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How safe is Sawstop?

by MrRon
posted 08-17-2017 05:27 PM


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174 replies

174 replies so far

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BHZ

22 posts in 1522 days


#101 posted 08-19-2017 10:12 PM

I’ve been using a RAS since I was a kid, tablesaws terrify me. So for my first tablesaw I bought the 3hp PCS. Wonderful tool, period.

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HorizontalMike

7802 posts in 3457 days


#102 posted 08-19-2017 10:54 PM

Geez… I need to stop reading this ‘CHIT because the popcorn is making gain weight!

SOS!

SOS!

SOS!...

-- HorizontalMike -- "Woodpeckers understand..."

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ArtMann

1442 posts in 1359 days


#103 posted 08-20-2017 03:50 AM

I know it is hard for some of you to believe but there are woodworkers who do not have the money to buy even the little jobsite SS. If they read this thread, they might very well conclude that using any saw besides the Sawstop will inevitably lead to severed fingers. In fact, the vast majority of long time table saw users have never cut themselves and never will. I doubt if very many Sawstop readers drive a concrete truck around instead of a car just so they will be safer in a crash. Everything a person does is a calculated risk, including getting out of bed in the morning. You can’t ignore the cost/benefit ratio.

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StumpyNubs

7781 posts in 3344 days


#104 posted 08-20-2017 04:00 AM


...If they read this thread, they might very well conclude that using any saw besides the Sawstop will inevitably lead to severed fingers…

- ArtMann

Where’d you read that in the comments? Certainly not in my responses.

Let me quote myself…

Should YOU buy a SawStop?
I think so, but that’s just my opinion, and I won’t get a nickle if you do or don’t. It’s the highest quality saw I have ever used. But I know a guy who makes stunning furniture with a $100 craftsman saw he got off craigslist. He also rides his motorcycle without a helmet. We all make our own choices, take the risks we think we can afford and spend our money the best way we can. But let’s deal in facts, at least.

And your cement truck analogy is a little silly. Sawstop is not the cement mixer of cars. It’s the car with airbags. When airbags first came out, I couldn’t afford a car with them. But I sure didn’t go around mocking them, making up crap about their reliability, or trying to convince others not to get them, as the anti-sawstop folks around here love to do…

-- Subscribe to "Stumpy Nubs Woodworking Journal"- One of the crafts' most unique publications: http://www.stumpynubs.com/

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oldnovice

7505 posts in 3911 days


#105 posted 08-20-2017 05:50 AM

This forum has taken on a life of its own!
Good stuff for every watching.

-- "I never met a board I didn't like!"

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HarveyM

106 posts in 2566 days


#106 posted 08-20-2017 12:08 PM

I made a mobile base for my PCS with four swiveling casters using 6/4 oak. I used the holes in the cabinet intended for the stock mobile base to run all thread through to mount it on the base. The saw is about 1/2 higher than stock.

-- Just a Duffer

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Kazooman

1380 posts in 2496 days


#107 posted 08-20-2017 01:06 PM


My problem would be finding the people to help me lift the saw into that ICS base.

- TaySC

No matter what base you get, you ll need to get it under the saw. I know I ve done mine with four people, 3 lifting and one rolling the base under the saw. Might even have done it with two lifting, But I m not sure. I know I did it twice as the first base I had was a floor model, and something was missing and I got a replacement.

The saws are heavy, but you don t have to do a clean and jerk, just get it 4-5” off the ground so someone can slip the base under.

Beer always seems to work as an incentive to getting helpers. But, rule #1, always do the job before doling out the beer. Always. Work first, beer after.

- clin

You do not lift the saw into the PCS base. The components of the base are assembled on the saw while it is laying on its side. You then tip it upright. I did this myself without any problems.

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Markmh1

112 posts in 987 days


#108 posted 08-20-2017 01:08 PM

As far as lifting the saw, I use an engine hoist. I bought the thing for $200 when I moved my lathe downstairs and needed to reassemble it. It’s a tool I bought that, at the time, I thought was a stupid investment. “When am I ever gonna use this again?”

Tools are always a good investment. That thing has been handy more than a few times.

Mark

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Fred Hargis

5810 posts in 3036 days


#109 posted 08-20-2017 02:15 PM



As far as lifting the saw, I use an engine hoist. I bought the thing for $200 when I moved my lathe downstairs and needed to reassemble it. It s a tool I bought that, at the time, I thought was a stupid investment. “When am I ever gonna use this again?”

Tools are always a good investment. That thing has been handy more than a few times.

Mark

- Markmh1

I always have to do things by myself (out in the sticks) so years ago I also bought an engine hoist. It has really been worth it’s weight in gold for the things I
i’ve done with it…including lifting my saw. But you don’t have to buy one, you can usually rent them fairly cheaply just be sure to have a couple of 8’ long load straps to wrap around the table to lift it. Cheap ones from HF work just fine.

-- Our village hasn't lost it's idiot, he was elected to congress.

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patcollins

1687 posts in 3408 days


#110 posted 08-20-2017 08:45 PM


And your cement truck analogy is a little silly. Sawstop is not the cement mixer of cars. It s the car with airbags. When airbags first came out, I couldn t afford a car with them. But I sure didn t go around mocking them, making up crap about their reliability, or trying to convince others not to get them, as the anti-sawstop folks around here love to do…

- StumpyNubs

Only if the sawstop actually hurt people that would be fine otherwise.

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Redoak49

4240 posts in 2532 days


#111 posted 08-20-2017 09:55 PM

The most dangerous thing about a Sawstop. ....a thread about Sawstop.

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AlaskaGuy

5415 posts in 2852 days


#112 posted 08-21-2017 01:16 AM

What happened to Ron, he doesn’t seem to be participating in his thread anymore.

-- Alaskan's for Global warming!

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Aj2

2535 posts in 2341 days


#113 posted 08-21-2017 05:11 AM

Ya Ron where are you.Hope your ok.:)

-- Aj

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MrRon

5772 posts in 3787 days


#114 posted 08-21-2017 04:12 PM

It appears the thread has shifted from safety to mobile bases, so I guess that’s it from me.

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000

2859 posts in 1442 days


#115 posted 08-21-2017 04:16 PM

You could always start a thread about Health Care negatives,
as long as it doesn’t get political.

(Just messin with ya MrRon) ;)

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TaySC

270 posts in 876 days


#116 posted 08-21-2017 09:07 PM



It appears the thread has shifted from safety to mobile bases, so I guess that s it from me.

- MrRon

OK, back on track..

https://youtu.be/kXyHR-1x-So

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unbob

810 posts in 2447 days


#117 posted 08-21-2017 09:43 PM


I know it is hard for some of you to believe but there are woodworkers who do not have the money to buy even the little jobsite SS. If they read this thread, they might very well conclude that using any saw besides the Sawstop will inevitably lead to severed fingers. In fact, the vast majority of long time table saw users have never cut themselves and never will. I doubt if very many Sawstop readers drive a concrete truck around instead of a car just so they will be safer in a crash. Everything a person does is a calculated risk, including getting out of bed in the morning. You can t ignore the cost/benefit ratio.

- ArtMann

I count myself in there, over a couple of years I put together a complete shop with equipment that was surplused from local schools closing their programs. The entire cost of ten machines was less then the SS.
With a fixed income there was no other way for me to afford to venture into woodworking.
This is the saw that I was able to get, a Rockwell 14”, the 900lb version of the Unisaw. I was lucky to get the Excalibur overhead guard and slider attachment with the saw for $800.
I feel that I operate the machine safely, however, I know better then to stand in front of the blade like the brain boy that invented the gizmo and most others that I see all the time demonstrating that marvel of safety.


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MrUnix

7506 posts in 2742 days


#118 posted 08-21-2017 11:20 PM

I count myself in there, over a couple of years I put together a complete shop with equipment that was surplused from local schools closing their programs. The entire cost of ten machines was less then the SS.

Ditto… although from various sources, not just local schools. For less than what the SS contractor saw will set you back, it’s entirely possible to completely outfit a shop with some pretty high-end tools.

Cheers,
Brad

-- Brad in FL - In Dog I trust... everything else is questionable

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StumpyNubs

7781 posts in 3344 days


#119 posted 08-21-2017 11:51 PM


For less than what the SS contractor saw will set you back, it s entirely possible to completely outfit a shop with some pretty high-end tools.

- MrUnix

When I started out I bought second-hand stuff, and was proud to do so. But I’m not sure you can “outfit a shop with some pretty high-end tools” for under $1500 (The cost of a SS contractor’s saw). Harbor-freight tools, yes. And again, I’ve got nothing against bargain tools for a hobbyist, but “pretty high end” costs a little more than that, in my experience.

-- Subscribe to "Stumpy Nubs Woodworking Journal"- One of the crafts' most unique publications: http://www.stumpynubs.com/

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MrUnix

7506 posts in 2742 days


#120 posted 08-22-2017 12:00 AM

But I’m not sure you can “outfit a shop with some pretty high-end tools” for under $1500 (The cost of a SS contractor’s saw)
- StumpyNubs

Don’t worry, I’m sure it can be done, has been done, and not just by me :)
(and no harbor freight tools anywhere in sight)

Cheers,
Brad

-- Brad in FL - In Dog I trust... everything else is questionable

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StumpyNubs

7781 posts in 3344 days


#121 posted 08-22-2017 12:16 AM


But I’m not sure you can “outfit a shop with some pretty high-end tools” for under $1500 (The cost of a SS contractor’s saw)
- StumpyNubs

Don t worry, I m sure it can be done, has been done, and not just by me :)
(and no harbor freight tools anywhere in sight)

Cheers,
Brad

- MrUnix

Give us a few example of what you mean by “pretty high-end tools” and what you’d expect to pay for them.

-- Subscribe to "Stumpy Nubs Woodworking Journal"- One of the crafts' most unique publications: http://www.stumpynubs.com/

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unbob

810 posts in 2447 days


#122 posted 08-22-2017 12:23 AM

The cost of the equipment that I was able to get together was about the price of the SS industrial version, a little over $4000. When I first considered putting together a wood shop, all new equipment was over $20,000.

Another of one of the “more expensive” machines I found, is this unusual shaper, Boeing surplus $700

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JackDuren

506 posts in 1503 days


#123 posted 08-22-2017 12:26 AM

I’m confused on how a high end tool or not compares with a SawStop?

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TaySC

270 posts in 876 days


#124 posted 08-22-2017 12:27 AM

What I’m finding is that it isn’t so much just the big purchase items, but all the smaller things that add up after awhile.

I think a lot of people have forgotten how much all those little things add up to be when you really start from nothing.

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StumpyNubs

7781 posts in 3344 days


#125 posted 08-22-2017 12:31 AM


I m confused on how a high end tool or not compares with a SawStop?

- JackDuren

I wouldn’t consider a SawStop contractor’s saw to be high end. But their cabinet saw is. At least among machines sold in the USA.

-- Subscribe to "Stumpy Nubs Woodworking Journal"- One of the crafts' most unique publications: http://www.stumpynubs.com/

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unbob

810 posts in 2447 days


#126 posted 08-22-2017 12:40 AM

A 1959 Powermatic 16” planer in near mint condition, $600-Montana school sale.

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StumpyNubs

7781 posts in 3344 days


#127 posted 08-22-2017 12:42 AM


A 1959 Powermatic 16” planer in near mint condition, $600-Montana shool sale.

- unbob

Nice planer, assuming it needs no repairs, it’s not 3-phase, and you can get knives for it. Of course, it cost you more than a third of your $1500 budget :)

-- Subscribe to "Stumpy Nubs Woodworking Journal"- One of the crafts' most unique publications: http://www.stumpynubs.com/

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MrUnix

7506 posts in 2742 days


#128 posted 08-22-2017 12:47 AM

Give us a few example of what you mean by “pretty high-end tools” and what you d expect to pay for them.
- StumpyNubs

Sort of taking this WAY off topic, but since you asked… I’ll play along. How about this 3hp Unisaw:

Came with a brand new never used jet-lock fence and rails (shown) as well as a 50” Commercial Biesemeyer fence and rails and commercial Biesemeyer over-arm guard that I haven’t put on due to space constraints at the moment. Purchased for $150. Total cost after cleaning it up – $193.34. It was going to go in my father in laws shop, which had 3 phase, but I decided to keep it at my house, so I did have to spend another $170 for the VFD.

How about this South Bend engine lathe:

Again, purchased for $150. Total cost after cleanup – $189.21, and that included a few upgrades as well.

Delta 14” Band Saw:

Purchased for $85, total after restore $112.83. As a side note, I just picked up another one a few weeks ago, again for $85. Although the recent one is in fantastic shape, basically plug and play, with original stand, motor and belt guard – only thing missing is the table alignment pin which can easily be made from an old 5/8” bolt.

I can go on… Delta lathe for $50, Unimat lathe for $20, Delta 18” variable speed C-arm scroll saw for $30, Makita 2030 combo planer/jointer for $300 (one of my more expensive purchases), etc…

Cheers,
Brad

-- Brad in FL - In Dog I trust... everything else is questionable

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unbob

810 posts in 2447 days


#129 posted 08-22-2017 12:48 AM


What I m finding is that it isn t so much just the big purchase items, but all the smaller things that add up after awhile.

I think a lot of people have forgotten how much all those little things add up to be when you really start from nothing.

- TaySC

Tilt head to the left for best view! Jet 18” $275, came with more then a dozen new blades.

Nice tools there Mr Unix!

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Aj2

2535 posts in 2341 days


#130 posted 08-22-2017 12:51 AM

I paid 250 for my tablesaw and it’s absolutely the most accurate tablesaw I’ve ever owned.Very quite and smooth it also can spin a 12 inch blade and don’t take up very much space.

Here’s some before and after pics. I like the old machines that I can work on.

-- Aj

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StumpyNubs

7781 posts in 3344 days


#131 posted 08-22-2017 12:52 AM

I stopped reading at the Unisaw, with brand new fence for $150. I’m not saying you’re full of it, but if you think that’s a typical price, then we live in different worlds.

-- Subscribe to "Stumpy Nubs Woodworking Journal"- One of the crafts' most unique publications: http://www.stumpynubs.com/

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unbob

810 posts in 2447 days


#132 posted 08-22-2017 12:57 AM

A 1959 Powermatic 16” planer in near mint condition, $600-Montana shool sale.

- unbob

Nice planer, assuming it needs no repairs, it s not 3-phase, and you can get knives for it. Of course, it cost you more than a third of your $1500 budget :)

- StumpyNubs

No, my budget was just less then the SS ind model, little over $4000. I wouldn’t even consider the contractor model at any price above what any contractor saw sells used on CL-too small wimp saw. I managed to get a lifetime supply of Desposablades with the planer, but did buy two sets of solid knives.

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MrUnix

7506 posts in 2742 days


#133 posted 08-22-2017 12:58 AM

I stopped reading at the Unisaw, with brand new fence for $150. I m not saying you re full of it, but if you think that s a typical price, then we live in different worlds.
- StumpyNubs

NOWHERE did I say those are ‘typical’ prices… but they are out there and can be found if you are persistent. Take a look at some of the stories over at OWWM… Unisaws found at the dump being thrown away, or on the side of the road waiting for trash pickup. People paying to haul away their old Delta 12/14 or Powermatic 66. Even this site has plenty of examples.

-- Brad in FL - In Dog I trust... everything else is questionable

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StumpyNubs

7781 posts in 3344 days


#134 posted 08-22-2017 12:59 AM


No, my budget was just less then the SS ind model, little over $4000. I wouldn t even consider the contractor model.

- unbob

That makes more sense.

-- Subscribe to "Stumpy Nubs Woodworking Journal"- One of the crafts' most unique publications: http://www.stumpynubs.com/

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StumpyNubs

7781 posts in 3344 days


#135 posted 08-22-2017 01:00 AM


NOWHERE did I say those are typical prices…
- MrUnix

Fair enough.

-- Subscribe to "Stumpy Nubs Woodworking Journal"- One of the crafts' most unique publications: http://www.stumpynubs.com/

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unbob

810 posts in 2447 days


#136 posted 08-22-2017 01:07 AM


I stopped reading at the Unisaw, with brand new fence for $150. I m not saying you re full of it, but if you think that s a typical price, then we live in different worlds.

- StumpyNubs

Sounds to me you have money to spend, or are simply too lazy to actually look. It works like this, you have to look often at CL or other for the good machines are gone within an hour or two. The way it is. If you want to talk planers, you need to know a little bit more then you do.

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StumpyNubs

7781 posts in 3344 days


#137 posted 08-22-2017 01:13 AM

I stopped reading at the Unisaw, with brand new fence for $150. I m not saying you re full of it, but if you think that s a typical price, then we live in different worlds.

- StumpyNubs

Sounds to me you have money to spend, or are simply too lazy to actually look. It works like this, you have to look often at CL or other for the good machines are gone within an hour or two. The way it is.

- unbob


Whether I have money to spend or not is irrelevant. However I do consider my time to be valuable. So that $150 saw isn’t really $150 by the time you search for it, buy and transport it, and restore it, now is it? That said, I already conceded his point. So are you just trying to start an argument, or what?

-- Subscribe to "Stumpy Nubs Woodworking Journal"- One of the crafts' most unique publications: http://www.stumpynubs.com/

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JackDuren

506 posts in 1503 days


#138 posted 08-22-2017 01:18 AM


I m confused on how a high end tool or not compares with a SawStop?

- JackDuren

I wouldn t consider a SawStop contractor s saw to be high end. But their cabinet saw is. At least among machines sold in the USA.

- StumpyNubs

SawStop isn’t high end….

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StumpyNubs

7781 posts in 3344 days


#139 posted 08-22-2017 01:21 AM

SawStop isn t high end….

- JackDuren

What consumer level table saw sold in the USA would you consider to be “high end,” then?

-- Subscribe to "Stumpy Nubs Woodworking Journal"- One of the crafts' most unique publications: http://www.stumpynubs.com/

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ColonelTravis

1976 posts in 2437 days


#140 posted 08-22-2017 01:23 AM

Q: How safe is a sawstop?
A: I bought this big lathe for almost nothin!

So anyway, I think they’re pretty darn safe. Sold mine because I almost never use a table saw. Then someone gave me an old Craftsman table saw for free (that I hardly use.) But when I do use it, I wish I had my SS back.

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unbob

810 posts in 2447 days


#141 posted 08-22-2017 01:29 AM

I would consider the Nothfield 18” saws to be high end.
Stumpy, your time is worth less then nothing to me, poopy attitude the main problem.

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StumpyNubs

7781 posts in 3344 days


#142 posted 08-22-2017 01:36 AM

I would consider the Nothfield 18” saws to be high end. Stumpy, your time is worth less then nothing to me, poopy attitude the main problem.

- unbob

So YOU come on here, and after I make only two comments directed at you, one of which AGREED with you, you immediately insult me by calling me lazy, and when I ask what you’re doing, you call my time worthless and then say I am the one with the bad attitude? Got it…

I don’t need to add anything further to that. I’ll let your behavior above to speak for itself.

-- Subscribe to "Stumpy Nubs Woodworking Journal"- One of the crafts' most unique publications: http://www.stumpynubs.com/

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000

2859 posts in 1442 days


#143 posted 08-22-2017 01:43 AM

Just a reality check.
How much time does a person put into buying a sawstop before doing so?

I haven’t bought one yet, maybe someday I will,
I have already put hours into watching videos looking at them at shows,
reading reviews, and I haven’t even started looking for the best price or place to buy one.

I thinks it’s all pretty relevant when placing value of ones time to find or purchase a saw, whether it’s a new SS or a used Craigslist buy.

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StumpyNubs

7781 posts in 3344 days


#144 posted 08-22-2017 01:45 AM


Just a reality check.
How much time does a person put into buying a sawstop before doing so?

I thinks it s all pretty relevant when placing value of ones time to find or purchase a saw.

- jbay

To me, there is a difference between time spent on the laptop in front of the television, looking at saws; and time spent moving and restoring heavy equipment. But if a person ENJOYS the restoration process, then it’s recreation all the same.

You make a good point.

-- Subscribe to "Stumpy Nubs Woodworking Journal"- One of the crafts' most unique publications: http://www.stumpynubs.com/

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MrUnix

7506 posts in 2742 days


#145 posted 08-22-2017 01:47 AM

Whether I have money to spend or not is irrelevant. However I do consider my time to be valuable. So that $150 saw isn t really $150 by the time you search for it, buy and transport it, and restore it, now is it?
- StumpyNubs

Common myth, perpetuated by many. Searching Cl is as easy as doing a quick scan with your morning coffee and checking e-mail. Transport time would be the same if you picked up a new saw at the BORG or any other woodworking store. Delivery is an option, but you can’t inspect before being shipped, and if it gets damaged, then you get to play the Grizzly multiple shipment game. As for restoration – there is no reason you have to do a full blown restore. In the case of that Unisaw, I could have easily just popped in some new bearings and belts (about an hour) and put it to work. Ugly machines work just as well as pretty ones, and I have bought other machines that were just plug and play needing nothing. If you do decide to do a full restore, it can easily be done in your spare time when you would have otherwise probably been parked in front of the TV watching re-runs of Seinfeld or something :)

But you are correct.. that $150 saw wasn’t a $150 saw once done… it required a nice drive out in the country with the dog to pick it up, another $43.34 for some parts, and some spare time away from the TV.

Cheers,
Brad

-- Brad in FL - In Dog I trust... everything else is questionable

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StumpyNubs

7781 posts in 3344 days


#146 posted 08-22-2017 01:49 AM


Common myth, perpetuated by many … If you do decide to do a full restore, it can easily be done in your spare time when you would have otherwise probably been parked in front of the TV watching re-runs of Seinfeld or something :)

But you are correct.. that $150 saw wasn t a $150 saw once done… it required a nice drive out in the country with the dog to pick it up, another $43.34 for some parts, and some spare time away from the TV.

Cheers,
Brad

- MrUnix

You’re right. I was looking at it from the perspective of someone who doesn’t like working on tools. Some people enjoy it. If it’s recreation to that person, and it doesn’t take away from paying work time, then it doesn’t fall into the “time is money” thing.

-- Subscribe to "Stumpy Nubs Woodworking Journal"- One of the crafts' most unique publications: http://www.stumpynubs.com/

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MrUnix

7506 posts in 2742 days


#147 posted 08-22-2017 01:58 AM

You re right. I was looking at it from the perspective of someone who doesn t like working on tools. Some people enjoy it. If it s recreation to that person, then it doesn t fall into the “time is money” thing.
- StumpyNubs

Again… you do not have to do a restore or any work if you don’t want to… you can absolutely get plug and play machines that require nothing. The Makita 2030 I got needed nothing… I bought it, brought it home, plugged it in and have been using it just the way I got it ever since. Ditto with the PM45 lathe I bought… it had already been restored when I purchased. Same with the Unimat. I found a Millermatic MM210 welder on CL from a guy who bought it, then got transferred out of state, so stored it away. When he came back, he no longer wanted it, so listed it on CL. I was the first person in line. Had never been used (was never even assembled), came with a 40 pound spool of wire and all sorts of other goodies, and cost me roughly 20% of what a new one cost (and it WAS new!).

Cheers,
Brad

-- Brad in FL - In Dog I trust... everything else is questionable

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unbob

810 posts in 2447 days


#148 posted 08-22-2017 02:02 AM

Stumpy thing says—I don’t need to add anything further to that. I’ll let your behavior above to speak for itself.

I was only being honest on how I feel about your precious time and your no can do ability, since you brought it up.
By the way, are you still creating saw kick backs? I saw that and thus, enough of you.

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Sandra

7207 posts in 2618 days


#149 posted 08-22-2017 02:13 AM

Oh my – I was going to post something about my Sawstop, but this thread is starting to sound like dinner with my relatives. Gonna take a pass….

-- No, I don't want to buy the pink hammer.

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StumpyNubs

7781 posts in 3344 days


#150 posted 08-22-2017 02:18 AM


By the way, are you still creating saw kick backs? I saw that and thus, enough of you.

- unbob

Again, you are going to great lengths to start something. Even making stuff up now. You saw me “creating kickbacks?” What are you even talking about? I have never “created a kickback”.

EDIT: You came into the middle of a conversation, misapplied my words and created conflict when I had none with you. You seem to have this strange, twisted view of who I am or what I believe that is 180-degrees from reality. None of what you say below is even close to what I was saying. How can two people have an adult conversation when a person attaches some deeper, nefarious meaning to every comment, based on the conflict he imagines in his head?

How about this. I’ll let you win. I’m taking off for the night. Folks like Sandra can see what’s going on here, the comments are all there for people to read. This site is PLAGUED with this crap, people who just MUST have conflict. Congratulations. You chased at least two people away. Probably more who saw your nonsense and moved on without a comment. You succeeded in spoiling yet another Lumberjock’s thread. You must be very proud.

-- Subscribe to "Stumpy Nubs Woodworking Journal"- One of the crafts' most unique publications: http://www.stumpynubs.com/

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