Hand Tool Journey

Blake · Nov 13, 2008

Turn of the Century Disston Dovetail Saw

I found this beautiful old saw hanging on my wall yesterday. I think I bought it at at the flea market a while back and forgot about it.

Its really nice, but its been abused and neglected. Its time for a face lift. I am assuming it is a dovetail saw? I want to know more about it. I would like to become more of a hand tool user.

On the blade it says "HENRY DISSTON AND SONS, CAST STEEL, PHILADA.USA, WARRENTED" And the handle says "C. ROSENBURG" on both sides. It also has an X marked on the edge of the blade stiffener.

What can you tell me about this saw?

About how old is it?

Is there a name for this style or shape?

I plan on restoring it to a usable and very nice looking saw. I will start by separating the handle and blade. Then I think I will use a chemical stripper on the handle since it is covered in glue and varnish. Then I guess I will give it a good sanding and refinish.

What else should I know about restoring this saw?

How should I treat the blade? Just .000 steel and elbow grease?

How can I sharpen it?

Can I have a professional saw shop sharpen it?

MacTownFish · Nov 13, 2008

I googled "Henry Disston and Sons" and got this hit: http://www.roseantiquetools.com/id57.html

If you scroll down the page, there is a .pdf catalog for the year 1939. Your saw looks very much like the Disston #4 Back Saw on page 11 of the catalog although the screw placement in the handle is a little different.

If you look further through the catalog there are instructions on how to use the saw, how to sharpen the blade and other tips.

I don't know if there's any way to determine what year your saw might have been manufactured.

You gotta love the internet.

brianinpa · Nov 13, 2008

Blake,

Not sure how far you have searched yet, but there are numerous sites devoted to Disston Saws. This is the one I go to a lot. A bunch of info can be gleened from them. Great looking saw, not sure which one of the backsaws you have, but I am sure it is pictured somewhere.

toddc · Nov 13, 2008

I would have it professionally sharpened. I have seen the computer driven machines that sharpen hand saws and the results that they produce. You can't beat them.

If you want to sharpen it yourself, have it done professionally the first time. Then you only have to maintain it.

rejr · Nov 13, 2008

I've just picked up three backsaws. All need work of one sort or another.

The guides I'm following are 'How to Clean a Saw" & "Saw Filing-A Beginner's Primer" both found at the library link at http://www.vintagesaws.com/

Under Saw Care is information on size of files and "Saw Filing-A Beginner's Primer"

http://www.backsaw.net/ has a large library of handle templates if that is needed; also some good descriptions and historical information

blackcherry · Nov 13, 2008

I will tell you that you have on your hands a very fine vintage saw…these saw date back as far as 1864 and some are very highly sought after by collector. Your is known as a back saw and in my estimation would be around 1920's. This may be a good site to look into http://www.vintagesaws.com/cgi-bin/frameset.cgi?left=saws&right=/backsaw/backsaws.html...thanks for posting and sharing this fine hand tool …Blkcherry

wooddon · Nov 13, 2008

On the disston web site there is a area that dates the saw by the button on the handle.

JoeBrumley · Nov 13, 2008

Hey Blake,
Great find. I have an old Disston carcase saw and when I was looking to get it sharpened I was directed to Daryl Weir. He sells a lot on ebay as Woodnut4. Another place that Chris Schwarz just blogged about is http://www.technoprimitives.com/. Good luck and I can't wait to see it cleaned up.

Caliper · Nov 13, 2008

Blake, I agree with blackcherry on the vintagesaws.com site. Excellent resource. Another place you might check for reference information is www.woodworking-magazine.com/blog. Here is a link for all their articles specifically related to saws. Down the page, there is a good article about Western Backsaws posted in March.

Here is a clearing house of reference links. MANY things hand tool related including some saw sharpening links.

If you decide to send it out the first time, this fella has restored a lot of saws and is now offering a sharpening service.

Good luck!

rejr · Nov 13, 2008

TechnoPrimitives is now offering sharpening and sales without going through ebay
http://www.technoprimitives.com/saw_sharpening__restoration_services

Blake · Nov 13, 2008

Wow, thanks for all the great info!

According to THIS page it seems to be a civil war-era saw.

According to THIS it appears that it might be between 1897 and 1917.

Thanks rejr, I like that link for resharpening.

blackcherry · Nov 13, 2008

Thanks for sharing with us Blake …I got a great kick out of seeing it…cherish this fine vintage tool…Blkcherry

Blake · Mar 2, 2009

Lately I've really been getting into hand tools.

Lately I've really been getting into hand tools.

I asked for a few Japanese chisels for Christmas (one each from a few different people in the family.) I ended up with a set of four from Woodcraft. I decided that this collection was worthy of family heirloom status so I had them laser engraved and built a box to keep them in.

I have always had a fascination with Japanese culture, art and woodworking. Lately I have been reading Japanese Woodworking Tools, Their Tradition, Spirit and Use by Toshio Odate. This is a truly eye-opening book and I highly recommend it to every woodworker. I've also really enjoyed a book called Selecting and Using Hand Tools by Fine Woodworking.

So the natural progression from owning such a beautiful set of chisels lead me to coming up with a way to keep them sharp… which is how I ended up with a WorkSharp. And let me tell you, this is an amazing little machine. I know there are lots of ways to put a razer edge on a tool, but this thing makes it EASY. Which means my tools will ALWAYS be sharp. Its one of the best investments I've made in my shop in a long time.

So armed with the WorkSharp, I spent one afternoon grinding, sharpening and honing ALL my hand tools. And it suddenly occurred to me… wow… I've never worked with sharp tools before!

Dangerously sharp edge on a chisel from the WorkSharp:

I've always used chisels and planes and the occasional "Shark Saw" (Japanese-style saw from Big Box store) among other hand tools. But my first hand tool epiphany came when I first learned how to dress and use a cabinet scraper, and I was HOOKED. It really changed how I work… no more power sander (for the most part).

But my chisels and planes had been causing me a lot of frustration until now, because it was so tedious to sharpen them that I simply never took the time to do it. Now all of my planes sing like Billie Holiday.

The more I read Odate's book as well as watch videos online, etc, the more I have become addicted to Japanese hand tools. Its a terrible, expensive addiction, but I don't think I can shake it. I've been window-shopping online today on ebay and sites like The Japan Woodworker. I've got my eye on a Dozuki (dovetail saw) next… but that will have to wait a few months 'till my birthday

But its not just Japanese hand tools that has got me excited lately. Its ALL hand tools. It just so happens that I work at a used tool store (dangerous, I know). So my collection is always growing.

This is my plane cabinet. The bottom shelf is the currently usable planes, and the next shelf up contains some that either need to be restored, or purely collectibles (like the brightly colored vintage "student" planes).

From left to right:

Modern (cheap) Stanley that I use for utility purposes like door jams or construction
Millers Falls No 56B (Favorite block plane)
Record No 077 rabbet/bullnose (Other favorite plane)
Stanley Bullnose plane with SweetHeart blade
Little Stanley "finger" plane (as I call it) with SweetHeart blade

From front to back:

Stanley No. 4 with SweetHeart blade
Stanley Bailey No. 5
Stanley Bailey No. 6

So in my excitement over hand tools lately, I have really been in the mood to make my own planes. I have really been inspired by some of the handmade tools by other Lumberjocks too. It doesn't seem like a very complicated project, but very rewarding (and a great way to use up scraps as well.)

So I have been thinking about where to get blades from. I hate Ebay, and I really didn't want to spent $40 bucks each for "Hock" blades from a catalog. So I had an idea, let me know what you think. I have a small collection of old wood planes that were inherited from a family-friend. Although I appreciate the history and like looking at them, they are in poor enough condition to where I would never use them.

Example of poor condition:

Some of these wooden planes appear to be handmade. The only plane with any marks on the wooden body is this one which (I think) reads "196 W.SCHNEHOER AVE. NY"

(Note the seemingly-missing handle next to the saw marks… it was probably cut off after breaking)

Anyway, my idea is to keep the wooden plane collection but give the blades a new lease on life by using them to make my new hand-made planes. Or would it just be too sad to "rob" these elders of their irons? What do you think?

The blades are very rusty and would need a lot of work but I would end up with a great variety for my new planes. The man who owned the old wooden planes was a boat builder. So among the collection is a concave plane, a convex plane, and a couple different sizes of straight blades. It would be an interesting challenge to build all of the different plane shapes.

kiwi1969 · Mar 2, 2009

If you don,t use the old planes people complain that you,re just a collector, if you restore them people complain that you,ve destroyed the patina. You can,t win! So Use the old irons anyway. The metals probably as good as anything you get now.

jcame · Mar 2, 2009

Do it dude!!! Besides, I did'nt here any names worth collecting anyway and even if I did, they would just sit around collecting dust. So its as I said, DO IT DUDE!!

Beginningwoodworker · Mar 2, 2009

Thats real cool!

Tikka · Mar 2, 2009

I have a few old wooden planes, my favorite is:

it is 25" long with a 2" bi-metal blade. The main body of the plane is made from Masur Birch, I am not sure what the handle is made from.

The remainder are just gathering dust at the moment, some of them are worth repairing, others will be scrapped. But the blades are definitely worth using or re-using - sharpen them up first to see how the edge is maintained - if it is OK then de-rust and protect it.

They do not give as good as finish as my Veritas planes, but for rough work they are great.

jcees · Mar 2, 2009

Go for it, Blakester! The process of making your own hand planes can be a lot of fun. Also, you can set angles of attack for appropriate hardwoods, i.e. 50, 55 or even 90 degrees. While I don't know just how bad your old blades are, you at least want clean smooth backs without pitting to be able to get the best use and life from them. I've used and am still using old Stanley blades, Hocks and L-Ns. The newer blades are better to be sure BUT the older ones like from the wooden planes are usually tapered and much much thicker on the business end than anything made by Hock, Clifton, L-N or Veritas. I've even gone so far as to collect old tapered blades that are restorable from flea markets and even eBay.

Good luck and keep us posted on your progress.

always,
J.C.

Woodshopfreak · Mar 2, 2009

Thats pretty neat. Those old planes look like they have had a lot of use over the years.

Moai · Mar 2, 2009

That's a nice set of chisels….I'm reading the same book by Odate and what interest me most about Japanese WW is the use of the body and space….and of course tools!
I am living in an small apartment, so I'm considering the way to work here but in a clean, non-mess way, so this book is great in that way.
I was recently in a tool event by Lie Nielsen at The Crucible in Oakland, one of the invited toolmakers was Konrad Bauer from Bauer & Steiner…..That was the first time I tried an infill plane (I tried all of them!) but that was the moment when I said: I want to make tools!!! Those planes are pure state of the Art!
There are many online steel suppliers you can use to make your own blades, or you can use Ron Hock ones, by the way he was telling us at the crucible, that many people make their own blades and send them to him for the final hardeness treatment. He is a very open guy to help other woodworkers.
I can recommend a Japanese saw I use, the brand name is HYOKUSHO, they are of great quality, made in Japan at afordable prices. Lee Valley also have a good selection.

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