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View mkyb14's profile

How to attach side board to table - Bowling alley table

by mkyb14
posted 08-22-2017 01:35 PM


27 replies so far

View ChefHDAN's profile

ChefHDAN

1380 posts in 3214 days


#1 posted 08-22-2017 01:46 PM

Just how I would try to solve;
Apply your edge as straight and square as possible. Set router fence with 1/8” (go 1/4” if you have larger gaps) spiral and center over seam of field & edge. Route a dado/groove over the seam 1/8” deep. Mill walnut stock to fit groove width and thicker/depth than dado. glue inlay into dado, let dry, flush inlay to top with planer sand & finish.

-- I've decided 1 mistake is really 2 opportunities to learn.. learn how to fix it... and learn how to not repeat it

View AlaskaGuy's profile

AlaskaGuy

5244 posts in 2674 days


#2 posted 08-22-2017 03:24 PM

Are you saying you want to attach a 1” thick 2- 1/2 ” walnut border around the table?

-- Alaskan's for Global warming!

View Gilley23's profile

Gilley23

489 posts in 747 days


#3 posted 08-22-2017 04:44 PM

If it was my table, I’d run through several inexpensive circular saw blades and cut the sides square. Cut right through the nails.

View mkyb14's profile

mkyb14

11 posts in 643 days


#4 posted 08-23-2017 03:56 AM

yes, I’m looking to mill the walnut to be 1in thick, 2.5 in high (match table depth) and the lengths to size.

My initial thought was to use a forstner bit to attach it with some small screws/bolts an then use a plug to cover it… thinking about it more, wanting it to look good, I wasn’t sure if there were other ways to attach to the side of the table.

Attached is an image of one side that had a dado in it, there other is completely flat. Straight glue for something that will be used for years, didn’t seem strong enough or lasting, though I’ve seen some very old butcher blocks only held with glue.

Assuming I can square up the sides to match at a 45, or cut them to fit if they are off a little.

View jerryminer's profile

jerryminer

951 posts in 1806 days


#5 posted 08-23-2017 05:57 AM

If you are planning to run a walnut strip around all four edges, mitered at the corners—- DON’T DO IT!

You will be creating a Panel of Doom

If you must have the edging, a breadboard end would serve better.

-- Jerry, making sawdust professionally since 1976

View AlaskaGuy's profile

AlaskaGuy

5244 posts in 2674 days


#6 posted 08-23-2017 07:07 AM


If you are planning to run a walnut strip around all four edges, mitered at the corners—- DON T DO IT!

You will be creating a Panel of Doom

If you must have the edging, a breadboard end would serve better.

- jerryminer


+1
That is why I was asking all the questions. I what to make sure I knew what he was doing exactly. The bowling alley piece could expand and contract in it width and ruin your work.

-- Alaskan's for Global warming!

View mkyb14's profile

mkyb14

11 posts in 643 days


#7 posted 08-23-2017 03:58 PM

so I guess I’m at a loss as to doing a breadboard with only 1in border on the table…

would someone be willing to draw a napkin sketch of how this would work?

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mkyb14

11 posts in 643 days


#8 posted 08-23-2017 05:31 PM

Attaching another photo after reading that article. The movement would still occur even if it’s glued well in place ?

View jerryminer's profile

jerryminer

951 posts in 1806 days


#9 posted 08-23-2017 06:14 PM



Attaching another photo after reading that article. The movement would still occur even if it s glued well in place ? – mkyb14

Yes! There is no glue or finish that will stop wood movement. You need to plan for it. If you insist on a 1” band, you could use an interrupted sliding dovetail system (more work, I know, but tried-and-true. A mitered band is destined to fail)

Separate dovetail blocks can be screwed to the end of the table panel and a band with a dovetail slot is slid over them—no glue:

The side pieces—-where you have long-grain-to-long-grain—can be glued on. (I would set the nails—or replace them with counter-sunk screws—and flatten that edge to get a good glue joint.)

-- Jerry, making sawdust professionally since 1976

View mkyb14's profile

mkyb14

11 posts in 643 days


#10 posted 08-23-2017 07:01 PM

thank you for the photo… so for the orange end blocks and the end piece with the dovetail, no glue holds on the end pieces? just the friction holds them together?

View jerryminer's profile

jerryminer

951 posts in 1806 days


#11 posted 08-23-2017 09:10 PM

Right. I’ts a mechanical connection, no glue.

The table will expand and contract with seasonal humidity changes. The joints at the corners will not always be flush—so expect that (and make sure the client expects that).

-- Jerry, making sawdust professionally since 1976

View mkyb14's profile

mkyb14

11 posts in 643 days


#12 posted 08-23-2017 09:25 PM

This is for personal use. Ok any other resources or articles on this type of joinery?

View JackDuren's profile

JackDuren

388 posts in 1324 days


#13 posted 08-23-2017 10:21 PM

Just 45 corners and put screws followed by wood plugs. Yes they were heavily glued…

View jerryminer's profile

jerryminer

951 posts in 1806 days


#14 posted 08-23-2017 11:55 PM



Just 45 corners and put screws followed by wood plugs. Yes they were heavily glued…

- JackDuren

Jack—How many seasonal humidity changes has your table been through since you added the mitered trim? What kind of climate does the table live in?

A “bowling alley table” is somewhat different from a “traditional” table in that the individual pieces that make up the top are not glued together—only nailed. This does allow the individual pieces to expand and contract individually (potentially creating tiny gaps between individual pieces)—so the risk of creating a Panel of Doom is somewhat less. Is it enough? Personally, I would not risk it, but I have never built a Bowling Alley table—only “traditional” tables.

Anybody else have actual experience with bowling alley tables? Do they move as much as a normal table?

-- Jerry, making sawdust professionally since 1976

View AlaskaGuy's profile

AlaskaGuy

5244 posts in 2674 days


#15 posted 08-24-2017 12:33 AM

This article (no I didn’t read it in its entirety ) talks about bowling alley lanes expansion and contraction.

https://www.google.com/patents/US4779868

-- Alaskan's for Global warming!

View JackDuren's profile

JackDuren

388 posts in 1324 days


#16 posted 08-24-2017 01:08 AM


Just 45 corners and put screws followed by wood plugs. Yes they were heavily glued…

- JackDuren

Jack—How many seasonal humidity changes has your table been through since you added the mitered trim? What kind of climate does the table live in?

A “bowling alley table” is somewhat different from a “traditional” table in that the individual pieces that make up the top are not glued together—only nailed. This does allow the individual pieces to expand and contract individually (potentially creating tiny gaps between individual pieces)—so the risk of creating a Panel of Doom is somewhat less. Is it enough? Personally, I would not risk it, but I have never built a Bowling Alley table—only “traditional” tables.

Anybody else have actual experience with bowling alley tables? Do they move as much as a normal table?

- jerryminer

The table was made for “Main Event” headquarters in Texas I believe and have heard nothing negative. I build tables for many restaurants world wide and never hear their fate. I can say I haven’t ever fix a table other than being damage in shipping.

View firefighterontheside's profile

firefighterontheside

20188 posts in 2221 days


#17 posted 08-24-2017 01:37 AM

I built my kitchen island top 17 years ago with a piece of bowling lane. The corners are mitered and have never come apart. As Jerry said, the “panel” is not glued together, but only nailed.

-- Bill M. "People change, walnut doesn't" by Gene.

View mkyb14's profile

mkyb14

11 posts in 643 days


#18 posted 08-26-2017 10:57 PM

Jack what type of screws do you use to attach the maple to the side of the table?

View JackDuren's profile

JackDuren

388 posts in 1324 days


#19 posted 08-26-2017 11:33 PM

4” square drive steel screw. A deck screw would be fine if you have some handy. Pre-drill or they will snap…..

View JustplaneJeff's profile

JustplaneJeff

277 posts in 2268 days


#20 posted 08-26-2017 11:56 PM

Built this bar out of bowling alley a while ago. No issues so far

-- JustplaneJeff

View JackDuren's profile

JackDuren

388 posts in 1324 days


#21 posted 08-27-2017 12:19 AM

Want to make sure that JerryMiner’s concerns are duly noted. Being over cautious is a + in my book…

View mkyb14's profile

mkyb14

11 posts in 643 days


#22 posted 09-02-2017 09:31 PM

So after doing some more measuring before I get to final cuts and sides being mitered, my diagnoal measurements are off.. meaning I need to somehow come up with 4 square sides.

Is there a trick to squaring up 4 corners and aren’t true 90? some form of math equation or way to shave off the extra from the outside?

View JackDuren's profile

JackDuren

388 posts in 1324 days


#23 posted 09-02-2017 10:19 PM

I didn’t go for square but rather for equal amounts of boards on each side. You can square by clamping it….

View mkyb14's profile

mkyb14

11 posts in 643 days


#24 posted 09-02-2017 10:21 PM

Not sure what you mean by clamping.. if it’s not square on the corners and sides, will I not have a solid 45 miter?

View JackDuren's profile

JackDuren

388 posts in 1324 days


#25 posted 09-02-2017 10:41 PM

Get the width within reason with clamps and then check for square. Trim up the ends as needed…

What was the with from one end versus the other end?

View mkyb14's profile

mkyb14

11 posts in 643 days


#26 posted 09-02-2017 10:52 PM

So I straight cut the ends to clean up the nails and other marks. Took a tape measure from three points and marked an equal distance on the other side, lined up my straight cut board and make the corresponding cut.

Upon taking my square to the corners, and a level down the side, it would seem there is some bow to the wood, thus me wanting to now take my saw down the sides of the slap, to make those straight as well.

When measuring the two ends that i just cut and knowing the length is within a few mm of each other, I decided to measure the diagonals… they are somehow 1/2 in off from each other. So I’m standing there wondering how to truely square all 4 sides so that when I go to attach the trim to the outside, it’s a simple measurement and a 45 degree miter.

The width from one end to the other was within 1/16 or less from three different points.

View mkyb14's profile

mkyb14

11 posts in 643 days


#27 posted 10-25-2017 10:44 PM

two additional questions.

1. when sanding, there seems to be some flaking happening between the joints. Meaning, as I look closer some spots seem to between the maple glue line have 1/2cm to 1in peel/flake happening. I can take a razor blade and lift it slightly and see that they are sometimes 1/2cm to 1in long and would create a big chip if I were to pull it up.

How would you go about fixing this?

2. what final finish coat did you use on the surface? there seems to be a lot of movement with so many joints, trying to avoid something that’s going to setup and crack once it’s moved or used with weight on the surface.

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