[wilschroter]

I noticed on a nice dresser I have that the drawer fronts were actually integrated with the drawer box versus being separated. I really like this design, and I happen to have a CNC machine that I could use to do a custom dado in a drawer front.

Am I going to run into problems when I go to actually install this drawer (final alignment) or is this something I can make adjustments with at the drawer slide level? This "seems" like a good design and of course my furniture is perfectly aligned, but I'm wondering if I'm creating problems for myself with having the drawer face "hard coded" to the drawer box.

 

[ajosephg]

The only problem I see is that the front is subject to "falling off" unless reinforced with additional hardware.

 

[wilschroter]

@ajosephg do you think with wood glue that would be a long term issue? I only ask because we're talking about a 5/8" drawer front end grain going into a 1/4" deep dado. These are clothing drawers not utility drawers so probably not an insanely heavy load but I'd like to be mindful.

I've seen this same design done with a dovetail groove going from the bottom part of the drawer front to the upper part but creating dovetail grooves and shaping the drawer sides to fit just felt like way more work for a simple design.

 

[bondogaposis]

I think that would be a weak design. The glue joints for the front are all end grain and with the the stress on opening drawers repeatedly the fronts are likely to fall off.

 

[JackDuren]

It should be dovetailed…

 

[wilschroter]

@bondogaposis How weak are the glue joints really? I'm not married to this design at all but every demonstration I ever see around wood glue is that it's "as strong as wood". I can definitely see glue failing in theory but in practice do we see a lot of this happening?

 

[JackDuren]

@bondogaposis How weak are the glue joints really? I'm not married to this design at all but every demonstration I ever see around wood glue is that it's "as strong as wood". I can definitely see glue failing in theory but in practice do we see a lot of this happening?

What’s to keep you from yanking the drawer front off over time?

You need a sliding dovetail in the front..

The technique is use by production furniture makers..

 

[BigMig]

You don't see it because even large production furniture companies use locking joinery - not the stub joinery in your drawing. Look up lock miters, and drawer joinery and you'll see joints that rely on mechanical and glue strength.

Think about the force of opening a drawer that has contents - and you'll envision the forces on the stub joinery above. It's just not advisable...

 

[wilschroter]

OK definitely enough signals here to suggest it's not worth cheating on that last step re: holding the front together.

However my other question was how much trouble do I get myself into with attaching the drawer face to the drawer itself versus having a drawer face independent of the drawer box? Can I make the adjustments at the drawer slide level, assuming I have something like a Blum under mount drawer?

 

[JackDuren]

Just use a 4 piece box with front..

 

[wilschroter]

I'm not a fan of the "double front" design which is what intrigued me about this. The dresser that I mentioned looks incredibly clean from a design standpoint and of course it loses some of the weight which is always a plus.

 

[JackDuren]

I'm not a fan of the "double front" design which is what intrigued me about this. The dresser that I mentioned looks incredibly clean from a design standpoint and of course it loses some of the weight which is always a plus.

Then do it correctly..Don’t cheat..

 

[rwe2156]

I'm not a fan of the "double front" design which is what intrigued me about this. The dresser that I mentioned looks incredibly clean from a design standpoint and of course it loses some of the weight which is always a plus.

I don't see any significance to those two factors. Maybe furniture, but this is a utility drawer. The one big advantage to applied fronts is you can align them after the drawers are mounted, ensuring perfect gaps.

A simple rabbet with dowels or trim screws and plugs are very easy/strong ways to make a drawer. Sliding dovetails are great, but fiddly and you need a good set up to make them. Not the first choice for anyone I know. SD in a 10" high drawer?

 

[LeeRoyMan]

To answer your question about adjustment, here is the Blum specs.

If you think about it, most of the stress on a drawer front is when it slams closed and the front hits the cabinet, not when it is being opened. With a soft close guide such as Blum it eliminates that.

The way you are showing it is not as good as dovetailed, but if it's glued good, and you could toenail some brads from both directions I don't think you would have a problem.

 

[JackDuren]

I don't see any significance to those two factors. Maybe furniture, but this is a utility drawer. The one big advantage to applied fronts is you can align them after the drawers are mounted, ensuring perfect gaps.

A simple rabbet with dowels or trim screws and plugs are very easy/strong ways to make a drawer. Sliding dovetails are great, but fiddly and you need a good set up to make them. Not the first choice for anyone I know. SD in a 10" high drawer?

. “Maybe furniture, but this is a utility drawer.”

Bit confusing?


Time to learn…

 

[MadMark]

No. Damage comes when something in the drawer pops up, catches, and keeps the drawer from opening. Then the (ab)user yanks on the drawer until the front comes off or the drawer breaks. DAMHIKT
You cannot tell a box with a separate front from one with an integrated front when the drawer is closed. The separate front makes face alignment simple.
End grain joints are weak. The simple butt joint may not even survive installation.
Vertical dovetails are OK, but fussy to set up and dial in for ONE drawer. Horizontal dovetails are traditional and used because they don't break as often as any other joint.

 

[JackDuren]

Must be why cabinet makers don’t make good furniture makers…

 

[LesB]

If it is any concession I have made this type of drawer (before my work became more sophisticated) with rabbet lap joints and had them last over 40 years with no glue failures. I'm still using two large chest of drawers made that way.

In your illustration I would make the dados a little deeper (3/8") to give a bit more glue surface. I serously doubt you will ever have a problem if well glued with Titebond (polyvinyl acetate). There are tests that have shown butt glue joints made with PVA can be stronger than the wood used. Failures were common when hide glue was used for making furniture hence the more complicated joinery needed.
Your alignment problem will be related to how accurate your construction is and if you use solid wood you can make small adjustments with a hand plane.

 

[Sark]

Agree with Les. Make the dados a little deeper, and you will have a permanent connection. Where I’ve seen drawer fronts fail, is not from pulling, but from being smacked by the cabinet when the drawer is slammed shut.

You haven’t said what type of hardware you plan on using…not clear if the drawer is inset or overlaying. The joint you propose is plenty strong if the drawer closes gently or if the drawer is stopped by a stop that pushes on on the drawer box part somehow. The idea is to not use the drawer front to stop the drawer unless hardware ensures a gentle stop.

 

[wilschroter]

I'm planning on using Blum undermount slides which are new to me. I understand that they have a fair bit of micro-adjustment which I thought could potentially offset any discrepancies in my cabinet dimensions, either through poor workmanship on my part or just the material shifting with temperatures and such.

The whole "this is how to align drawer fonts" process to me seems bizarrely complicated/tedious for what it is and I keep thinking there is a way to "out engineer" the process through a different approach to engineering and construction.

Aside from the look of an integrated drawer front I also liked the idea that I could get all of my alignment between the drawer and the front done at the construction level and then isolate adjustments to the drawer slides.