LumberJocks

The Pursuit #2: Paul Seller's plane sound continued

  • Advertise with us
Blog entry by sansoo22 posted 02-04-2020 05:08 AM 345 reads 0 times favorited 6 comments Add to Favorites Watch
« Part 1: Paul Seller's plane sound Part 2 of The Pursuit series no next part

One of the comments on my previous entry about trying to get the perfect plane mentioned something along the lines of keeping them sharp. Tonight I set out to see if I could first dull my planes…who doesnt need a little practice…and second sharpen at least 3 back to make that awesome sound.

First the aftermath…pretty much all of this is from tonight’s experiments. That was a lot of planing.

Second let’s take a look at tonight’s contestants.

The 6 and 7 were kind of a fail so technically I got a 3 out of 5 where I wanted them. I blame the DMT extra extra coarse stone a bit. The 6 and 7 need squared but that stone crapped out on me after 6 months. It was a new release of their’s shortly before I got it so hopefully they will warranty it for me.

Before we get into results here is a couple images of how I prepared each iron. This is my #3 iron with a 25 deg primary and 30 deg secondary. I got a little thick..or is it tall…on the secondary bevel. The primary is taken to 1200 grit and the secondary bevel is polished to 8000 grit and then stropped. I also use the ruler trick to put a back bevel on each iron.

Here is how I prepare the chip breaker. The leading edge is squared and polished to 4000 grit. The down side to this is with the polished back bevel on the iron it can be kind of hard to sight where you want to set the chip breaker for a smoothing cut. When both of them are super shiny they just kind of blend together.

First test was the #3 on a scrap of Douglas Fir I found on the lumber cart. I measure each full width shaving I got for each of the planes tested with my Husky digital caliper. Yes its a Husky so it may not be super accurate but works well enough.

Didn’t quite get a transparent shaving and the caliper reads 0.0020. Not bad but I wondered if the thicker secondary bevel had any play in this. I count each stoke on the stone when setting the secondary bevel and the #3 was 16 strokes. So I backed off a few and did the same exact setup for the #4 except I only did 12 strokes when setting the secondary bevel. I didn’t get a pic of the #4 iron but it looks almost identical to the #3 with a thinner secondary bevel. Here are the results.

So this time I did get my transparent shaving and the caliper read 0.0015 which is an improvement. Can you tell the difference when you touch the wood grain…I sure can’t. So improvement or not in practical use it makes very little difference.

And just to round out the testing here is the #5 shaving reading 0.0030 on the caliper. The #5 frog is set back about a 32nd from being co-planer so I expected it to have a slightly thicker cut.

Edit: Thanks to Ken for pointing out I didn’t elaborate here. I did more in the comments but figured an edit was due here. If you read my first entry you know I’ve read and watched a lot of content on the internet about planes. Most good, some bad, a lot terrible. I didn’t book mark all of it so you’ll have to excuse my lack of citation. However, one blog I read mentioned setting the frog back away from the mouth a tiny bit to either increase cut depth or slightly change the angle. While it may work for either, as Ken pointed out, it leaves a large amount of the iron unsupported and I gained nothing from doing this.

In conclusion the #5 left the test board very smooth to the touch. However the #3 and especially the #4 left the grain with a distinct sparkle to it. Is all of this necessary…most likely not. It’s really just the way I learn things. In my youth and thru my early 20s I spent a lot of time studying martial arts. You spend a ton of time doing the same thing over and over again until it becomes second nature. And really that’s what tonight’s experiment was all about. Trying to get sharpening…or at least my own method of sharpening…to become second nature.

And just in case you’re wondering each size of plane makes its own distinctive sound. But they all share the same characteristics when making it. It’s hard to describe but it sounds like a mix between a scraping and tearing sound. However, you describe it once you hear it you won’t forget it. And its a great way to quickly tell if your plane is dull or not.



6 comments so far

View HokieKen's profile

HokieKen

12323 posts in 1779 days


#1 posted 02-04-2020 06:14 PM

So how do you know that the shaving from the #4 is thinner than the one from the #3 because of the bevel geometry and not simply because you have it set to take a slightly thicker shaving? Also curious what you mean by:

The #5 frog is set back about a 32nd from being co-planer


?

Just curious. I applaud your efforts to build a comprehensive understanding of how these tools do what they do!

-- Kenny, SW VA, Go Hokies!!!

View sansoo22's profile

sansoo22

625 posts in 295 days


#2 posted 02-04-2020 08:24 PM

Some where along my many internet reads and video watching I read or saw that setting up a jack plane with the frog just behind being co-planer was ideal for thicker cuts. The person giving the tip left there iron setup for a smoothing cut and just moved the frog back. This made little sense to me so I was just trying it out.

The no 5 frog alignment. Kind of hard to tell in the small pic but its set back towards the rear of the plane a tiny bit.

And to answer the other question I have no idea if the thinner shaving is due to bevel geometry or not. I took additional pics of the setup for each each but didn’t post them last night.

Here are the 3 and 4 frogs sitting as co-planer as I could get them. The different could really be in how much better the #4 frog seats with the body.

And here is how each iron was setup with the chip breaker. I fiddled with these for awhile to make sure they were both nearly identical.

I probably jumped the gun and attributed the better shaving to bevel geometry but with more time to reflect it was most likely a combination of bevel and superior frog fitment. That or just happy accident. I did measure a handful of shavings on both the 3 and 4 and the average for the 4 came out better.

For practical purposes most of these micro adjustments make very little difference. The way I see it if a little bit of experimentation can consistently reproduce the performance of my best plane then its time well spent.

View HokieKen's profile

HokieKen

12323 posts in 1779 days


#3 posted 02-04-2020 09:00 PM

I’m tracking on the 3vs4 shavings.

However, setting the frog behind flush with the back of the mouth doesn’t make sense to me. By doing so, you’re effectively making the iron bridge an expanse from where the lever cap locks it down to the point that it contacts the rear of the mouth if I am understanding correctly? Which is basically just leaving the bulk of the iron unsupported? Again, just curiosity and not criticism. Just not following the logic and that makes my brain hurt ;-)

-- Kenny, SW VA, Go Hokies!!!

View sansoo22's profile

sansoo22

625 posts in 295 days


#4 posted 02-04-2020 09:18 PM


However, setting the frog behind flush with the back of the mouth doesn t make sense to me. By doing so, you re effectively making the iron bridge an expanse from where the lever cap locks it down to the point that it contacts the rear of the mouth if I am understanding correctly? Which is basically just leaving the bulk of the iron unsupported? Again, just curiosity and not criticism. Just not following the logic and that makes my brain hurt ;-)

- HokieKen

It didn’t make sense to me either but was on my list of curiosities. The whole time I was setting it up it felt backwards. Like why do we lap the frog to remove tool marks and ensure its flat with the iron to then just undo that work. I edited my original post to reflect that this is not recommended.

View HokieKen's profile

HokieKen

12323 posts in 1779 days


#5 posted 02-04-2020 09:57 PM

Gotcha. Just one of those things you had to see for yourself. I totally get it ;-)

-- Kenny, SW VA, Go Hokies!!!

View Steve's profile

Steve

100 posts in 3615 days


#6 posted 02-05-2020 01:46 PM

Wow! You can almost slice veneer with that hand plane. Well done.

-- Free Wood Videos Here: https://bit.ly/2s0LyPT"

Have your say...

You must be signed in to post the comments.

DISCLAIMER: Any posts on LJ are posted by individuals acting in their own right and do not necessarily reflect the views of LJ. LJ will not be held liable for the actions of any user.

Latest Projects | Latest Blog Entries | Latest Forum Topics

HomeRefurbers.com