LumberJocks Woodworking Forum banner
1 - 20 of 22 Posts

· Registered
Joined
·
9 Posts
Hi everyone,

Happy New Year! Well, I need help deciding what to do. I've had a Dewalt 7480 for a few years now and I love it. Wanting something bigger, I bought a used Craftsman 221140 for about $200 on CL about a year ago. The saw runs great, but the stock fence leaves more to be desired and there is also a hump in the middle of the table. I didn't notice the hump at first, but when I put a flat bar on the table, I found it teetering ever so slightly. The hump is right in front of the blade. It is also missing the splitter and guard. Minus those things, I still like the saw.

Well, the decision I need help making is, should I keep the Craftsman or spring for something new like a Grizzly G0715P? If I buy a new fence (Delta T3 ~$200), a replacement table (~$230), and a BORK (Bolt on Riving Knife ~$210), the total price would be about ~$640. If I also sell the Craftsman for at least what I paid, that would be ~$840. The G0715P is $984, so not much difference, but it would have a good fence, flat table (hopefully), and the safety features of a riving knife/pawls/blade guard.

I've been wrestling with this dilemma for a while now, but I had a kickback incident occur yesterday while trying to cut a 1×6 board in half to 1×3 for a chair I'm making. The board was 2 feet long and I took every precaution I could think of. I'm deathly afraid of kickback. I even had a DIY steel splitter installed. The incident occurred when the front of the board cleared the blade but had yet made it to the splitter. Since the board was short, the blade was just above the board, which left a lot of space between the blade and the splitter. I guess after the cut was made, the off-cut curled enough to catch the blade. Luckily, I was using push stick and was able to push the board back down into the blade through the cut. So, it wasn't as bad as some of the videos on utube, but I did have to change my underwear after that.

In the meantime, I'll be using my 7480 until I figure out what to do. Thanks for any help you guys can provide.
 

· Registered
Joined
·
1,080 Posts
Regarding the Craftsman saw, if you are weary/hesitant when using it the don't! The hump in the table top could be contributing to the kickback. I'm probably not a good source for what to buy as I use a 1950's Craftsman 8" saw. Also I have resorted to ripping small stuff on the band saw and clean up with a hand plane.
 

· Registered
Joined
·
9,265 Posts
Keep an eye out for another CL deal with a better fence. You have been using your existing saw for a year, so a little longer shouldn't be a problem. You can then sell your existing saw to recover some or all of the money. I see those contractor saws frequently with mobile bases, biesemeyer fences, router table extensions and other stuff for about the price you paid for yours, or just slightly more - usually no more than $300-$350 at most. Who knows, you might even stumble on a cabinet saw for that amount of cash.

Cheers,
Brad
 

· Registered
Joined
·
8,321 Posts
The 22114 worth putting a T3 fence on, but I wouldn't sink much more into it. It's probably not worth fixing the hump, let alone buying a $230 table over. At most, I'd consider taking some sand paper to it at the highest spot. I've been really happy with my BORK and guard on my Shop Fox W1677, but I'd be hardpressed to sink another $210 into that saw. Have you considered just the BORK and not the guard?

With that said, I'd rather pursue another saw before I put much over a couple hundred more into the 22114…it's worth $400-$500 max in new condition even with a fence upgrade, and a splitter of some sort. The G0715P seems to be well liked these days, but I'd also consider the new G0771Z if price is a concern. I'd also be looking to see what else CL had available….the right deal on a used cabinet saw might be worth putting a BORK on. Do you have 220v?
 

· Registered
Joined
·
9 Posts
Discussion Starter · #5 ·
Regarding the Craftsman saw, if you are weary/hesitant when using it the don t! The hump in the table top could be contributing to the kickback. I m probably not a good source for what to buy as I use a 1950 s Craftsman 8" saw. Also I have resorted to ripping small stuff on the band saw and clean up with a hand plane.

- Tim Dahn
Thanks Tim. I didn't even think about the hump being a contributing factor. I'm definitely refraining from using the Craftsman. Even my wife said to not use it anymore and do what I need to do.
 

· Registered
Joined
·
147 Posts
How close is your blade parallel to the miter slots, how close is your fence parallel to the miter slots? Does your blade have minimal run-out?

If those things are dialed in, I have never had trouble with a cut like that except when I was the problem.
 

· Registered
Joined
·
9 Posts
Discussion Starter · #8 ·
Keep an eye out for another CL deal with a better fence. You have been using your existing saw for a year, so a little longer shouldn t be a problem. You can then sell your existing saw to recover some or all of the money. I see those contractor saws frequently with mobile bases, biesemeyer fences, router table extensions and other stuff for about the price you paid for yours, or just slightly more - usually no more than $300-$350 at most. Who knows, you might even stumble on a cabinet saw for that amount of cash.

Cheers,
Brad

- MrUnix
Thanks Brad. I'm an avid CL watcher and always keeping an eye out for another golden find. Even for tools I don't think I need, like another drill press, jointer, etc. You never know what you'll find. It's a good season to watch for stuff too, it being after Christmas and all. Some lucky chap has got something new and needs to sell whatever it's replacing.
 

· Registered
Joined
·
9 Posts
Discussion Starter · #9 ·
The 22114 worth putting a T3 fence on, but I wouldn t sink much more into it. It s probably not worth fixing the hump, let alone buying a $230 table over. At most, I d consider taking some sand paper to it at the highest spot. I ve been really happy with my BORK and guard on my Shop Fox W1677, but I d be hardpressed to sink another $210 into that saw. Have you considered just the BORK and not the guard?

With that said, I d rather pursue another saw before I put much over a couple hundred more into the 22114…it s worth $400-$500 max in new condition even with a fence upgrade, and a splitter of some sort. The G0715P seems to be well liked these days, but I d also consider the new G0771Z if price is a concern. I d also be looking to see what else CL had available….the right deal on a used cabinet saw might be worth putting a BORK on. Do you have 220v?

- knotscott
Thanks Scott. I think I could live without a new fence, but it's just so cumbersome working with the stock fence. It's not impossible, just cumbersome. A First World problem I guess. As far as the table goes, from the left side of the insert, the table seems to drop down. 16 inches out to the left end of the tabletop, the table drops down 1/8". I don't think that it affects smaller cuts much, but I'm concerned about larger cuts, like breaking down plywood. As far as 220v, I recently moved into the house and plan on upgrading the electrical, to also include 220v. I'm actually supposed to be calling around this week for quotes from electricians. So hopefully, this month I'll have 220v in the garage and a panel ready for a dedicated workshop in the back in the near future (hopefully). For the BORK and not the guard, I liked the idea of DC at the blade, but I guess that's another First World problem.
 

· Registered
Joined
·
9 Posts
How close is your blade parallel to the miter slots, how close is your fence parallel to the miter slots? Does your blade have minimal run-out?

If those things are dialed in, I have never had trouble with a cut like that except when I was the problem.

- OSB
OSB, the blade and miter slot are pretty parallel and my runout is sitting at 0.003-ish. That's one reason why I like the 221140, cabinet mounted trunnion for easy alignment. As for the fence and the right side miter slot, from the front of the table to the back of the table, I'm at 0.005 - 0.008. It deflects as you push on it hard. I was using my fence when the kickback occurred, so maybe my fence deflected enough to cause the kickback.
 

· Registered
Joined
·
9 Posts
Discussion Starter · #12 ·
WELL! If you got the OK from the wife then that changes everything :)

- Tim Dahn
I was discussing the issues with the saw with the wife again and she brought up a good point. Instead of trying to make this saw the way I want it, why not just get a new saw that's already the way I want it and I wouldn't have to worry about the motor or any other part failing due to the age of the saw. I know it's a pretty heafty saw and the probability of any other part failing is slim, minus the motor going out. I also know that new doesn't always mean better. I could also end up with a whole new set of problems.
 

· Registered
Joined
·
8,321 Posts
I suspect that bork creates more problem than it solves. It is nowhere rigid enough to be used ouside of youtube. Now one thing is a flying piece of wood and completely another flying piece of metal.

- Carloz
I'm not sure what you've read or experienced with the BORK to prompt that statement, but the BORK went through several design upgrades a few years ago. I've used just about every version that was made available since it was introduced. It's now made of stainless steel, comes with a calibration gauge to ensure good setup, and is made so that it can't contact the blade. I'm not suggesting he sink over $400 into his current saw, but the BORK works and works well once setup properly.
 

· Registered
Joined
·
5,996 Posts
I was discussing the issues with the saw with the wife again and she brought up a good point. Instead of trying to make this saw the way I want it, why not just get a new saw that s already the way I want it and I wouldn t have to worry about the motor or any other part failing due to the age of the saw…
- squaredwobble
This is solely my opinion, but noticed two things about your situation:
  • You are now looking at buying your THIRD tablesaw
  • You are still restricting yourself to the cheapest product of your chosen brand (Grizzly)

Sure, the above would technically be a step up for you, but not much of one IMO. If I were you, I would be looking AT LEAST at either the # G1023RLW ($1,584.00 delivered) or the # G0690 ($1,734.00 delivered).

I am NOT wishing for you to go broke, just trying to help you to not need to replace your tablesaw again, in a few years. IMO, bite the bullet and buy yourself a lifetime tablesaw now. After all your first TWO have already nickel-dimed you with added costs and/or poor performance from what it appears.

NOTE: We are NOT talking about $3,000-$4,000 saws here, just not bottom-feeding, where problems seem to pop up more frequently. Again, this is only my opinion…
 

· Registered
Joined
·
1,143 Posts
I suspect that bork creates more problem than it solves. It is nowhere rigid enough to be used ouside of youtube. Now one thing is a flying piece of wood and completely another flying piece of metal.
- Carloz
I m not sure what you ve read or experienced with the BORK to prompt that statement
- knotscott
I do not remember but a quick google search point back to lj: Scary stuff.
But my post was not based on that specific one. I quick glance at the bork design showed it should not be used. I did not try to check the latest updates.

Update: I actually read a few posts from that thread and see that the bork inventor always blames the customers for improperly using it.
Update 2: I see that knotscott was part of that conversation ;-)
 

· Registered
Joined
·
44 Posts
WELL! If you got the OK from the wife then that changes everything :)

- Tim Dahn

I was discussing the issues with the saw with the wife again and she brought up a good point. Instead of trying to make this saw the way I want it, why not just get a new saw that s already the way I want it and I wouldn t have to worry about the motor or any other part failing due to the age of the saw. I know it s a pretty heafty saw and the probability of any other part failing is slim, minus the motor going out. I also know that new doesn t always mean better. I could also end up with a whole new set of problems.

- squaredwobble
Sounds like you have the green light for a good saw they way you want it….Congrats….LOL
 

· Registered
Joined
·
147 Posts
How close is your blade parallel to the miter slots, how close is your fence parallel to the miter slots? Does your blade have minimal run-out?

If those things are dialed in, I have never had trouble with a cut like that except when I was the problem.

- OSB

OSB, the blade and miter slot are pretty parallel and my runout is sitting at 0.003-ish. That s one reason why I like the 221140, cabinet mounted trunnion for easy alignment. As for the fence and the right side miter slot, from the front of the table to the back of the table, I m at 0.005 - 0.008. It deflects as you push on it hard. I was using my fence when the kickback occurred, so maybe my fence deflected enough to cause the kickback.

- squaredwobble
That cut shouldn't require enough force to deflect the fence very much.

Pretty parallel doesn't sound very exact…

I hope that most people doing woodwork have some good mechanical inclination. That hopefully is enough to adjust the blade parallel to the miter slots and then really figure out your fence so you understand how it locks, any issues that might allow deflection and how to adjust it.

If you have any difficulty with that, I suggest you take the time to really tune up your saw and fence, maybe get a new blade.

If you get a new saw and are shaky on the setup, it might not be any better.

If you dial in your saw you might find that solves your problem or narrows down the cause to one thing.

The reason why I say this is that a cheap saw with an OK to good setup should have no problem with that cut and an expensive saw mostly makes the cut easier and feel nice doing it. The real reason some people need an expensive saw is if they need to make difficult cuts or near production level volume of cuts.
 

· Registered
Joined
·
9 Posts
Discussion Starter · #18 ·
I was discussing the issues with the saw with the wife again and she brought up a good point. Instead of trying to make this saw the way I want it, why not just get a new saw that s already the way I want it and I wouldn t have to worry about the motor or any other part failing due to the age of the saw…
- squaredwobble

This is solely my opinion, but noticed two things about your situation:
  • You are now looking at buying your THIRD tablesaw
  • You are still restricting yourself to the cheapest product of your chosen brand (Grizzly)

Sure, the above would technically be a step up for you, but not much of one IMO. If I were you, I would be looking AT LEAST at either the # G1023RLW ($1,584.00 delivered) or the # G0690 ($1,734.00 delivered).

I am NOT wishing for you to go broke, just trying to help you to not need to replace your tablesaw again, in a few years. IMO, bite the bullet and buy yourself a lifetime tablesaw now. After all your first TWO have already nickel-dimed you with added costs and/or poor performance from what it appears.

NOTE: We are NOT talking about $3,000-$4,000 saws here, just not bottom-feeding, where problems seem to pop up more frequently. Again, this is only my opinion…

- HorizontalMike
Thanks Mike. You bring up a very good point. A point that I've learned and am still learning. The 7480 was my first saw for little projects around the house and to see if how I would like woodworking. It's reliable as heck but leaves more to be desired, especially when building anything more than a bench. I've since fell in love with woodworking and the Craftsman was my delve into bigger projects. I was hoping that it would last me for a while. I will definitely consider more of a "lifetime" saw. Thanks for bringing that to my attention.
 

· Registered
Joined
·
9 Posts
Discussion Starter · #19 ·
How close is your blade parallel to the miter slots, how close is your fence parallel to the miter slots? Does your blade have minimal run-out?

If those things are dialed in, I have never had trouble with a cut like that except when I was the problem.

- OSB

OSB, the blade and miter slot are pretty parallel and my runout is sitting at 0.003-ish. That s one reason why I like the 221140, cabinet mounted trunnion for easy alignment. As for the fence and the right side miter slot, from the front of the table to the back of the table, I m at 0.005 - 0.008. It deflects as you push on it hard. I was using my fence when the kickback occurred, so maybe my fence deflected enough to cause the kickback.

- squaredwobble

That cut shouldn t require enough force to deflect the fence very much.

Pretty parallel doesn t sound very exact…

I hope that most people doing woodwork have some good mechanical inclination. That hopefully is enough to adjust the blade parallel to the miter slots and then really figure out your fence so you understand how it locks, any issues that might allow deflection and how to adjust it.

If you have any difficulty with that, I suggest you take the time to really tune up your saw and fence, maybe get a new blade.

If you get a new saw and are shaky on the setup, it might not be any better.

If you dial in your saw you might find that solves your problem or narrows down the cause to one thing.

The reason why I say this is that a cheap saw with an OK to good setup should have no problem with that cut and an expensive saw mostly makes the cut easier and feel nice doing it. The real reason some people need an expensive saw is if they need to make difficult cuts or near production level volume of cuts.

- OSB
My apologies OSB. What I meant as pretty parallel was that given the variations of my dial indicators and dial calipers I used for my initial setup and a tune up about a year later, my readings fell between 0.001 to 0.005. However, I've ran a couple hundred bf through it and this was the only incident and everything else ran fine. What I'm more concerned about is what could help mitigate any future incidents, like the safety features of more current saws and a solid fence. Things that would help me keep my fingers, aside from tuning. I'm not saying that tuning is not important, but I just don't believe my tuning was a factor in the incident. ...and yes, I use dial calipers for tuning and recheck with dial indicators.
 

· Registered
Joined
·
9,265 Posts
Luckily, I was using push stick and was able to push the board back down into the blade through the cut.
That is not a kickback.. but it is an indication of improper technique, and could have easily become a much worse situation. Namely, you should always maintain downward force on the stock, either with something like a push shoe (not push stick) or featherboards. The wood will try to climb the blade regardless of having a splitter/riving knife.

Cheers,
Brad
 
1 - 20 of 22 Posts
This is an older thread, you may not receive a response, and could be reviving an old thread. Please consider creating a new thread.
Top