[bill1352]

I like the micro mesh for buffing out the finish. I watched your Woodcraft video, Charles, it helped. I had trouble the first few times. I called MicroMesh & they said I was useing a orbital sander that was too fast. They said I needed to be down around 2500 rpm. I got a Harbor Frieght polisher for $17 and it did help. i still get a shadow in the finish, sort of a cloud, instead of clear. i even waited 2 weeks after the last coat on 1 table top. The Micro Mesh sure does give a baby's behind smooth finish. Now to get the last of that cloud out of the final buff. A guy at Woodcraft said I was getting mosture under the finish and to try a water based finish. I'm hoping he is right. I have a table curing now.

 

[CharlesNeil]

Bill , I don't agree with the water under the finish, if you have that using a solvent based, you should see it in the un rubbed finish , its called blushing , it where the finish absorbs moisture from the air or usually from a compressed air system that is not filtered to remove the moisture from the air line, rubbing will usually produce a sort of hazy look , using a good lambs wool pad and either some wax or as listed above the swirl remover /hand glaze takes care of it , what you are seeing is a combination of the super fine scratches as well as often a light residue , when a clear finish is scuff sanded notice how it turns white its a minor amount that will hang on the surface and make it cloudy , the glaze /swirl remover and lambs wool bonnet help to remove it , wax will as well, the problem with wax is it will also add sheen , so if you want a satin , and you rub to a 1500 with the abralon , then wax you will get about a 3000 , or semi gloss , the glaze swirl /remover will add some sheen but not as much as wax, the other side to it is it will clear up after some use , and regular dusting, but I am not real good at waiting, so I use the swirl remover , as well when you rub a finish you "open it up", meaning , just like planing a piece of rough kiln dried lumber , once you remove the outer surface , it is now open to further dry , or acclimate , finish will do the same , once rubbed to wait a day or so for it to do a final surface cure , it seems to finish up alot better , solvent based products are worse than water , solvent based post cat as well as pre cat do better because they are chemically cured , shellacs, and nitrocellulose lacquers are the worst , so a light scuff with a fine paper and then allow them to cure down longer really helps , as well the same with oils and gel varnishes .The link I posted above at bowling beat they sell the lambs wool pads as I recall, it may seem odd to be looking at a bowling store for rubbing products, but its the products they use to polish bowling balls , which are plastics, and guess what finishes are , they are all a form of plastic…

 

[CharlesNeil]

A decent read , and will help you understand http://www.jetblackcar.com/8.html

 

[HokieJoe]

Thanks for the tips Charles and everyone. My first experience using my Earlex was with Minwax Polycrylic. If I recall correctly, this is a water-based lacquer of sorts. Anyway, my one-time experience echoes what Charles said After practicing on some old masonite, I shot the first coat on my project. It had a rough appearance when wet, but after drying it leveled out very nicely. I scuffed lightly between each coat with a green Scotchbrite pad. I'm very pleased with the results. I'd use the polycrylic again, but I'm building a keyboard/mouse tray and I want something more durable. The General Finishes product looks to fit the bill.

I plan on buying their enduro pre-cat sealcoat and topcoat, but I wonder if dewaxed shellac wouldn't serve just as well for the sealcoat.

 

[bill1352]

Thanks Charles. I have seen that bowling ball supplier stuff before. I almost bought some but then I watched your video on micro mesh & got that instead. I was using solvent based products but I will be using a water based poly from now on. easier clean up, less smell and from all accounts a better finish. I was wondering about what the guy at Woodcraft said. It didn't seem right. It was a very clear finish before I used the micro mesh. I thought about using auto polishing stuff because it works so well on acrylics I turn but figured I better leave well enough alone. Thanks again Charles.

 

[HokieJoe]

I bought my stuff today: Pre-Cat sanding sealer + topcoat. I also bought the 1.0mm spray tip because I plan on shooting my piece with black TransTint dye before the topcoat is applied. Per Charles, I'll use the 1.5mm tip for the sanding sealer and Pre-Cat.

 

[CharlesNeil]

Hokie, two points here , if you got precat sanding sealer be sure the topcoat is precat as well or you could have adhesion issues , second, trans tint is great , however for black, check out the local craft store and see if you can get some India ink, its black , and its real serious about it , a good "slug" in your mix will give you the blackest black you can get, most blacks are actually super dark blues or greens , dont get the ink on anything , like I said , its real serious about coloring about anything , really likes skin as well !

 

[rolltopbox]

Next question. After spraying a few minutes I get this little cone of finish buildup on the tip. It can get an eight of an inch long and really interfere with the spray pattern. Is this normal or can it be avoided somehow?

 

[CharlesNeil]

Roll top , yep that be Waterbase and small needle/nozzles , I just keep a wet rag in hand , and wipe it off , remember water base is thicker , also its very high solids compared to solvent ,( also why its more expensive) so it will gather on the tip , you can add about a table spoon full of denatured alcohol to a qt, it will help some, also will help level out ( relives surface tension), I am always reluctant to post this as if there is a finish failure , it would be blamed on the alcohol, but I have never had any issues … so Just FYI
additionally you will have the issues associated with alcohol, flammability as well as smell , so I say again, try it first , before committing to the project , and be sure ventilation and personal safety is covered well

 

[rolltopbox]

That was quick! This thread will be the cat's meow to the next poor soul that follows in my feet prints.

I just sprayed another coat on the work surfaces of the three desks I am making and the film has flowed out to a mirror smooth surface. This is simply wonderful..!! I can't thank you enough. I no longer drink much but I'd be glad to sport a Black Russian with a Baileys on the side, straight up, for you should our paths ever cross!

Another quick question; what happens when a duck flies upside down?

 

[CharlesNeil]

I am afraid to ask, but I will, I have no idea , so lets have it( good to see you in a better mood)

 

[a1Jim]

It quacks up

 

[CharlesNeil]

Ill never learn… he he h eh e..

 

[rolltopbox]

 

[CharlesNeil]

One of my guys ( ace hole in one), emailed me about the build up on the nozzle end suggested using some chap stick around the edge , havent tried it , but I will sounds very feasable , He also brought up a good point of the wiping off can press the semi dried residue into the opening, further complicating the issue, he is correct, i can see that happening , so watch it

 

[rolltopbox]

"Yes, Sir"..!!

Bruce - standing at attention and saluting….................

 

[roman]

CharlesNeil…..........I gotta say that reading this post, that you are a pleasure. So nice to see/read things that come from a lifetime of experience and as far as I am concerened,you know what you speak about.

Finishing is a "trade" of its own. The combinations and permutaions of what can go wrong is virtually endless. Once again I remain convinced that "experiene is a very tough teacher"......test first,......... lesson later.

I have taken many finishing courses over the years and have decades of time spent with a spray gun in my hand. A good finisher can make junk look priceless and a bad finisher can ruin a priceless piece in seconds.

 

[CharlesNeil]

moron , man oh man im with ya , read the tag line under this video , you might like it

 

[Porosky]

This has been one of the most informative posts to date.

So am I sucking wind with my gravity feed Husky HVLP from HD, trying to spray water-based poly? I'm sure a Earlax 5000 would solve quite a bit of my problem, being able to change the size of the spray nozzle, pressure feed, easy to clean. I love to spray water-based poly but with my current set up it can be a real cluster F at times.

Also the finish sanding / buffing tips here are priceless. I can't wait to get some supplies and take my work to a new level. Thanks

 

[reggiek]

Just wanted to echo that this post has been most informative….I wanted to thank all that participated.