[CharlesNeil]

Poroskywood, two things, Im not familar with the HD spray gun, am assuming its a gravity fed HVLP, second , a good gravity fed with a compressor works quite well, not sure the turbine would help all that much, one of the things I do know, there can be alot of difference in spray guns , even if they look the same, the gravity fed HVLPs are the oldest design , they been around for about 20 + years, I bought one paid 400.00+ in 1982 , still have it , the difference is in the machining , and how well they are done , meaning inconsistent needle /nozzle sizing, how well the needles seat into the nozzle , all play an important part , in many cases these guns are made in the same offshore factory, just like jointers and planers, and so forth , the difference is what the retailer or alledged manufacture dictate as the acceptable standards , so the good stuff goes one place and the not so good goes somewhere else , when you see 19.95 guns, look out , in my experience its someone selling off the junk, not sure about your gun, I just went and looked at the Homedepot guns , they look fine , I suggest you do 2 things, first pull the needle /nozzle , air cap and all apart, clean them well , water base can build up inside and clog everything up some, use MEK to clean it , if you have to , it will dissolve anything, dont use it or leave it in a plastic cup , it will dissolve it ( really) , use a scotch bright to clean the needle and inside the nozzle ( wrapped on a pencil) also the air cap, be sure all the holes are open, if not a small sewing needle will help clean them , once you have the gun clean , make sure all is working well, spray some water thru it , as long as it is breaking up the water and you have a good consistent fan ,you are ok,
now to the product , thin it about 10% , strain it thru a med mesh strainer , when you clean the gun ,remove the cup , sometimes there is a micro mesh strainer just under the cup , in the fluid tube , remove it and clean it , or just remove it , water base is thicker , the strainers they install are often too small to keep the fluid moving, also be sure the vent hole is clear , as long as it moves well thru the strainer you are ok, if not thin a bit more , it should flow with a continuious stream , nice steady flow thru the strainer , adjust your air to about 25 to 30 lbs at the gun, and open the fluid knob , you should get a nice even flow , fan about 6" wide , if to much fluid back off , to llittle tighten the fan up a bit to give more concentration, you may need to increase or decrease the pressure, you want a nice smooth flow from the gun, with out alot of overspray ( high pressure), now i feel sure I havent told you anything you didnt already know , but there are alot who dont .. thus the write up …..I will tell you this, the HVLP gun I have is the one Woodcraft sells with a 1.5 needle/nozzle and i spray with it all the time, solvent, dye, stain, and water base , does well… but i have found the filter under the cup can be a issue, so go there first… both of mine i removed the filters for Waterbase

 

[CharlesNeil]

water base build up on tip, UPDATE… I didnt have any chap stick, but i got to thinking , so I tried some http://www.woodcraft.com/Catalog/ProductPage.aspx?prodid=462 , on the air cap , just a light coat on the face and wiped a little around the outlet hole , wiped it back, I use this on my saws and things, it doesnt rub off and seems to be water resistent and dries hard, I have been spraying off and on for about an hour and no build up , so maybe , if i were to use the gun for shellac or solvent , I would clean it with some alcohol or lacquer thinner , just to be sure no chance of contamination, thus far with the water base , no issues, no signs of contamination, Just FYI

 

[CharlesNeil]

Ok to be sure , I just switched to the enduro var, in my woodriver HVLP with a 1.5 , it strained well out of the can , I had the fluid knob open about all the way and had to go to a 3 1/2 to 4" fan to get a nice wet, coat..Just FYI , about 25 lbs of pressure at the gun ( no filter) ( no build up )

 

[CharlesNeil]

ok I reduced it about 5% now have a 6" fan and its laying alot better and wetting up faster

 

[rolltopbox]

So I could spray the pre-cat urethane using my compressor and a gun? My compressor is only 3/4 HP. Which gun should I be looking at? Does this mean I don't need to use a "turbine" sprayer?

 

[CharlesNeil]

it does rolltop, a 3/4 horse compressor , not sure there, it has to be able to put out about 50lbs at the compressor and sustain it for as long as you will be spraying, alot of guys use a pancake so it would proably work , ( 50 lbs at the compressor because you will lose pressure thru the line) , the thing about a compresor is how long it will maintain the pressure , thats why larger tanks ,and compressors are used for sanding, but spraying small items or a cabinet , dont take all that much air volume , you proably would not be able to spray continious , but for short periods it should work, but do look to getting a filter for your gun, a water / oil filter
something lik e this http://www.diytools.com.au/default.asp?page=productdetails&ID={F2D16E5E-3451-4CDD-9C53-D6DC1E439B96}&utm_source=getprice&utm_medium=cpc

be sure to put it at the gun, not at the compressor, air from a compressor is hot , thus the condensation, it will condense in the air hose , and you will get water , google air compressor water filters and so forth there is a ton of info , but you do want a clean air supply , this is the gun I have and like , I have 2 http://www.woodcraft.com/Catalog/ProductPage.aspx?prodid=25126&ss=7bc6218f-6447-487c-95d0-b97107062e84 , they are not expensive , but seem to do a good job , especially for the $, its what I am spraying with right now , tell you what else you can do with small compressors, is to get one of those tanks you fill with air to carry for flat tires and rig it up with your compressor , so you have greater air storage volume .

 

[CharlesNeil]

last thought on the woodriver spray gun ( I go spray and something else comes to mind , sorry), it comes with a 1.4 needle/ nozzle , this will handle about all your spraying needs , in as much as finishes, dyes and stains go , it will not spray paint , to spray paint you will need to go to a 2.0 needle /nozzle set up , and you will have to thin the paint… these are not the best guns for paint, ( latex), turbines are better , because they pressurize the fluid helping to deliver the fluid to the tip, but even then you need a larger needle/nozzle , and about 10% thinning for latex

 

[Porosky]

All good info, I'll need to evaluate my situation, based on all this great information. With this information I'm sure I'll be able to make some good decisions. Thanks (I'll remember this as the day I discussed spraying water-based poly with Charles Neil)!

 

[HokieJoe]

Hey Charles, thanks for suggestions on the pre-cat. Yes, I bought the pre-cat top coat as well. As for the india ink, I've heard of this stuff before but never used it. I have used TransFast black dye before and liked the results. Why I went with the TranTint was for the NGR properties. Plus, I just wanted to try the product out. Will india ink raise the grain? If so, that's fine…I just like to know what I'm getting in to should I try it.

 

[CharlesNeil]

hokie it will raise the grain some as its water base, I believe you can also get a alcohol base, which would not

 

[rolltopbox]

The RO pneumatic sander you are using in the rubbing out video looks like it has a different H&L pad than my electric Porter Cable RO sander. Your pad looks cushy and mine is harder.

Bruce - let's see how long it takes for an answer this time….....

 

[CharlesNeil]

wow I missed this one.. big time…. let me look and see what the pad was.. its a interface pad as I recall.. but I will get the answer.. this showed up on my blog stats, or I would have missed it completely,,, hey if I havent answered in 24 hours email me.,I missed it.. [email protected] , just here to help if i can

 

[rolltopbox]

Thanks everyone for the help. I am now spraying a small run of jewelry boxes that have parts of all sizes and shapes. I think it is going well and so much faster than brushing..!!

 

[barryvabeach]

To the OP, I love the Enduro / General Finishes products and I have been spraying a lot of the pre cat lately.

Charles, I know you are a fan of the Woodriver gun and I bought one a few days ago and was pretty impressed at the quality for the price. One concern though was the limited parts - On my other guns, the needle nozzle sets are available every .2 ( so I can buy 1.5, 1,7, 1,9 etc) yet the woodriver only offers 1.4 and 2.0 - which in my mind is an awfully big spread. Also, the gasket on the aircap - is there any way to buy that separately so that it can be replaced years down the road. Finally, I looked at the mini gun, but was wasn't too impressed on the machining of the aircap ) there were no holes other that the fan - have you used the mini gun to spray water based?

 

[CharlesNeil]

Barry I have not used the mini for water base, its air caps and needle nozzles are too small, water base cannot be thinned enough to do super thin coatings which this is designed to do, i do have one, I use it for dyes and shellac in thinner applications

the 1.4 is what I use all the time either water or solvent, I also have the higher end guns where i can get all the various smaller increments, but the average home guy , and the typical use of the gun the 1.4 is all that is needed, by simply controlling the amount of air pressure , and the amount of fluid, you can regulate atomization well , for auto finishing the various other needle/nozzles are needed , as the new base coat clear coats can be pretty sensitive , and pressure , and atomization can affect color match , but not the case in woodowrking, we typically spray clear coats, dyes, stains and an ocassional toner ( color ,clear mixed) , we dont have all the metallic coatings and so forth

 

[barryvabeach]

Charles, thanks for the quick reply. Woodcraft just put this gun on sale and I will probably buy another just to keep on hand for spare parts, etc. I was surprised that the WR did as well as it did with a 1.4, on my other guns ( $85 -to $300+)I can't spray waterbased with anything smaller than 1.7. Thanks for recommending the gun.

 

[rolltopbox]

My HF rig (same as Rockler unit) does great with a 1.5mm tip. With Enduro and High Performance.

 

[DAWG]

WOW !!!!! I feel like I (we) hit the lottery, when I bought my sprayer from Rockler I searched all over the internet for information on spraying, thinning and what to use where. I bought the Rockler unit a couple of years ago and mostly use it to spray Lacquer and it seems to work great. Like Charles said you just have to practice and get use to how much your laying down. Thank you Charles for all the information you are sharing on this post, it is invaluable. I will admit I will have to read this over and over to pack all this into my head.

Question: What is the best way to spray paint and the best equipment to spray paint? I used my Rockler to spray Oil Base paint and only one out of three pieces had a smooth finish the rest had the orange peel. Was it not thinned enough? I thinned with about a shot glass of paint thinner.

 

[CharlesNeil]

smooth is a direct relation to flow out… meaning if its cool and the paint is drying slow, it will flow out more before it "tacks" if its hot and drying fast its obviously the reverse. THe orange peel says it didnt flow out enough, could be numerous reasons, but thinning it a little more would help alot, how much is impossible to say with out knowing how thin it is to begin with, and every manufacture makes them different. like colors, there is no standard , so you have to just experiment a little, a general rule of thum for me , is if it will flow easily thru a medium mesh strainer, meaning fairly rapidly, it is thin enough, this is for Oil base, usually you cannot get water base to flow rapidly thru a mediumn mesh but it should flow smoothly

 

[DAWG]

Thanks for the advice Charles again it is just a matter of experimenting with your equipment and different products, but it helps alot to have someone with your experience to put us in the ballpark of where to start. Thanks again for being so willing to help.