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Daves Workshop

61756 Views 123 Replies 26 Participants Last post by controlfreak, Apr 4, 2022

dbhost

Discussion Starter · Dec 11, 2016

Fixing a dust collection ducting mistake.

We all make mistakes, what moves us forward is knowing how to fix those mistakes… In this video I show how I made a design and implementation mistake in my dust collection ducting, and how I fixed it…

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jbertelson

· #2 · Dec 11, 2016

dbhost said:
Fixing a dust collection ducting mistake.

We all make mistakes, what moves us forward is knowing how to fix those mistakes… In this video I show how I made a design and implementation mistake in my dust collection ducting, and how I fixed it…

View on YouTube

Regarding your remark about making mistakes, even the master woodworkers describe the many ways you can fix a woodwork blemish, miscalculation, or goof up. When you do the same thing over and over, then you can eliminate mistakes, but then you are into manufacturing or doing a job with a lot of repetition on identical items. If you are doing a one-off, or into creative pursuits, then you are even more likely to make mistakes.

You need to buy some small pan head screws for your duct installation. They also come in handy for electrical work. An overly long screw that extends into the duct is a natural place for a big shaving to hang up, or possibly a piece of something bigger that is accidentally sucked up. Then if you have a bunch of screws in the duct space, you will have a lot of work trying to figure out where it hung up. Since I have spent time finding a blockage in my system, I know what a pain that can be…

Doing the trim on my mobile base for the drill press. Drawers will come later, but I will install the drill press on the on the base once the trim is done since the drawers can be installed with the item already in use.

Staying cold up here, hovering around 1 degree above zero…

Later…

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dbhost

Discussion Starter · #3 · Dec 11, 2016

dbhost said:
Fixing a dust collection ducting mistake.

We all make mistakes, what moves us forward is knowing how to fix those mistakes… In this video I show how I made a design and implementation mistake in my dust collection ducting, and how I fixed it…

View on YouTube

You are quite right on the screws issue. Elsewhere in the system, I cut down the screws. I was making this a quick and dirty video and didn't spend the time to cut down…

I really proably ought to consider rivets if I want to avoid too much to grab stuff flying past…

jbertelson

· #4 · Dec 11, 2016

dbhost said:
Fixing a dust collection ducting mistake.

We all make mistakes, what moves us forward is knowing how to fix those mistakes… In this video I show how I made a design and implementation mistake in my dust collection ducting, and how I fixed it…

View on YouTube

I have cut down screws in various situations as well. And although you don't need a lot of strength in the DC duct, drywall screws, if that is what you are using, are more brittle than most other screws, if I recall correctly. So OK for noncritical use, but not so good, apparently, for most construction purposes. Now, to be honest, I used drywall screws for all kinds of things for years, and never had them fail. So the issue may be over stated, and I suspect it is.

I like small pan head screws for many things, so I have an assortment of #8 and #6 screws pan head screws on hand. Although I guess they are technically for sheet metal and such, they work very well in many situations. I use a short pan head screw to secure my flexible ducting for the DC system to the plastic connectors and blast gates. Then there is no need to cut a screw down. They look better because they lie flush to the surface, and are less likely to catch onto things that brush up against them.

Still cold here in Alaska. Even La Conner WA where our vacation home is located had a dusting of snow. That is the first time in the 6 years we have had the house.

Later…

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dbhost

Discussion Starter · #5 · Dec 18, 2016

Wiring basics. How to use a crimp butt splice.

This applies to power tool wiring work as well. Any wiring connection that is going to be exposed to continued long term vibration. Splicing in a new switch? You need to know how to do this. Relocating that swtich? Same deal… This covers a basic skill that I am finding some people don't have readily available…

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jbertelson

· #6 · Dec 18, 2016

dbhost said:
Wiring basics. How to use a crimp butt splice.

This applies to power tool wiring work as well. Any wiring connection that is going to be exposed to continued long term vibration. Splicing in a new switch? You need to know how to do this. Relocating that swtich? Same deal… This covers a basic skill that I am finding some people don't have readily available…

View on YouTube

I never liked the crush butt connectors much, although I have used them, and have some in the shop. I don't do any automotive or motor home wiring work anymore, but when I did, I would normally solder the joint and then cover it with heat shrink tubing. When I install a crush terminal connector on anything, I always solder them as well as crush them.

For solid wire, I was taught to use a Western Union splice in my junior high school electrical shop course. But I tended to solder those as well. I operated mobile ham radio some, and the only way to eliminate reliability issues was to solder everything.

Soldering is easy here in Anchorage. I have a grounded temperature selectable Weller EC1002 soldering station all set to go at all times, as well as a Panavise and magnifying lamp. I also have an old Weller GT corded light weight solid state gun. It heats instantly and puts out a lot of heat. It resides in my electrical tote.

In La Conner, my setup is not as good. I will probably get a better device there eventually.

Later…

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MadMark

· #7 · Dec 18, 2016

dbhost said:
Wiring basics. How to use a crimp butt splice.

This applies to power tool wiring work as well. Any wiring connection that is going to be exposed to continued long term vibration. Splicing in a new switch? You need to know how to do this. Relocating that swtich? Same deal… This covers a basic skill that I am finding some people don't have readily available…

View on YouTube

The only way to use crimp connectors properly is to have the mating racheting crimp tool. Hand crimping without the correct tool will cause fires in high current applications. If you use say Panduit connectors you need the Panduit tool. The Panduit crimper will emboss two circles on the terminal body so the connections can be inspected & verified.

A 'factory' running splice is soldered and covered with HS tubing - 'factory' never uses electrical tape.

M

dbhost

Discussion Starter · #8 · Dec 18, 2016

dbhost said:
Wiring basics. How to use a crimp butt splice.

This applies to power tool wiring work as well. Any wiring connection that is going to be exposed to continued long term vibration. Splicing in a new switch? You need to know how to do this. Relocating that swtich? Same deal… This covers a basic skill that I am finding some people don't have readily available…

View on YouTube

Jim I agree that a good solid solder joint with shrink tubing is far superior to a crush type butt splice, but you must agree from a safety perspective particularly when there is vibration concerned a crush type butt splice is far superior to Simply twisting and taping or even wire nutting a connection.

This particular video was done more or less for the specific individual I was mentioning his situation and the assumed skill-set more or less preclude quality safe soldering. I don't know for sure but I don't think he has any experience soldering and without much experience it's hard to keep from dripping water everywhere and in that motor home it would not be all that good to have Globs of solder everywhere.

dbhost

Discussion Starter · #9 · Dec 18, 2016

dbhost said:
Wiring basics. How to use a crimp butt splice.

This applies to power tool wiring work as well. Any wiring connection that is going to be exposed to continued long term vibration. Splicing in a new switch? You need to know how to do this. Relocating that swtich? Same deal… This covers a basic skill that I am finding some people don't have readily available…

View on YouTube

The only way to use crimp connectors properly is to have the mating racheting crimp tool. Hand crimping without the correct tool will cause fires in high current applications. If you use say Panduit connectors you need the Panduit tool. The Panduit crimper will emboss two circles on the terminal body so the connections can be inspected & verified.

A factory running splice is soldered and covered with HS tubing - factory never uses electrical tape.

M

- Madmark2

We are talking 12v DC at .1 amps or so… And I wouldn't considered crimps for higjh draw applications like a high power amp or a winch.

papadan

· #10 · Dec 18, 2016

dbhost said:
Wiring basics. How to use a crimp butt splice.

This applies to power tool wiring work as well. Any wiring connection that is going to be exposed to continued long term vibration. Splicing in a new switch? You need to know how to do this. Relocating that swtich? Same deal… This covers a basic skill that I am finding some people don't have readily available…

View on YouTube

Soldering is the only proper way to splice wires in machinery to prevent loosening and shorting. I always use 2 pieces of heat shrink, one the length of the joint and another to cover past each end of the joint. I also use a label printer that prints on Heat shrink tubing so the splice is identified. Overkill, but safety first.

jbertelson

· #11 · Dec 18, 2016

dbhost said:
Wiring basics. How to use a crimp butt splice.

This applies to power tool wiring work as well. Any wiring connection that is going to be exposed to continued long term vibration. Splicing in a new switch? You need to know how to do this. Relocating that swtich? Same deal… This covers a basic skill that I am finding some people don't have readily available…

View on YouTube

Hey Dan, nice to see you chiming in here. Long time no read… (-:

Obviously, I am in the overkill camp. And with things that are designed to move, I use two overlapping heat shrink tubes as well… interesting. I have even used three… ultimate overkill!!!

But as Dave notes, for low current situations, the crimped butt joint is better than simply wrapped. I don't think I have ever done a simply wrapped and taped joint, even in high school due to the shop training in school.

.........off topic, but interesting, Dave….

papadan

· #12 · Dec 18, 2016

dbhost said:
Wiring basics. How to use a crimp butt splice.

This applies to power tool wiring work as well. Any wiring connection that is going to be exposed to continued long term vibration. Splicing in a new switch? You need to know how to do this. Relocating that swtich? Same deal… This covers a basic skill that I am finding some people don't have readily available…

View on YouTube

Hello Jim, been fighting some medical issues, but ain't dead yet. I have used crimp connectors in automotive wireing. For solid wire the best thing next to solder is the twist on wire nuts, they do lock tight because of the spring in them.

dbhost

Discussion Starter · #13 · Dec 18, 2016

dbhost said:
Wiring basics. How to use a crimp butt splice.

This applies to power tool wiring work as well. Any wiring connection that is going to be exposed to continued long term vibration. Splicing in a new switch? You need to know how to do this. Relocating that swtich? Same deal… This covers a basic skill that I am finding some people don't have readily available…

View on YouTube

Hello Jim, been fighting some medical issues, but ain t dead yet. I have used crimp connectors in automotive wireing. For solid wire the best thing next to solder is the twist on wire nuts, they do lock tight because of the spring in them.

- papadan

Absolutely true. However when using stranded wire, wire nuts are one of the worst ideas as they just don't hold fast.

I hand't considered solid wire on this as in my experience automotive / RV applications use stranded, as well as the power tools I have worked on.

I personally wouldn't and don't hesitate to use crimp connectors on stranded wire applications Solder and shrink tube is best, but also most time and skill consuming.

For the applications I am trying to cover, there would be no factory running splice per se. At best soldered quick disconnect, but more likely crimped. (Ever looked at the switch connections on say a corded drill?)

hairy

· #14 · Dec 18, 2016

dbhost said:
Wiring basics. How to use a crimp butt splice.

This applies to power tool wiring work as well. Any wiring connection that is going to be exposed to continued long term vibration. Splicing in a new switch? You need to know how to do this. Relocating that swtich? Same deal… This covers a basic skill that I am finding some people don't have readily available…

View on YouTube

I worked on city buses for 30 years. Butt splice connectors are used a lot. On the ones we had at work, the insulation is actually heat shrink tubing, thicker than regular heat shrink. Also, they are color coded, yellow for 10 ga. wire, blue for 16 ga. and red for 22 ga. wire. If done properly it is a very good fix. They are for basic component wiring, when you get into twisted pair, forget it, you change the wires.

dbhost

Discussion Starter · #15 · Dec 18, 2016

dbhost said:
Wiring basics. How to use a crimp butt splice.

This applies to power tool wiring work as well. Any wiring connection that is going to be exposed to continued long term vibration. Splicing in a new switch? You need to know how to do this. Relocating that swtich? Same deal… This covers a basic skill that I am finding some people don't have readily available…

View on YouTube

I worked on city buses for 30 years. Butt splice connectors are used a lot. On the ones we had at work, the insulation is actually heat shrink tubing, thicker than regular heat shrink. Also, they are color coded, yellow for 10 ga. wire, blue for 16 ga. and red for 22 ga. wire. If done properly it is a very good fix. They are for basic component wiring, when you get into twisted pair, forget it, you change the wires.

- hairy

You are absolutely right on the color coding and heat shrink. I happened to be out of those when I did this video. I need to restock my electrical bins… I do have a lot of the heat shrink crimp bullet connectors though, both Male and Female for 12 - 14 ga.They are what I use on my off road lights.

dbhost

Discussion Starter · #16 · Dec 19, 2016

Using a cheap Harbor Freight riveter for awesome dust collection ductwork joints.

If you, like me have been putting your dust collection system together with screws, STOP IT, those screws stick into the duct work and can snag stringy stuff and clog things up for you. Not a good thing. In this video I show you a great, serviceable alternative to screws.

View on YouTube

smitdog

· #17 · Dec 19, 2016

dbhost said:
Using a cheap Harbor Freight riveter for awesome dust collection ductwork joints.

If you, like me have been putting your dust collection system together with screws, STOP IT, those screws stick into the duct work and can snag stringy stuff and clog things up for you. Not a good thing. In this video I show you a great, serviceable alternative to screws.

View on YouTube

That's a great way to keep shavings from getting hung up and a huge improvement over the long screws that were in there. I would hope nobody would use those long drywall screws like that to connect their DC system! I have yet to get a DC so I haven't researched how to join the pipes but do those little 1/2" zip screws that you use on furnace ducting not work for some reason? I know they would protrude a little bit and the rivets certainly would make it near impossible to clog but I just wonder if the time installing/removing them is worth it compared to the zip screws? I guess it's not like you'll be taking the thing apart every day but I know those self tapping screws are lightning quick and would make for a super easy install if they don't catch too much debris. The rivets are certainly the "smoothest" option next to gluing!

Thanks for the idea and video!

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trevor7428

· #18 · Dec 19, 2016

dbhost said:
Using a cheap Harbor Freight riveter for awesome dust collection ductwork joints.

If you, like me have been putting your dust collection system together with screws, STOP IT, those screws stick into the duct work and can snag stringy stuff and clog things up for you. Not a good thing. In this video I show you a great, serviceable alternative to screws.

View on YouTube

I have a PVC piping dust collection system in my shop. All piping is only dry fitted together, not sure why anyone would use screws.

For the pieces that absolutely have to be secured together. I just used the normal PVC piping glue. Once its installed it won't be coming apart until I move. At that point in time, if i cant reuse at new shop. I can just buy a couple new fittings, there not that expensive at H.D. or Lowes. Everything else is dry fitted to expand, if need be.

Not sure why you would use rivits instead of PVC glue, besides the look…I guess

Ted78

· #19 · Dec 19, 2016

dbhost said:
Using a cheap Harbor Freight riveter for awesome dust collection ductwork joints.

If you, like me have been putting your dust collection system together with screws, STOP IT, those screws stick into the duct work and can snag stringy stuff and clog things up for you. Not a good thing. In this video I show you a great, serviceable alternative to screws.

View on YouTube

Well there is more than one way to skin a cat. Personally I'd much rather use rivets than deal with the nasty pvc primer and cement and the smell and having to hold the pieces together for 20 or 30 seconds so cement setting doesn't popl them apart. As far as screws go I guess if you had just the right length of screw they would hold securely without protruding, but unlike sheet metal ducting you'd still have to drill before the screw goes in and if you have to drill a hole anyway, the rivet goes in a quick as a screw.

dbhost

Discussion Starter · #20 · Dec 19, 2016

dbhost said:
Using a cheap Harbor Freight riveter for awesome dust collection ductwork joints.

If you, like me have been putting your dust collection system together with screws, STOP IT, those screws stick into the duct work and can snag stringy stuff and clog things up for you. Not a good thing. In this video I show you a great, serviceable alternative to screws.

View on YouTube

FWIW, I had used drywall screws that I had clipped off, but still had at least 1/2" intruding into the duct. I am giving full credit to Jim Bertelson for the idea and it was something so painfully obvious I should have seen as I am not exactly unfamiliar with riveting…

It's a sign of wisdom when we can take other ideas and see their merits… Hopefully I have been wise…

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