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picture 1…


picture 2….


I got to thinking about my correction comment on Jerry's project and realized I had it right the first time. It can be tough to visualize through several modifications and retain the end result. (Unless you happen to be a Gallileo, Copernicus, Shipwright, etc.)

Anyway, the dowel in the picture is 3/8" so I chewed away 1/4" plus from what would be the top half of box. and 1/8" from bottom. This would allow the dowel pieces to sit slightly above centerline and would allow for lid opening without any binding.

The examples were quickly done without regard to accuracy or proportion, but to demonstrate workability.

the only tough part would be digging out the grooves in the recessed upper lid, other than that should work.
 

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Hey Daniel,

I think I see what you are getting at. This is a very different approach from the one I was using, but it looks very interesting. I'm thinking that the groove for the dowel could be approached by putting a core box router bit in the router table, then cutting the groove dead center of the edge for both pieces, but, as you pointed out, cutting the groove in the top a little deeper and the bottom one a little shallower, so that you wind up with the hinge pin slightly proud of the bottom edge. This definitely could work. I'm going to try it out sometime today or tomorrow. I'll let you know what I learn.
 

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I think this is what we are looking for. In this method, I think for it to work on 1/2" stock you'd need a 5/8" core box router bit to cut the groove and you'd have to use a 5/8" dowel. That way the dowel would extend into inside of the box 1/16" and outside the back 1/16", then you could flatten the dowel on the outside.

Rectangle Parallel Automotive exterior Logo Font
 

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Hi Daniel,
Marvellous how things work…....I have recently made a few hinges and boxes using a similar technique. I like the way you have approached this and it has great possibilities. I recently made an Art Deco box using this technique and have developed the hinge further. I have been discussing this idea with DClark1943 who is a fellow LJ and no doubt there will be some wooden hinges on boxes. Here are some pictures of the hinge on the Art Deco box.
Wood Rectangle Communication Device Hardwood Wood stain

This is the view from the rear.

Wood Rectangle Wood stain Chair Hardwood

Open view
I liked the appearance so much I also used it on the front of the box to act as a finger lift. It gave the box some symmetry.

Here are some pictures of a prototype showing how the hinge is made. There are only two cuts on the router table to make this hinge and because of the design you get perfect lid to base alignment taking away the hassle of fitting hinges. I chose not to show the 1/8"brass hinge pin on the ends but this is a matter of taste. All in all a very simple wooden hinge that is neat.
Wood Beige Lamp Art Plywood


I will post some more pictures
 

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Hi Daniel,
Here are some more pictures of my hinge design.
Rectangle Wood Beige Tints and shades Shade

Hinge shown opened at 95 degrees
Table Rectangle Wood Wood stain Varnish

Hinge partially opened.
Rectangle Wood Floor Flooring Wood stain

This is the view of the hinge when the box is closed. just one straight line of the rounded portion of the hinge rod. Very clean lines and the contrasting wood in the hinge adds some accent to the design. this could be brass or acrylic….as long as you can glue it successfully .
Rectangle Wood Table Floor Flooring

This is the hinge prior to assembly The long dowel is glued to the base groove and the short ends and brass pins are assembled in situ and glued to the lid groove. Hinge finished.
Wood Rectangle Art Wood stain Hardwood

Rectangle Wood Beige Tints and shades Shade


Table Rectangle Wood Wood stain Varnish


Rectangle Wood Floor Flooring Wood stain


Rectangle Wood Table Floor Flooring


Wood Rectangle Art Wood stain Hardwood


Wood Rectangle Art Wood stain Hardwood


Wood Rectangle Beige Art Plywood

Wood Rectangle Art Wood stain Hardwood


Wood Rectangle Beige Art Plywood


The 10mm dowel rods are just glued into the respective grooves with the brass pins in place. QED
 

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Discussion Starter · #9 ·
Wow, beautiful box and design Ruddy. Looks like you are a ways farther up the ladder on thinking this type of hinge through. I see that there can be multiple variations of this idea. I like what you put together a lot.

Look forward to seeing it and others in projects. Yes and post more pictures, please!
 

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Hi Ruddy,

I think I now understand how you assemble the hinge. The pivot rods are buried in the dowels during assembly and do not show. Can you post a picture of the back of the box that shows the hinge? Am I correct from looking at the first picture you posted above that the lid remains offset from the back of the box? It does look like it provides a nice positive stop for opening the lid, but I am not certain how you have handled the transition from the lid to the the ends of the box when closed .
 

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you are correct. That should definitely work. I like that sketch-up, if that s what it is. Can t wait to see how it comes out.

- DanielP
Yep, that's Sketchup I don't have enough spare wood laying around like some lucky people…so this is how I plan…
 

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I see it now, with the captions on the pictures. I had mistakenly thought that eye 90 degree picture was the closed position and the top piece swung up to open the box.

I've gotta try this out. It looks really slick! Thanks for posting.
 

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Daniel, I've given this some thought and it's not going to work. The reason being that whether or not the hinge is offset does not prevent the two outside edges of the lid from binding when the box is opened, because they start out in a position where the lip of the lid is flat against the box, and when you try to rotate out, it will bind, as in this image:

Rectangle Triangle Automotive exterior Fashion accessory Drawing


You may recall in my original post, the idea was to somehow make the hinge invisible, but to prevent binding I had to bring the hinge all the way to the outside edges of the box for the very reason I'm talking about above.

The reason Rudy's hinge works, and could be made invisible if he used the same species of wood, is because his box lid is captured entirely between the slabs of both sides. This is the very same technique Rob Cosman teaches and I know it works on a lid that is captured between two sides because the sides don't have to move, but when the sides have to move too, it will not work unless the hinge extends the full width of the box.

View on YouTube
 

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Jerry, I have Rob Cosmans video and have made the box. I still think it can be adapted for a lipped lid while concealing the hinge ends and allowing a free pivot. I don't think your latest sketch-up correctly represents the necessary configuration.



In this picture look at the box on left. Even though I rounded the edges somewhat it still would swing freely with a square edge. Imagine the dowel running through where the pivot point is. Now imagine the gaps above it and below it are solid wood right up to where it rests against the dowel pieces, either glued or waxed.

The pivot point on your Sketch up looks dead center all directions. It could be higher and farther back, you could make the back thicker and after dowel placement cut it back to match the sides. I think there are ways to go with this.

I will play around with it with some scrap also and see what happens.
 

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Daniel:

I don't think this will work without some relief for clearance. No matter where you put the pivot point, the distance from the turning axis to the corner of the stock will be greater than the distance from that axis to the flat surface between the lid and the box proper. Trying to rotate the hinge will jam the corners together as Jerry showed in his drawing.

Ruddy's hinge has this relief with the chamfer along the narrower edge.
 

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Daniel:

I don t think this will work without some relief for clearance. No matter where you put the pivot point, the distance from the turning axis to the corner of the stock will be greater than the distance from that axis to the flat surface between the lid and the box proper. Trying to rotate the hinge will jam the corners together as Jerry showed in his drawing.

Ruddy s hinge has this relief with the chamfer along the narrower edge.

- Kazooman
Ezakly
 

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Discussion Starter · #18 ·
Kazooman, Yes, that is true, but the difference in the distances will be so minimal that there will be room to swing the back corner through. It is a lipped box we are discussing so by necessity there must be a seam around the sides, and that seam has to be at least a tiny bit wider towards the back.

The sketch-up Jerry posted wasn't representative of the situation (in my opinion). I think using Sketch-up has it's place, but it can stunt peoples creativity, which is the case here.

Here are some example pictures from scrap. The difference from the pivot point to the corner is less than inch and the height and off center of the pivot makes the plane difference almost non-existent.





 

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Kazooman, Yes, that is true, but the difference in the distances will be so minimal that there will be room to swing the back corner through. It is a lipped box we are discussing so by necessity there must be a seam around the sides, and that seam has to be at least a tiny bit wider towards the back.
Dan, it may seem minimal to you, but it's unacceptable for me. I want a box with no seam whatsoever showing, and that means that it can't pivot without binding. It's just a fact.

The sketch-up Jerry posted wasn t representative of the situation (in my opinion).
The Sketchup model was taken directly from your idea to put the axle of the hinge above the top edge of the bottom of the box. It was not, by the way as you stated previously, dead center in all dimensions. I didn't bother to draw in an axle, but trust me when I tell you that the hinge pivot point was above the top ledge of the box bottom. Your thinking was that positioning the center of the hinge above the top edge would prevent the hinge from binding, but that is not the case. I have broken pieces in my shop right now that definitively prove that.

I think using Sketch-up has it s place, but it can stunt peoples creativity, which is the case here.
As far as my creativity being stunted, well after a lifetime of being a world class martial artist, a composer and musician, a graphic designer, website designer and developer, and 3D artist, I'm quite happy with my creativity, as are many, many other people. I simply prefer to work with my mind instead of wasting valuable resources with experimentation whenever possible.
 
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