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Perfect Splined Mitre Joints in Five Minutes Without Clamps

When I posted "Arnie's Tea Box" http://lumberjocks.com/projects/50187 one of the comments (Roger) was that these boxes make a great venue for displaying my marquetry. I totally agree but that meant streamlining the process of making the box. First was to come up with a jig to make the corners perfect every time quickly.

Here is what I came up with.

Disclaimer: I'm not a jig person so my jigs are usually utilitarian and often "throw away".

This photo shows the parts disassembled. Dimensions are irrelevant and I didn't take any so even I don't know them.
Wood Rectangle Hardwood Flooring Beige


Here the base piece has been turned right side up. The groove is for the pin in the top part. The cutouts at the apex are to insure that no glue contacts the jig.

Wood Triangle Rectangle Table Clock


Assemble the top part onto the bolt and adjust so that the spaces on the sides fit your stock width. Then slide the pieces of your box together until they match perfectly.

Wood Rectangle Gadget Beige Hardwood


Now remove one piece without moving the other. Coat the end with hot hide glue….Oh yes, this is a commercial for hide glue, sorry. But please bear with me.

Wood Textile Drinkware Dishware Serveware


Slide the piece back in and as the jig does most of the work, simply squeeze the top of the joint for about 15 seconds or so.

Wood Nail Thumb Finger Material property


This is the joint removed from the jig about 30 to 45 seconds after the glue was applied. It's already strong enough to hold together.

Furniture Wood Table Outdoor furniture Chair


A minute later it is strong enough to have it's spline grooves cut.

Wood Rectangle Triangle Flooring Hardwood

Wood Triangle Flooring Hardwood Plywood

Rectangle Wood Triangle Shipping box Packing materials


A little more hide glue on the splines and slip them into place.

Wood Flooring Hardwood Composite material Rectangle


In the time it takes to walk over to the band saw the splines are glued well enough to trim off.

Wood Rectangle Hardwood Beige Flooring


The glue is easy to rub off with your finger. It will ball up like rubber cement. You can throw it back in the pot if it's not too contaminated with sawdust. Then you can sand the joint and you're done. The elapsed time between this photo and the one where the pieces were dry fitted is under five minutes and with the splines now in place the piece is strong enough to continue to handle and work with.

Automotive lighting Rectangle Wood Flooring Bumper


Of course in real life it is not necessary to get things done this quickly. Pieces can sit while others are fitted and glued, but this is how fast it can be done.

This joint is perfectly square, both vertically and horizontally, despite the fact that if you look closely, my "hot off the miter saw" cut was not.

That's it
I made a jig. Who would have thought.

Thanks

Comments, questions, critiques are always welcome.

Paul
Peter…

Welcome Aboard !!

Enjoy!
 

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In Loving Memory
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Perfect Splined Mitre Joints in Five Minutes Without Clamps

When I posted "Arnie's Tea Box" http://lumberjocks.com/projects/50187 one of the comments (Roger) was that these boxes make a great venue for displaying my marquetry. I totally agree but that meant streamlining the process of making the box. First was to come up with a jig to make the corners perfect every time quickly.

Here is what I came up with.

Disclaimer: I'm not a jig person so my jigs are usually utilitarian and often "throw away".

This photo shows the parts disassembled. Dimensions are irrelevant and I didn't take any so even I don't know them.
Wood Rectangle Hardwood Flooring Beige


Here the base piece has been turned right side up. The groove is for the pin in the top part. The cutouts at the apex are to insure that no glue contacts the jig.

Wood Triangle Rectangle Table Clock


Assemble the top part onto the bolt and adjust so that the spaces on the sides fit your stock width. Then slide the pieces of your box together until they match perfectly.

Wood Rectangle Gadget Beige Hardwood


Now remove one piece without moving the other. Coat the end with hot hide glue….Oh yes, this is a commercial for hide glue, sorry. But please bear with me.

Wood Textile Drinkware Dishware Serveware


Slide the piece back in and as the jig does most of the work, simply squeeze the top of the joint for about 15 seconds or so.

Wood Nail Thumb Finger Material property


This is the joint removed from the jig about 30 to 45 seconds after the glue was applied. It's already strong enough to hold together.

Furniture Wood Table Outdoor furniture Chair


A minute later it is strong enough to have it's spline grooves cut.

Wood Rectangle Triangle Flooring Hardwood

Wood Triangle Flooring Hardwood Plywood

Rectangle Wood Triangle Shipping box Packing materials


A little more hide glue on the splines and slip them into place.

Wood Flooring Hardwood Composite material Rectangle


In the time it takes to walk over to the band saw the splines are glued well enough to trim off.

Wood Rectangle Hardwood Beige Flooring


The glue is easy to rub off with your finger. It will ball up like rubber cement. You can throw it back in the pot if it's not too contaminated with sawdust. Then you can sand the joint and you're done. The elapsed time between this photo and the one where the pieces were dry fitted is under five minutes and with the splines now in place the piece is strong enough to continue to handle and work with.

Automotive lighting Rectangle Wood Flooring Bumper


Of course in real life it is not necessary to get things done this quickly. Pieces can sit while others are fitted and glued, but this is how fast it can be done.

This joint is perfectly square, both vertically and horizontally, despite the fact that if you look closely, my "hot off the miter saw" cut was not.

That's it
I made a jig. Who would have thought.

Thanks

Comments, questions, critiques are always welcome.

Paul
Thanks for bringing this to our attention and proving your point with those great videos Paul. Besides the strength factor, Just the speed and the lack of need for clamps should convince just about any woodworker to use hide glue. Your miter jig is pretty cool too. I have identified some European suppliers who also sell electric glue pots ( our power is DC here), so I can see myself getting into this pretty darn soon. Your blog here is a wonderful contribution towards making woodworking easier and more productive for your fellow LJ members. Thanks again, this info is much appreciated!
 

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Discussion Starter · #23 ·
Take it From a Real Expert

I promised in a recent construction series about my current project to do a "how to get started in hide glue" tutorial, but in researching for useful photos and making sure my facts were correct, I took a second look at a series of videos with Patrick Edwards on Kieth Cruickshank's "Woodtreks" blog. I decided that if you want to learn about hide glue I'll let a real expert tell you about it and in video at that.

You may want to watch these several times. I still pick up tips every time I watch them and I've been using hide glue almost daily for a couple of years plus I've had this talk from Patrick in person at his American School Of French Marquetry. He is as knowledgeable on this subject as anyone in the country and commonly says that he'll change glues as soon as someone can prove theirs is superior. He'll also tell you that in the thirty odd years he's been saying that …. no one has.

So here's a link to a LOT of knowledge about hide glue from a true expert.

Enjoy, and I'll field any questions I can and throw in a few photos and whatnot as (if) this develops.

Paul

P.S. I probably should have checked first. There are already several good blogs and articles on LJ's ( search: Hide Glue) so there's another resource. I suppose it's good to bring it up again once in a while if only to have someone to throw questions at.
 

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Take it From a Real Expert

I promised in a recent construction series about my current project to do a "how to get started in hide glue" tutorial, but in researching for useful photos and making sure my facts were correct, I took a second look at a series of videos with Patrick Edwards on Kieth Cruickshank's "Woodtreks" blog. I decided that if you want to learn about hide glue I'll let a real expert tell you about it and in video at that.

You may want to watch these several times. I still pick up tips every time I watch them and I've been using hide glue almost daily for a couple of years plus I've had this talk from Patrick in person at his American School Of French Marquetry. He is as knowledgeable on this subject as anyone in the country and commonly says that he'll change glues as soon as someone can prove theirs is superior. He'll also tell you that in the thirty odd years he's been saying that …. no one has.

So here's a link to a LOT of knowledge about hide glue from a true expert.

Enjoy, and I'll field any questions I can and throw in a few photos and whatnot as (if) this develops.

Paul

P.S. I probably should have checked first. There are already several good blogs and articles on LJ's ( search: Hide Glue) so there's another resource. I suppose it's good to bring it up again once in a while if only to have someone to throw questions at.
Paul
Thanks for the link. As you said there is some extremely useful information here.
I have a couple of questions. When you are assembling your wooden pictures do you use hide glue to join the individual pieces together before you lay the completed picture on to the chosen substrate? Do you need to reinforce your picture to safeguard it during the hammering process? Do you always use either ply or solid wood as your substrate material or do you use MDF on occasions?
Jim
 

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Take it From a Real Expert

I promised in a recent construction series about my current project to do a "how to get started in hide glue" tutorial, but in researching for useful photos and making sure my facts were correct, I took a second look at a series of videos with Patrick Edwards on Kieth Cruickshank's "Woodtreks" blog. I decided that if you want to learn about hide glue I'll let a real expert tell you about it and in video at that.

You may want to watch these several times. I still pick up tips every time I watch them and I've been using hide glue almost daily for a couple of years plus I've had this talk from Patrick in person at his American School Of French Marquetry. He is as knowledgeable on this subject as anyone in the country and commonly says that he'll change glues as soon as someone can prove theirs is superior. He'll also tell you that in the thirty odd years he's been saying that …. no one has.

So here's a link to a LOT of knowledge about hide glue from a true expert.

Enjoy, and I'll field any questions I can and throw in a few photos and whatnot as (if) this develops.

Paul

P.S. I probably should have checked first. There are already several good blogs and articles on LJ's ( search: Hide Glue) so there's another resource. I suppose it's good to bring it up again once in a while if only to have someone to throw questions at.
Paul,
The curves on the sculpted furniture looked so much like the curves I've been carving on my gunstocks that I want to fill my house with furniture made in this style. As soon as possible, I'm going to take a trip to tour the Maloof property to see the furniture Sam Maloof created.

Thanks for sharing the link on hide glue. The site has several videos I'll watch later as well. This Fall I'm starting on a new project. I'm going to build 6 Maloof style low back chairs and a live edge slab table for a Christmas gift and another smaller table with two chairs for someone else. I had been planning on trying hide glue for the first chairs because, if while shaping them, and I go to far, I can remove the part, and carve another one. It sure beats scrapping a chair and starting over… If the chairs turn out as nice as everyone else has made, I'll start making some Maloof style rocking chairs and I know I'll need to remake more than one part over before I get all the flowing curves the way I want them to look. Most chairmakers have paid a lot of money for prime lumber to build their chairs. At least I've got a sawmill and I have been collecting nice walnut, maple and cherry logs for the last year to use to make both my gunstocks and the furniture I want to make. If I mess up an arm or leg of the chair, I can easily bandsaw out another part and fit it to start over. That's not an option for most chairmakers. I'm going to make the first prototypes out of red oak before I use some of the beautiful cherry and walnut crotches I've saved. Last week I was given a 30' long spalded maple log that's 38 or 40" at the base. There's a lot of gunstocks & chairs hiding inside that log. I can't wait to see what it looks like inside.
 

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Take it From a Real Expert

I promised in a recent construction series about my current project to do a "how to get started in hide glue" tutorial, but in researching for useful photos and making sure my facts were correct, I took a second look at a series of videos with Patrick Edwards on Kieth Cruickshank's "Woodtreks" blog. I decided that if you want to learn about hide glue I'll let a real expert tell you about it and in video at that.

You may want to watch these several times. I still pick up tips every time I watch them and I've been using hide glue almost daily for a couple of years plus I've had this talk from Patrick in person at his American School Of French Marquetry. He is as knowledgeable on this subject as anyone in the country and commonly says that he'll change glues as soon as someone can prove theirs is superior. He'll also tell you that in the thirty odd years he's been saying that …. no one has.

So here's a link to a LOT of knowledge about hide glue from a true expert.

Enjoy, and I'll field any questions I can and throw in a few photos and whatnot as (if) this develops.

Paul

P.S. I probably should have checked first. There are already several good blogs and articles on LJ's ( search: Hide Glue) so there's another resource. I suppose it's good to bring it up again once in a while if only to have someone to throw questions at.
Super interesting Paul thanks for sharing this most detailed video on hide glue
 

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Take it From a Real Expert

I promised in a recent construction series about my current project to do a "how to get started in hide glue" tutorial, but in researching for useful photos and making sure my facts were correct, I took a second look at a series of videos with Patrick Edwards on Kieth Cruickshank's "Woodtreks" blog. I decided that if you want to learn about hide glue I'll let a real expert tell you about it and in video at that.

You may want to watch these several times. I still pick up tips every time I watch them and I've been using hide glue almost daily for a couple of years plus I've had this talk from Patrick in person at his American School Of French Marquetry. He is as knowledgeable on this subject as anyone in the country and commonly says that he'll change glues as soon as someone can prove theirs is superior. He'll also tell you that in the thirty odd years he's been saying that …. no one has.

So here's a link to a LOT of knowledge about hide glue from a true expert.

Enjoy, and I'll field any questions I can and throw in a few photos and whatnot as (if) this develops.

Paul

P.S. I probably should have checked first. There are already several good blogs and articles on LJ's ( search: Hide Glue) so there's another resource. I suppose it's good to bring it up again once in a while if only to have someone to throw questions at.
My 'Hide glue technique'... Any time I see hide glue, I run and hide. :) Ha ha.

Seriously, I guess I fall into the catagory of folks that just want a quick, easy, non-messy glue solution. Emphasis on the easy. I subconciously put gluing into different categories.

1) Gluing long strips(trim) in place. This involves running a quick bead down a piece of trim, putting it in place, then tacking it with a brad or pin. Norm Abram uses this style a lot from what I can tell.

2) Gluing up shorter strips to make a cutting board, or other similar piece. This differs from #1 in that I would actually smear the glue on both pieces to get full coverage, and it would also be followed up by placing clamps to secure it until it dries.

3) Last, but not least, gluing inlays or odd shapes(usually small) in place where they will be sanded flush when dried. Inlays and marquetry come to mind.

Of these, the last seems to be the main use for hide glues. Because of the thinness of the wood maybe or the hammer technique to squeeze out the excess? I can't really pinpoint the 'why' I feel this way. I just can't see Norm(or me) drizzling a long bead of hide glue down a piece of trim with a brush before nailing it in place. It's probably that nasty brush that Patrick is using.

Paul, please know that I am not knocking the use of hide glue. I am honestly asking if you only use it for your marquetry or do you use it for ALL of your gluing applications such as M&T and perhaps a cutting board glue-up.

On another aspect, it seems I just want to be able to quickly reach for a bottle of glue and dab a bit on and be done with it. Having to keep a hot-pot 'running' throughout the day seems laborious. Please tell me it is not. I really emphasize 'easy' in my woodworking. I don't want to ramp-up on another technology or process. Would the simple Liquid Hide Glue bottles that do not require the pot be a first step, or are these just not the same?

PS: Great video links btw. This one and one from one of your other threads.
 

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Discussion Starter · #28 ·
Take it From a Real Expert

I promised in a recent construction series about my current project to do a "how to get started in hide glue" tutorial, but in researching for useful photos and making sure my facts were correct, I took a second look at a series of videos with Patrick Edwards on Kieth Cruickshank's "Woodtreks" blog. I decided that if you want to learn about hide glue I'll let a real expert tell you about it and in video at that.

You may want to watch these several times. I still pick up tips every time I watch them and I've been using hide glue almost daily for a couple of years plus I've had this talk from Patrick in person at his American School Of French Marquetry. He is as knowledgeable on this subject as anyone in the country and commonly says that he'll change glues as soon as someone can prove theirs is superior. He'll also tell you that in the thirty odd years he's been saying that …. no one has.

So here's a link to a LOT of knowledge about hide glue from a true expert.

Enjoy, and I'll field any questions I can and throw in a few photos and whatnot as (if) this develops.

Paul

P.S. I probably should have checked first. There are already several good blogs and articles on LJ's ( search: Hide Glue) so there's another resource. I suppose it's good to bring it up again once in a while if only to have someone to throw questions at.
Jim

1) Yes and no on the first question. Yes if I'm assembling the picture on paper but It is not actually fastening the pieces together as much as assembling them onto a backing paper. This method is the traditional trademark procedure of french marquetry and requires very special butchers' paper.
No if I am assembling on clear adhesive film which I am doing more and more. I think if the French masters had had this product two hundred years ago, they may have used it.

2) Marquetry is always pressed, never hammered. Don't ask how I found that out, suffice to say that no one told me in advance.

3) I use baltic birch plywood and MDF. I like them both. Of course the old stuff was all done on solid wood so that's also an option, especially if you are doing curved surfaces.

Rance,
To each his own but I find hot glue to be quicker and easier and, while sometimes a bit messier than pva glue,
certainly easier to clean up.
As for your categories, I'll do another segment with some photos but for now:

#1 and #2 would likely be done as rubbed joints with hot glue and the only differences from pva would be the lack of any need for fastenings or clamping, the length of time required before you could do further work with the piece, and the ultimate strength of the joint. all of these would favor the hide glue. Actually there are even more advantages like not sealing the surface and needing to be sanded or scraped before finishing, no down the road squeeze-out and on and on.
Fir #3, with hide glue you just dab some glue on the piece, press it in place with finger pressure for about as long as you might with CA glue and you're done.

On your last point, it can be a pita to keep the pot hot and at the right temp all day with the home made style which is why most who get hooked will buy a Hold Heet pot before long.

Finally, liquid hide glue can give many of the advantages of hot glue but misses some others like hammer veneering and rubbed joints that depend on the quick set of hot glue.

Yes, I use it for almost everything. The lone exception is large area flat glue-ups like laminating sheets of PW together.
 

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In Loving Memory
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Take it From a Real Expert

I promised in a recent construction series about my current project to do a "how to get started in hide glue" tutorial, but in researching for useful photos and making sure my facts were correct, I took a second look at a series of videos with Patrick Edwards on Kieth Cruickshank's "Woodtreks" blog. I decided that if you want to learn about hide glue I'll let a real expert tell you about it and in video at that.

You may want to watch these several times. I still pick up tips every time I watch them and I've been using hide glue almost daily for a couple of years plus I've had this talk from Patrick in person at his American School Of French Marquetry. He is as knowledgeable on this subject as anyone in the country and commonly says that he'll change glues as soon as someone can prove theirs is superior. He'll also tell you that in the thirty odd years he's been saying that …. no one has.

So here's a link to a LOT of knowledge about hide glue from a true expert.

Enjoy, and I'll field any questions I can and throw in a few photos and whatnot as (if) this develops.

Paul

P.S. I probably should have checked first. There are already several good blogs and articles on LJ's ( search: Hide Glue) so there's another resource. I suppose it's good to bring it up again once in a while if only to have someone to throw questions at.
Interesting video Paul. I have seen it used a lot in various woodworking publications, etc. I can't buy it off the shelf here in Norway, but I suppose I could buy it from the U.K. Thanks for the good blog and video link on this product.
 

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Take it From a Real Expert

I promised in a recent construction series about my current project to do a "how to get started in hide glue" tutorial, but in researching for useful photos and making sure my facts were correct, I took a second look at a series of videos with Patrick Edwards on Kieth Cruickshank's "Woodtreks" blog. I decided that if you want to learn about hide glue I'll let a real expert tell you about it and in video at that.

You may want to watch these several times. I still pick up tips every time I watch them and I've been using hide glue almost daily for a couple of years plus I've had this talk from Patrick in person at his American School Of French Marquetry. He is as knowledgeable on this subject as anyone in the country and commonly says that he'll change glues as soon as someone can prove theirs is superior. He'll also tell you that in the thirty odd years he's been saying that …. no one has.

So here's a link to a LOT of knowledge about hide glue from a true expert.

Enjoy, and I'll field any questions I can and throw in a few photos and whatnot as (if) this develops.

Paul

P.S. I probably should have checked first. There are already several good blogs and articles on LJ's ( search: Hide Glue) so there's another resource. I suppose it's good to bring it up again once in a while if only to have someone to throw questions at.
Hi Paul, Question about Hide Glue, do you know if cold temperature affectes it like other glues? I need to glue something up that I cant bring indoors and I'm hopeing hide glue will cure in cooler temperatures. Thanks!
 

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Discussion Starter · #31 ·
Take it From a Real Expert

I promised in a recent construction series about my current project to do a "how to get started in hide glue" tutorial, but in researching for useful photos and making sure my facts were correct, I took a second look at a series of videos with Patrick Edwards on Kieth Cruickshank's "Woodtreks" blog. I decided that if you want to learn about hide glue I'll let a real expert tell you about it and in video at that.

You may want to watch these several times. I still pick up tips every time I watch them and I've been using hide glue almost daily for a couple of years plus I've had this talk from Patrick in person at his American School Of French Marquetry. He is as knowledgeable on this subject as anyone in the country and commonly says that he'll change glues as soon as someone can prove theirs is superior. He'll also tell you that in the thirty odd years he's been saying that …. no one has.

So here's a link to a LOT of knowledge about hide glue from a true expert.

Enjoy, and I'll field any questions I can and throw in a few photos and whatnot as (if) this develops.

Paul

P.S. I probably should have checked first. There are already several good blogs and articles on LJ's ( search: Hide Glue) so there's another resource. I suppose it's good to bring it up again once in a while if only to have someone to throw questions at.
I'm not an expert on that but I would think it will cure fine. It may be difficult to get assembled in time (the glue must still be liquid) if the air temp is low but if it's a small enough job to get assembled quickly, it will tack up very quickly as it cools and the rest of the cure is about drying so should not be affected by temperature much, provided it doesn't freeze.
If you can heat the pieces, it will help. You can also overheat the glue a bit (150 degrees or so instead of 140) and make sure it is nice and thin… the water holds the heat.
 

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Take it From a Real Expert

I promised in a recent construction series about my current project to do a "how to get started in hide glue" tutorial, but in researching for useful photos and making sure my facts were correct, I took a second look at a series of videos with Patrick Edwards on Kieth Cruickshank's "Woodtreks" blog. I decided that if you want to learn about hide glue I'll let a real expert tell you about it and in video at that.

You may want to watch these several times. I still pick up tips every time I watch them and I've been using hide glue almost daily for a couple of years plus I've had this talk from Patrick in person at his American School Of French Marquetry. He is as knowledgeable on this subject as anyone in the country and commonly says that he'll change glues as soon as someone can prove theirs is superior. He'll also tell you that in the thirty odd years he's been saying that …. no one has.

So here's a link to a LOT of knowledge about hide glue from a true expert.

Enjoy, and I'll field any questions I can and throw in a few photos and whatnot as (if) this develops.

Paul

P.S. I probably should have checked first. There are already several good blogs and articles on LJ's ( search: Hide Glue) so there's another resource. I suppose it's good to bring it up again once in a while if only to have someone to throw questions at.
I'm using Old Brown glue, do you think that matters?

So it sounds like it won't affect my the curing of the wood but it will affect my open time.
 

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Discussion Starter · #33 ·
Take it From a Real Expert

I promised in a recent construction series about my current project to do a "how to get started in hide glue" tutorial, but in researching for useful photos and making sure my facts were correct, I took a second look at a series of videos with Patrick Edwards on Kieth Cruickshank's "Woodtreks" blog. I decided that if you want to learn about hide glue I'll let a real expert tell you about it and in video at that.

You may want to watch these several times. I still pick up tips every time I watch them and I've been using hide glue almost daily for a couple of years plus I've had this talk from Patrick in person at his American School Of French Marquetry. He is as knowledgeable on this subject as anyone in the country and commonly says that he'll change glues as soon as someone can prove theirs is superior. He'll also tell you that in the thirty odd years he's been saying that …. no one has.

So here's a link to a LOT of knowledge about hide glue from a true expert.

Enjoy, and I'll field any questions I can and throw in a few photos and whatnot as (if) this develops.

Paul

P.S. I probably should have checked first. There are already several good blogs and articles on LJ's ( search: Hide Glue) so there's another resource. I suppose it's good to bring it up again once in a while if only to have someone to throw questions at.
You'll have more time with OBG for sure but you should contact Patrick and ask him.
Here's the OBG site.
 

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Take it From a Real Expert

I promised in a recent construction series about my current project to do a "how to get started in hide glue" tutorial, but in researching for useful photos and making sure my facts were correct, I took a second look at a series of videos with Patrick Edwards on Kieth Cruickshank's "Woodtreks" blog. I decided that if you want to learn about hide glue I'll let a real expert tell you about it and in video at that.

You may want to watch these several times. I still pick up tips every time I watch them and I've been using hide glue almost daily for a couple of years plus I've had this talk from Patrick in person at his American School Of French Marquetry. He is as knowledgeable on this subject as anyone in the country and commonly says that he'll change glues as soon as someone can prove theirs is superior. He'll also tell you that in the thirty odd years he's been saying that …. no one has.

So here's a link to a LOT of knowledge about hide glue from a true expert.

Enjoy, and I'll field any questions I can and throw in a few photos and whatnot as (if) this develops.

Paul

P.S. I probably should have checked first. There are already several good blogs and articles on LJ's ( search: Hide Glue) so there's another resource. I suppose it's good to bring it up again once in a while if only to have someone to throw questions at.
Thanks for the help Paul, I'll check out their site.
 

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Take it From a Real Expert

I promised in a recent construction series about my current project to do a "how to get started in hide glue" tutorial, but in researching for useful photos and making sure my facts were correct, I took a second look at a series of videos with Patrick Edwards on Kieth Cruickshank's "Woodtreks" blog. I decided that if you want to learn about hide glue I'll let a real expert tell you about it and in video at that.

You may want to watch these several times. I still pick up tips every time I watch them and I've been using hide glue almost daily for a couple of years plus I've had this talk from Patrick in person at his American School Of French Marquetry. He is as knowledgeable on this subject as anyone in the country and commonly says that he'll change glues as soon as someone can prove theirs is superior. He'll also tell you that in the thirty odd years he's been saying that …. no one has.

So here's a link to a LOT of knowledge about hide glue from a true expert.

Enjoy, and I'll field any questions I can and throw in a few photos and whatnot as (if) this develops.

Paul

P.S. I probably should have checked first. There are already several good blogs and articles on LJ's ( search: Hide Glue) so there's another resource. I suppose it's good to bring it up again once in a while if only to have someone to throw questions at.
Great article. Thanks for the tips! Rocket
 

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Take it From a Real Expert

I promised in a recent construction series about my current project to do a "how to get started in hide glue" tutorial, but in researching for useful photos and making sure my facts were correct, I took a second look at a series of videos with Patrick Edwards on Kieth Cruickshank's "Woodtreks" blog. I decided that if you want to learn about hide glue I'll let a real expert tell you about it and in video at that.

You may want to watch these several times. I still pick up tips every time I watch them and I've been using hide glue almost daily for a couple of years plus I've had this talk from Patrick in person at his American School Of French Marquetry. He is as knowledgeable on this subject as anyone in the country and commonly says that he'll change glues as soon as someone can prove theirs is superior. He'll also tell you that in the thirty odd years he's been saying that …. no one has.

So here's a link to a LOT of knowledge about hide glue from a true expert.

Enjoy, and I'll field any questions I can and throw in a few photos and whatnot as (if) this develops.

Paul

P.S. I probably should have checked first. There are already several good blogs and articles on LJ's ( search: Hide Glue) so there's another resource. I suppose it's good to bring it up again once in a while if only to have someone to throw questions at.
Check out the pickling pot on riogrande.com for $23.50 it makes a perfect hide glue pot for a very reasonable price. It keeps the glue at the ideal temperature of 140 degrees, has a porcelain lining so it's easy to clean, has a lid to keep it from evaporating too fast and I've let it dry out numerous times while still heating with no adverse effects. just add some water and shortly it's glue again. It's better than any glue pot I've seen for 5 times the price. It's made for pickling jewelry but it couldn't be more perfect for glue if they tried.
 

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Take it From a Real Expert

I promised in a recent construction series about my current project to do a "how to get started in hide glue" tutorial, but in researching for useful photos and making sure my facts were correct, I took a second look at a series of videos with Patrick Edwards on Kieth Cruickshank's "Woodtreks" blog. I decided that if you want to learn about hide glue I'll let a real expert tell you about it and in video at that.

You may want to watch these several times. I still pick up tips every time I watch them and I've been using hide glue almost daily for a couple of years plus I've had this talk from Patrick in person at his American School Of French Marquetry. He is as knowledgeable on this subject as anyone in the country and commonly says that he'll change glues as soon as someone can prove theirs is superior. He'll also tell you that in the thirty odd years he's been saying that …. no one has.

So here's a link to a LOT of knowledge about hide glue from a true expert.

Enjoy, and I'll field any questions I can and throw in a few photos and whatnot as (if) this develops.

Paul

P.S. I probably should have checked first. There are already several good blogs and articles on LJ's ( search: Hide Glue) so there's another resource. I suppose it's good to bring it up again once in a while if only to have someone to throw questions at.
That was an informative set of videos. Answered many visual questions for me. I think it's time to try some.

Thanks Paul
 

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Discussion Starter · #38 ·
Some myths, some Pictures and some Videos

There are lots of myths around hide glue like it isn't very strong, won't last as long as modern glues,smells really bad, won't keep long once hydrated, is really messy and hard to work with and that getting it wet will ruin it.

There are more but I'll start with these and you can question me about any others you may be worrying about.

1) Not very strong.
In fact even the weaker hot animal glues are stronger than most modern glues and ultimately who cares because they are all stronger than the wood they are gluing.

Here's an example. These joints were made with no clamps, just hide glue smeared in the holes and on the fingers and then assembled.

Wood Floor Flooring Gas Hardwood


You can imagine that those six screws can exert a lot of force. The only thing holding this press together is the glue. No pins, no bolts, just glue…........and I do crank on those screws.

Wood Hardwood Gas Art Flooring


2) Won't last as long

Evidence exists for the use of animal glues as much as 8000 years ago. The Egyptians used it 4000 years ago and it was used exclusively by the furniture industry until about 100 years ago. There exists furniture hundreds of years old with still holding animal glue joints. There simply are no pieces made with synthetic glue that are much more than 100 years old.

3) Smells really bad / won't keep well
If left in the gel state in a warm place it will attract mold and essentially rot producing the smell associated with any rotting animal product and yes that's REALLY bad. ... But it ceased to be glue when the first mold appeared. The mistake was not caring for the glue properly.

I use it every day so my routine is that it goes up to the shop with me first thing in the morning and gets plugged in and every night when I leave the shop I take it down to the house and put it in the fridge. I've never had it go bad and I never throw it out, just add to it as needed when it starts to get low. Constant cooking like this actually makes it stronger.

Here's my glue pot in the shop …........... next to the radio.
When I leave the shop at the end of the day I turn off the radio and that reminds me to take the glue pot….. simple.

Wood Tool Hardwood Hand tool Machine


It spends its evenings between the cat food and the Gatoraide.

Liquid Food Bottle Drinkware Fluid


4) Getting wet will ruin it

To soften (reverse) hide glue you need the presence of both moisture and heat (so don't take baths with your furniture.) Immersion for a period of time wouldn't be good either but casually getting it wet is not a problem. On the other hand when you need to repair a piece made with hide glue you can dis-assemble the joint with a very hot wet rag. Once apart you can immediately re-glue without removing all the old glue.

5) Messy and hard to work with

Here are a few short videos I did today for Rance. They should give you an idea of how messy and hard to work with it is.

Watch Wood Wood stain Hardwood Paint


Wood Wood stain Gas Flooring Hardwood


Wood Wood stain Stonemason's hammer Flooring Hardwood


The process of making the splined joint above in the third video (and yes, I meant to say Spline sled and cut splines) with hide glue is covered in this blog.
That's it for now.

YES, In fact I am on a little crusade for hide glue. All I ask is that you give it a try before you dismiss it.

Ask questions, make comments and criticize if you wish.

Paul
 

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Registered
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Discussion Starter · #39 ·
Some myths, some Pictures and some Videos

There are lots of myths around hide glue like it isn't very strong, won't last as long as modern glues,smells really bad, won't keep long once hydrated, is really messy and hard to work with and that getting it wet will ruin it.

There are more but I'll start with these and you can question me about any others you may be worrying about.

1) Not very strong.
In fact even the weaker hot animal glues are stronger than most modern glues and ultimately who cares because they are all stronger than the wood they are gluing.

Here's an example. These joints were made with no clamps, just hide glue smeared in the holes and on the fingers and then assembled.

Wood Floor Flooring Gas Hardwood


You can imagine that those six screws can exert a lot of force. The only thing holding this press together is the glue. No pins, no bolts, just glue…........and I do crank on those screws.

Wood Hardwood Gas Art Flooring


2) Won't last as long

Evidence exists for the use of animal glues as much as 8000 years ago. The Egyptians used it 4000 years ago and it was used exclusively by the furniture industry until about 100 years ago. There exists furniture hundreds of years old with still holding animal glue joints. There simply are no pieces made with synthetic glue that are much more than 100 years old.

3) Smells really bad / won't keep well
If left in the gel state in a warm place it will attract mold and essentially rot producing the smell associated with any rotting animal product and yes that's REALLY bad. ... But it ceased to be glue when the first mold appeared. The mistake was not caring for the glue properly.

I use it every day so my routine is that it goes up to the shop with me first thing in the morning and gets plugged in and every night when I leave the shop I take it down to the house and put it in the fridge. I've never had it go bad and I never throw it out, just add to it as needed when it starts to get low. Constant cooking like this actually makes it stronger.

Here's my glue pot in the shop …........... next to the radio.
When I leave the shop at the end of the day I turn off the radio and that reminds me to take the glue pot….. simple.

Wood Tool Hardwood Hand tool Machine


It spends its evenings between the cat food and the Gatoraide.

Liquid Food Bottle Drinkware Fluid


4) Getting wet will ruin it

To soften (reverse) hide glue you need the presence of both moisture and heat (so don't take baths with your furniture.) Immersion for a period of time wouldn't be good either but casually getting it wet is not a problem. On the other hand when you need to repair a piece made with hide glue you can dis-assemble the joint with a very hot wet rag. Once apart you can immediately re-glue without removing all the old glue.

5) Messy and hard to work with

Here are a few short videos I did today for Rance. They should give you an idea of how messy and hard to work with it is.

Watch Wood Wood stain Hardwood Paint


Wood Wood stain Gas Flooring Hardwood


Wood Wood stain Stonemason's hammer Flooring Hardwood


The process of making the splined joint above in the third video (and yes, I meant to say Spline sled and cut splines) with hide glue is covered in this blog.
That's it for now.

YES, In fact I am on a little crusade for hide glue. All I ask is that you give it a try before you dismiss it.

Ask questions, make comments and criticize if you wish.

Paul
The last video seems reluctant to load.
I'm working on it.

edit… I guess you'll have to click the link.
 

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In Loving Memory
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Some myths, some Pictures and some Videos

There are lots of myths around hide glue like it isn't very strong, won't last as long as modern glues,smells really bad, won't keep long once hydrated, is really messy and hard to work with and that getting it wet will ruin it.

There are more but I'll start with these and you can question me about any others you may be worrying about.

1) Not very strong.
In fact even the weaker hot animal glues are stronger than most modern glues and ultimately who cares because they are all stronger than the wood they are gluing.

Here's an example. These joints were made with no clamps, just hide glue smeared in the holes and on the fingers and then assembled.

Wood Floor Flooring Gas Hardwood


You can imagine that those six screws can exert a lot of force. The only thing holding this press together is the glue. No pins, no bolts, just glue…........and I do crank on those screws.

Wood Hardwood Gas Art Flooring


2) Won't last as long

Evidence exists for the use of animal glues as much as 8000 years ago. The Egyptians used it 4000 years ago and it was used exclusively by the furniture industry until about 100 years ago. There exists furniture hundreds of years old with still holding animal glue joints. There simply are no pieces made with synthetic glue that are much more than 100 years old.

3) Smells really bad / won't keep well
If left in the gel state in a warm place it will attract mold and essentially rot producing the smell associated with any rotting animal product and yes that's REALLY bad. ... But it ceased to be glue when the first mold appeared. The mistake was not caring for the glue properly.

I use it every day so my routine is that it goes up to the shop with me first thing in the morning and gets plugged in and every night when I leave the shop I take it down to the house and put it in the fridge. I've never had it go bad and I never throw it out, just add to it as needed when it starts to get low. Constant cooking like this actually makes it stronger.

Here's my glue pot in the shop …........... next to the radio.
When I leave the shop at the end of the day I turn off the radio and that reminds me to take the glue pot….. simple.

Wood Tool Hardwood Hand tool Machine


It spends its evenings between the cat food and the Gatoraide.

Liquid Food Bottle Drinkware Fluid


4) Getting wet will ruin it

To soften (reverse) hide glue you need the presence of both moisture and heat (so don't take baths with your furniture.) Immersion for a period of time wouldn't be good either but casually getting it wet is not a problem. On the other hand when you need to repair a piece made with hide glue you can dis-assemble the joint with a very hot wet rag. Once apart you can immediately re-glue without removing all the old glue.

5) Messy and hard to work with

Here are a few short videos I did today for Rance. They should give you an idea of how messy and hard to work with it is.

Watch Wood Wood stain Hardwood Paint


Wood Wood stain Gas Flooring Hardwood


Wood Wood stain Stonemason's hammer Flooring Hardwood


The process of making the splined joint above in the third video (and yes, I meant to say Spline sled and cut splines) with hide glue is covered in this blog.
That's it for now.

YES, In fact I am on a little crusade for hide glue. All I ask is that you give it a try before you dismiss it.

Ask questions, make comments and criticize if you wish.

Paul
How does the Tite Bond Hide Glue compare with your hot hide glue? Where do you get your glue? Will one of those little pot pourri pots work to keep it hot?
 

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