerves, vessels, or tendons….for the hand - you want to avoid center of the palm, and try to ensure that force is applied around the periphery of the palm…that's what lead to a more vertical design. A handle should also " massage" the blood through your tissue as you use it…which is why you often see ridges etc on hand tools ( beside ensuring a good mechanical lock )...

Glen - your catalogue should be in the mail now…...

Scott - I had no problem spotting the humor!

I appreciate all of the considered discussion here…. !

Cheers,

Rob
 

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Hi guys,

I am one big smile no worry Scott I did not take it in any bad way, and I find it wonderful to see Rob is so close to the users, this is admireable.

Rob, I hope it is clear when you read my words that I have a giant admiration for what you guys are doing, I am in the dust, that my critics are purely estetic and due to that fact that I think the rest of the plane is so dam hot that I just feel the handles stand alone, I also agree that the solution will never be to 'just' add a old Stanley shape, I think it would be all wrong even it looked sexy - laugh.

Best thoughts,
Mads
 

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Quote my self:

I more than respect Veritas, I think they are with no compare the most important plane creators since Stanley set the standard everyone just followed for so long - finally someone who had the will and the courage to go new ways, I am deeply impressed and full of respect.

Ohhh yes and I acually have a marking gauge and a Scraping plane from Vritas also.

Best thoughts,
Mads
 

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Hi Mads-

No worries…. We like to hear everyone's views…That's the most critical part of product development - using your ears, before using what's between them!

Cheers,

Rob
( enjoying happy hour at the campground in SC ….. After spending the day at Brookgreen Gardens )
 

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Rob, today I was playing in the work shop and used my dovetail saw, or shall I say your dovetail saw…
It is a Veritas, and I could not help thinking about you, that saw handle is so new and so beautiful I think.

Plant Font Carmine Metal Electric blue

If that can be ergonomic, then it must be possible to learn from that and transfere to the handplanes.

Wood Sculpture Metal Art Font

I also fixed a broken handle on one of my old Record planes and took that chance to cusomize it to me.
What I don't like on the old is that the top is too low angel and too sharp edge so it hurts the hand after some time, and also it is not balanced in design, it has no real end to it.
I think my new top made it more balanced, at least it is now a pleasure to work with…

Musical instrument Wood Automotive design Bicycle part Bumper

Here after the update.

Best thoughts,
Mads
 

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From very limited use, this plane will probably correct the sense that some users of the fullsize Bevel Up Smoother that there is a little too much weight in front. I have never personally had that complaint, so this gorgeous little smoother rates a 'nice to have' for me. I like it, but I have a bigger one already…
 

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If only to add a bit to the conversation-The handle/tote/knob on the tool is the link between the tool and the user. And most importantly the tool needs to become an extension of the users hand. If the handle is uncomfortable the tool will not give good consistant results. years ago my wife gave me a beautiful brass backed saw.The handle was most uncomfortable and I wound up not liking the saw. Some time later I had the extrordinary good fortune to purchace($6) an English dovetail saw. The user was left handed and the moment I held the saw(it fit my hand like an old familiar glove) I had to have it. I also decided to copy the handle and install it on the brass backed saw. Today I use the saw regularly because now it is an extension of my hand.
And yes I understand that mass produced items sorta have to aim for a middle ground-but if a little fine tuning or as in my case rehandling makes to tool comfortable to use,bottom line you will do better work.
tom
 

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I've just bought one of the #3 sized bevel up planes and am very pleased with it. However, one aspect of its design is confusing. The trailing edge of the moveable nosepiece has a 45-degree chamfer about 20 thou (0.5 mm) wide across its whole width. I've always thought that edge should be sharp, otherwise it's difficult to achieve the very narrow mouth required for fine work, particularly in difficult timbers.

Before I take a file to it, has anybody any thoughts regarding why I should leave it there? I would be particularly interested in Rob's views, of course.

Many thanks for your help.

Kevin
 
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