[mikey78]

Hello you all !!!

I've recently posted about a set of 5 Marples gouges (sweep 8, raising from 1/4" to 1" )
that I'm restoring :

I'm also in the process of building a custom box for my Stanley 45 combination plane
that I'd really like to embellish by carving on the lid of the box this :

.... while this would go on the sides :

I'm a total newbie in letter carving but I'm not afraid of challenging projects,
this is why I've searched you tube for letter carving videos and have found
that this carving technique :

shown by David Reilly, is quite common .

 

[mikey78]

The point is , other than the skills, do I have the right tools for the job ?

It looks to me that the answer is : No, I don't.
I know that some people are able to accomplish the task with a simple utility knife ...

... but I would rather buy a few more gouges (let's say 4 or 5) to better suit the job.
In my area I have access to pfeil gouges that are available in different sizes and sweep,
and have selected a few that seem a good choice :
3F/6
3F/12 (or 14)
5F/6
5F/12 (or 14)
1F/8
First number is the sweep, F indicates that are fishtail type, after the slash comes width in mm ....

I could be completely off with my selection so before buying what are your thoughts ?

 

[Phil32]

The answers you may receive will be based on the skill level of each responder. Your choice should be based on your skill level. If you haven't determined that, you should first do some practice letter carving with the tools you have. Not just one, but several. Try a utility knife and a chip carving knife. Try incised letters and raised letters. Serifed letters and non-serif letters. When you are completely satisfied with your practice boards, you will know what tools to use, and you may be ready to start the logo on your Stanley 45 box.

 

[DanKrager]

A solid chip carving knife is a good investment. A utility blade has relatively steep angles sharpened on both sides and is pretty flexible. Combined with a loose fit in the bulky handle, you may find it hard to control. Incised lettering is much easier than raised lettering IMHO. Using chip carving techniques, incised lettering is fast and clean even with serifs. Curved grooves take a LOT of practice to get smooth, partly because of grain direction changes, partly because of technique.
Phil has good advice.
DanK

 

[Phil32]

Mikey78 - Both of the videos describe incised, V-shaped forms of carved lettering. Although it's the easiest to learn, it would be difficult to apply to the Stanley Tool logo. The letters do not have a center line. They could be done as flat-bottomed recessed letters, or as raised letters.

But, getting back to the tools: The techniques shown by David Reilly would be very difficult to do with the fishtail gouges. The straight strokes call for #1 tools or knives. The curved strokes would require curved profiles matching the chosen font. A letter "S" may have several different curves. Reilly mentions using a knife with special attention to grain direction and smoothness.

These are the skills that I was recommending you practice. Unfortunately carving tools do not come with the skills built in.

 

[mikey78]

First of all, thankyou for chimeing in !!!

Stanley Tool logo. The letters do not have a center line.

Yeah ... I suspected that ...

They could be done as flat-bottomed recessed letters, or as raised letters.

While I can quite figure out the meticolous process involved in a raised letters choice
I'm quite perplex about how to get a "flat bottom" in recessed letters, can you help ?

A solid chip carving knife is a good investment

I was pondering this choice but have seen many blade shapes ...

Other than personal feeling is there any shape better suited for letter carving ?

Thanks !!!

 

[Phil32]

The Stanley Tools logo has a black rectangle with notched corners. Think of the rectangle as 1/8" or 1/16" thick. The white letters can be cut through that rectangle or added on top. To carve the letters into or through the rectangle, make vertical cuts around each letter with a knife or gouges held vertically. Remove all the wood inside the outline. A spoon bent gouge or skew might be needed for the flattening cuts on the bottom of the recess.
But why carve that into your box lid. Why not cut the black rectangle out of veneer and scroll saw the letters out? Applique it onto your box lid. Pay attention to "floating" pieces in this scrolling approach.
Knives - A stiff, straight edge is best for straight letter strokes and vertical stop cuts. A narrow blade is better for curving letter strokes.

Scrolled design

Raised letters

 

[Phil32]

This link (sent before) is an example of raised lettering:

Relief of Scott Kim design

Phil32's Project

www.lumberjocks.com

The letters were outlined with a vertical stop cut, then the wood outside the letter outline was removed, including between letter segments. The face of the letters was embellished with a centerline and small shapes, but they're still examples of raised letters.

 

[DanKrager]

Mikey78, the knives #4 (or #2? Pfeil) and #9 are pretty universal for chip carving. All the others are tweaked to perform some task better than others. #9 is a stab knife and makes decorative impressions and doesn't cut a chip out. So #4 (or the Pfeil) would be a good starting tool. A surprising portion of carving is knife maintenance, especially in difficult woods and very soft woods. Learn the fettling well.
DanK

 

[Phil32]

Mikey78 - The more I study the Stanley Tools logo the more I'm convinced it should be scroll-sawed & appliqued on the box. To make it fancy, you could rout the space for the rectangle into the box lid. You could also scroll-saw the white letters to fit the scroll-sawed openings in the rectangle (like intarzia.) It would end up looking better than carving. The box end logos could also be insets.

 

[ClaudeF]

I agree with Phil - trying to carve it would likely be a major disappointment, while a scroll sawed relief or intarsia would look great!

Claude

 

[mikey78]

Hope you guys don't mind me replying so late ... anyway thanks for giving me your advice !!!

You could also scroll-saw the white letters to fit the scroll-sawed openings in the rectangle (like intarzia.)

Thankyou Phil32 for suggesting this "scrolling approach",
your suggestion opened up an unknown world of possibilities !!!

So #4 (or the Pfeil) would be a good starting tool.

Thankyou Dan for the enlightenment on the knife thing !!!

At this point I just need to make-up my mind about what to do,
The scrolling approach would probably end up with a faithful reproduction of the Stanley logo, this is a fact ...
On the other side I could go for a simplified design :

... in a notched rectangle, with a drop of paint in the recessed areas !!!

I think this is might be doable with a few gouges and
by using the basic V-shaped form of carved lettering (Am I right ?) .

 

[DanKrager]

I really like the scroll saw suggestion. I have done a LOT of scroll saw work over the years and continue to be impressed with the capability of that tool. If you can draw a line, those blades can follow it and in some cases leave ink on both sides of the cut. Suggestion: you'll want some pretty thin material for these...1/8" or less and it gets hard to control the cut precisely, even with tiny blades. I discovered that 3 mm Finnish plywood stacked three deep will reliably produce one chip free copy of very tiny stuff...less than 1/4 sq in (as opposed to 1/4" square) using blades as small as 00. The extra layers help with controlling the cut. Can't rush it. Solid wood (any species) gets very fragile and finicky (even if layered) at this size. I would use a 0 or 1 size blade on the size pattern shown.

If you decide to incise these letters, the design shown is good. You will perhaps find it helpful (I do) to carefully ink a fine centerline in each stroke of the letter, including the little triangles (bottom of cut) that chip carving is going to produce. You will have to decide, too, how to handle the difference in stroke width. Traditional chip carving maintains constant wall angles which leads to deeper cuts on the wide strokes. This leads to interesting intersections where the centerline is especially helpful. I've tried keeping constant depths by changing the wall angles, but that is very hard and doesn't look as good IMHO. Sometimes I'll use a V carving tool on the long straight cuts to help my relatively inexperienced chip carving hand, but that's cheating in some kerbschnitt circles!

Getting paint to look good in the incised cut is a whole nother story. A smooth cut is critical...you can't effectively sand the walls. You will want to seal the wood thoroughly with shellac or other clear finish before applying the color. This will eliminate the dreaded incurable bleeding that causes heartbreaking do-overs. Masking of any quality does not entirely stop bleeding but if the paint is sprayed in light coats that don't get "wet", it helps. In that case, apply the mask before cutting the letters. I have used clear SA shelf paper for mask and the cutting action helps seal the critical edge. So even if you cut through a mask, several good seal coats will be preventive. And don't even think of a dye type color medium, e.g. food coloring or aniline dye.

DanK

 

[halfacre]

Hello you all !!!

I've recently posted about a set of 5 Marples gouges (sweep 8, raising from 1/4" to 1" )
that I'm restoring :

View attachment 3870897


I'm also in the process of building a custom box for my Stanley 45 combination plane
that I'd really like to embellish by carving on the lid of the box this :

View attachment 3870898

.... while this would go on the sides :

View attachment 3870899

I'm a total newbie in letter carving but I'm not afraid of challenging projects,
this is why I've searched you tube for letter carving videos and have found
that this carving technique :

shown by David Reilly, is quite common .

Mickey, My answer will give you something else to think about so I will say after I get a name glued to a piece of wood it will take about 1/2 hour to saw the name out with a scroll saw using a # 5 flying dutchman scroll saw blade... It will be very smooth on all the sides of the wood and since I use a reverse tooth blade it is supposed to keep the bottom of the wood clean but I will always have a few strings sticking out and a tooth brush is my go to tool to remove those but a person could use some very fine sand paper. I will also add if someone uses a large tooth blade his work will look terrible as to want a # 5 will give him.
All this takes is the right size picture you end up with. Something like this wife's name.

Plus I don't have any knives to have to sharpen all the time.

halfacre

 

[halfacre]

Mickey, My answer will give you something else to think about so I will say after I get a name glued to a piece of wood it will take about 1/2 hour to saw the name out with a scroll saw using a # 5 flying dutchman scroll saw blade... It will be very smooth on all the sides of the wood and since I use a reverse tooth blade it is supposed to keep the bottom of the wood clean but I will always have a few strings sticking out and a tooth brush is my go to tool to remove those but a person could use some very fine sand paper. I will also add if someone uses a large tooth blade his work will look terrible as to want a # 5 will give him.
All this takes is the right size picture you end up with. Something like this wife's name. View attachment 3871426
Plus I don't have any knives to have to sharpen all the time.

halfacre

Plus the flat bottom is automatically there and a couple of pin nails of the smallest gage with very little glue using a tooth pick put just a very small amount along each letter ......halfacre again.

Yes, I'm trying to let the real carvers see where my way of carving can solve lots of time removing the wood around what they want to end up with.

 

[halfacre]

Plus the flat bottom is automatically there and a couple of pin nails of the smallest gage with very little glue using a tooth pick put just a very small amount along each letter ......halfacre again.

Yes, I'm trying to let the real carvers see where my way of carving can solve lots of time removing the wood around what they want to end up with.

Mickey, something else. When I print out the letters they are all separate letters. so for just straight line of a name I will add a little wood under all the way to tie the individual letters together, other wise it is almost impossible to glue all in a perfect line. I used a program Rapid Resizer to put a curve in Bernadette to match the top of my carving to make it look better.

 

[Phil32]

For this project, a box holding an antique rabbet & fillister plane, the original Stanley Tools logo is perfect. The connection of the descender (tail) of the "Y" to the crossbar of the "T" is typical of typography prior to computers and discrete (separate) letters. The font itself is similar to Black Letter which comes from a time of hand lettering. The alternative in Roman (serifed) letters would be much more difficult to carve or scrollsaw.