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Does anyone know if SawStop, Bosch, or anyone else has any plans to add blade-stopping capability to other brands of table saws? It just seems a no-brainer that someone would offer a "magic box" that could be fitted to other saws, since there are a trillion "other saws" currently in use. Thanks. john
 

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Well this is sure to open a can of worms. But in short

Sawstop = no. They are trying to license/force their technology at outrageous prices on other manufacturers, who want none of it.

Bosch = probably not. I think they are part of this power tool association which has open sourced some or all of the technology currently being put in the Bosch contractor saw. So it would be up to the other MFGs to make their own adaptation of it.

It would be a big feat for either company to go back and reverse engineer their technology in to the myriad of other saws on the market. And with product lines in power tools changing rapidly at some of the price points (new models each year), a lot of the work they put in could be obsoleted by the time their retrofit kit was ready.

I would like to upgrade to a nice cabinet saw in the next year or so. Sawstop is a leader for me right now on quality and the safety feature, but I am hoping there is some alternative using the bosch technology that will come to market, or at least be announced, in that time.

-Brian
 

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I saw a system a few years ago that a man designed and built that used photo sensors around the blade guard to sense your hand getting to close to the blade. His system would stop the motor and use dynamic brake technology to stop the blade. He did not want to market this his self and was looking for investors.

Here is the link. http://www.whirlwindtool.com/
 

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In a nutshell, The industry does not want to to put the technology on their saws. Sawstop developed the technology, offered it to the industry. They were turned down by the industry in such a way that they went to legislation and the courts and lost there also.
They then disigned and started selling their own saw in competition. They have developed the saw to the point it is quality wise one of the top saws on the market today and competitive on price. I think Bosch will probably end up miking a tablesaw and putting there technology on it. They will have the same problem selling to other manufacturers as sawstop.
I think that with two manufactures offering the technology that market forces may eventually force the other manufactures to start offering that technology but it will be year down the road. Who knows Bosch may have the money that sawstop didn't to buy enough politicians to get some kind of legislation.
 

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Ok first Sawstop went to all big manufacturers offered to license it no one would touch it so he decides to build a class A saw around his invention. He did it and is kicking their butts in sales. Good for him. As to its costs. People think is made from a few off the shelf parts and it should be the same cost as a grizzly. Some don't like his politics butt hey to each his own

Bosch is comming out with a saw called REAXX. It is a job site saw that will compete with Sawstop version. Bet you a dollar to doughnuts it's about the same price. This technology is awesome but not cheap to manufacture. An emergency room visit is one hell of a lot cheaper

http://homefixated.com/bosch-reaxx-table-saw/

Here's a video of the new Bosch.
 

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Personally, I don t get all that excited about stopping the blade, as I m a push block/stick fanatic who never gets their hands within 8" of it.

Kickback is what I worry about.

- HarveyDunn
I would think they could add an additional trigger to deal with kickback, or at least reduce the velocities involved. In general, things (excepting the blade) should not be moving fast around a table saw. If they do it's generally a bad thing… so retract the blade. Ooh, maybe I should patent that idea and sue SawStop for not implementing it and paying me royalties.
 

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Kickback takes less than an instant.

- HarveyDunn
Yep. Hardly means it's not possible. See this previous post I made on the topic of necessary response times. I'm not sure what technology could measure velocities at that rate but then again I haven't dug into high end laser-mouse style motion sensors or the like. It certainly may not be possible at a reasonable price with present technology, but even if that is true there is hope within the next 5-10 years with the extensive development being done for sensor technologies.
 

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Discussion Starter · #10 ·
Thanks for the info. I did not know that SawStop offered the technology around the block and got dumped on. I like the idea Bosch came up with so the blade is not ruined, but then how often are you going to really use the emergency brake? The SawStop quality sure looks like it is there. Whirlwind looks interesting. cheers. john
 

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...

An emergency room visit is one hell of a lot cheaper

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- bonesbr549
Bones,

Think you got it backwards. I could have bought three SawStop saws for what my medical care cost when I had my tablesaw accident.

Be Careful!

Herb
 

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Discussion Starter · #12 ·
Not to mention how inconvenient it is to lose a finger part or two. A woodworker (3rd generation, been at it for decades and does excellent work) came out last year to bid on our cabinets. He had a nasty table saw gash that almost cost him half his hand; he shortly thereafter bought a SawStop. Yes, push blocks and sticks can take abuse all day long and not complain, or else get a SawStop and HOPE it really works. cheers. j
 

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Thanks for the info. I did not know that SawStop offered the technology around the block and got dumped on.

- jklingel
And they also sued all the other companies trying to force them to license and use the technology. Would have set a bad precedent if they had been able to force others to use the tech they had a patent (aka monopoly) on.

Anyways, the first reply really answered the question. It's not a little bolt-on addition but rather a completely different structural design which would be much too costly and time consuming to apply to all the existing saw variations out there.
 

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As for the OP (an aftermarket replacement for a blade drop and or brake system) the answer is a simple NO. Retrofitting a saw would almost certainly require replacement of the entire trunnion/motor assembly along with the electrical controls. While this is probably simple from a engineering perspective the cost of the kit would almost certainly get very close to the cost of a new saw with the parts already installed. Plus manufacturers would have to provide a LOT of support for the retrofits and taking on the liability of these owner installed kits would be crazy. Requiring a service center to perform the install might alleviate some of the exposure liability wise but would almost certainly push the total cost to at or above a whole new saw.

It is possible that as this technology becomes more completely adopted that there could be a retrofit along the lines of the vapor ware Whirlwind but the efficacy and cost of that approach is still unknown. Bottom line if you want the safety pony up for a Sawstop or the Bosch if a site saw is adequate for your needs.
 

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Sawstop = no. They are trying to license/force their technology at outrageous prices on other manufacturers, who want none of it.
Update: Steve Gass has said within the past year that he no longer has any intention of licensing his technology to anyone.

I saw a system a few years ago that a man designed and built that used photo sensors around the blade guard to sense your hand getting to close to the blade. His system would…stop the blade. He did not want to market this his self and was looking for investors.

Here is the link. http://www.whirlwindtool.com/

- English
Are you sure he was using photosensors for flesh detection? That seems like it would be very prone to false tripping, but on the other hand I suppose it might work well enough. Anyway, I emailed him a few weeks ago encouraging him to bring his product to market on his own if he doesn't find anyone to license it soon, but he said he doesn't really have the time or resources to do that on his own and would rather see some younger, energetic engineers refine his design and bring it to market.
 

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An emergency room visit is one hell of a lot cheaper

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- bonesbr549

Bones,

Think you got it backwards. I could have bought three SawStop saws for what my medical care cost when I had my tablesaw accident.

Be Careful!

Herb

Yep but noticed after that stupid 60 min limit

- HerbC
 

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people for years have used woodworking machinery without injury by being cautious, careful or whatever. Sawstop invents a saw with this safety feature and everyone worries about losing a finger or getting seriously injured. If people are that fearful of injury, they should not be using a table saw. To me a shaper with a large cutter spinning 8K is far more dangerous, band saws with close work are dangerous too, even an edge sander can grind down your fingernails and beyond in an instance. Putting fear in someone through marketing does wonders!
 

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People have not using woodworking equipment for years without injury. There are more than 30,000 emergency room visits a year and several thousand amputations each year. The majority have happened without a blade guard.

Forget Sawstop if you want and just use the blade guard when you can. That will reduce injuries.

Table saws have more injuries because it is probably the most commonly used woodworking power tool.
 

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Discussion Starter · #19 ·
no doubt about recklessness being the mother of injury, but a table saw is still a spooky machine. push blocks and sticks are great, but i can see how one could slip sometime and that could get ugly. either way, pay attention! cheers. j
 

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In the old days we used steel dash boards to stop us during an accident. These stupid kids and their seat belts and these younger whiners with their high falutin talk about "air bags" Air bags! The name says it ALL! Bunch of wind bags full of hot air! Better off if people just get hurt you ask me. I remember the old days when lots more people actually died in accidents. To many people living through accidents now a days. Doesn't teach responsibility is what I say. So what if more bystanders are hurt, it'll be a lesson to them ALL you ask me!.
</sarcasm>

Look. If for some reason you don't like Saw Stop technology, that's fine. You don't like the person behind Saw Stop, that's fine. You believe some industry narrative about how this guy is going to destroy wood working in 'country of your choice' that's also fine. But seriously, it's technology. It seems to work. Is it more costly? Sure, but that happens. Will it reduce risk? Sounds like it. If I could afford it would I get one? Yes.

Why? Because as fast as I am, I am not faster then a spinning metal blade (why I used push sticks, etc). And while I never really thought I was faster then flying piece of wood, I have learned I am in no way faster then a kick back. By the time you react with "OH S" the wood is either going by you or punching into your stomach. I am reasonably careful yet still this thing called an accident happened.

When I was 12, I had to interview a person in my family older then 60. Then entire family made me interview my grandfather who was born in 1900 to a family of loggers in the Sierra Nevada's out of a town called North Fork. They cut Red Woods with a hand tools. I have half a dozen pictures which are awesome with these trees twice as thick as the loggers are tall. One of the questions was "What was the 'good old days like?' His answer has colored my perception of those days ever since. He said people died of the flu, people died in the logging mills (when he was a teen) because it was less safe. He said he and his wife were alive because of new advances in medical technology.

I get that some people in this thread seem angry about the 'good old days' when there were no accidents and how we don't need none of this new fangled stuff in our lives, but like I said, if I could afford it, I would buy it now. Why? Because I like my fingers and sometimes I do stupid things (like work tired). I have kids and they want to learn how to work with tools (hand tools to start) and eventually they will learn on the power tools as well.

Don't pretend accidents don't happen. Don't pretend that these power tools are not inherently dangerous. Don't be making claims that someone is 'putting fear into marketing' when they have these statistics to back them up and to many of us know people that have gotten hurt on the job, in their shops or even mentioned it in these very forums. Make your choice to not use the technology, but don't pretend that accidents don't happen or let your biases get in the way. This thread alone makes it 'obvious' that not everyone is 'worried' doesn't it?
 
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