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How safe is Sawstop?

by MrRon
posted 08-17-2017 05:27 PM


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174 replies

174 replies so far

View RobS888's profile

RobS888

2631 posts in 2450 days


#51 posted 08-18-2017 09:57 PM

...or don t have 50 years experience and only get to spent 10 hours at most in the shop per week, or need your fingers for you day job with a keyboard.

You guys remind me of life long smokers that haven t gotten cancer yet.

- RobS888

Using a saw safely is a choice, not experience. But there are people who want the safety feature and I have nothing against it. Just don t pretend like it s necessary and we all should have it.

- Rick M

He touted his experience as a factor in not needing one.

Who said you should have one? Who said it was necessary? Are you sure you are answering the proper thread?

- RobS888

You also brought up experience as a reason for having one. And then compared it to cancer as if injury were an inevitable consequence. I disagree with both those opinions. But you did not say we should all have one, my mistake for bringing it up. But I recently read an article in non woodworking magazine that flesh sending tech should be made law on all table saws so I guess it was on my mind.

- Rick M


Could you show me what you are talking about?

Plus Flesh Sending sounds like home delivery from the butcher.

EDIT:

I was referring to the cognitive dissonance of smokers, not all get cancer, but a lot do get cancer or COPD. Many people do hurt themselves on a table saw.

If you don’t like it don’t buy it, but why complain about it? I don’t care what you think the inventor did.

-- I always knew gun nuts where afraid of something, just never thought popcorn was on the list.

View JackDuren's profile

JackDuren

720 posts in 1564 days


#52 posted 08-18-2017 10:05 PM

I’m trying to figure out why this post was created. Been discussed numerous time already.

Bored or post count?

View AlaskaGuy's profile

AlaskaGuy

5522 posts in 2914 days


#53 posted 08-18-2017 11:48 PM


I m trying to figure out why this post was created. Been discussed numerous time already.

Bored or post count?

- JackDuren

Probably, you need to ask Ron.

-- Alaskan's for Global warming!

View DirtyMike's profile

DirtyMike

637 posts in 1507 days


#54 posted 08-18-2017 11:53 PM

looks like all they players showed up for this one. saw stop is the best Chinese made out there.

View StumpyNubs's profile

StumpyNubs

7799 posts in 3405 days


#55 posted 08-19-2017 12:40 AM

I read all of these comments, and I’ve seen others on similar threads. The false information and downright BS out there is stunning sometimes. I’ve owned a 5hp Sawstop for years. I know many others who have used them for years as well. Enough with the endless theories and bloviating from people who have zero experience with them aside from their hours ripping on them on internet forums. Here are the facts:

Can the system fail?
No. It can not fail. It simply WILL NOT TURN ON if anything is wrong in the system. Period. That makes it more reliable than the airbags in your car, which everyone trusts on faith. (I never see threads about “what if my airbags don’t work when I need them…”) The saw verifies the brake mechanism is working, every time.

Can you disable it and forget to turn it back on?
Not possible. Disabeling the brake requires turning and holding the key before the cut. You can’t do it by accident. And once you flip the switch off, the system is re-enabled. If that fails, it will not turn on. Period.

Will wet wood set it off?
Theoretically, yes. But it would have to be so wet the water flies off the blade at you. If in doubt, disable the brake and make a cut. The system will flash if the cut would have triggered it.

What about false-triggers?
Maybe Bigfoot has false-triggers on his saw, but I have never met anyone who has, including folks all over the country I speak to at public events, and people at Woodcraft and Rockler stores that work with them every day. Even on the internet you always hear someone say “I know a guy…” I have never met anyone who personally has had one. It’s possible, but clearly very, very rare.

Will a brake-trigger damage the saw?
I personally know of several saws that have been set off dozens and dozens (one hundreds) of times for demos. They are still perfectly aligned and running smoothly.

Will it destroy the blade?
No. Sawstop says to replace the blade, but that’s nonsense. Send it to your sharpening service to have the two or three teeth that were in the brake checked.

What about kickback?
Kickback is dangerous, mostly because it pulls your hands into the blade, and as we know, SawStop has that covered. They also have easy to remove and re-install riving knives and splitters, and anti-kickback pawls. There is no saw that does more to prevent kickback.

Is the safety features the only reason to get one?
No, it’s also a FANTASTICALLY designed and built saw. (I speak of their cabinet saws). One pro woodworker I know, who owns several different saws says of the Sawstop: “If Powermatic uses a 1/2” bolt, the Sawstop uses a 3/4”. It’s overbuilt. Period. It HAS TO BE to withstand all that force from the braking mechanism! And I know of no saw with better dust collection, which is no small consideration.

Do you need one if you’re a safe woodworker?
I laugh at the comments that say “I don’t need one because I know how to safely use a saw”, or worse “Only idiots have saw accidents.” I know a handful of people who have had serious table saw accidents. EVERY ONE OF THEM were safe, responsible and experienced woodworkers. It happens every single day to the safest among us because humans have brain farts! It happens to everyone, EVEN YOU! Tell me you’ve never done something in your life without thinking? Ever run a traffic light? A stop sign? Ever merge into another lane and get honked at because someone you didn’t see was there? Stuff like that happens once in a great while to everyone. It only take ONE brain fart to completely change your life at the table saw. Not just shorter fingers, the loss of full use of a hand for the rest of your life! Don’t act like it’s crazy to think you might when the stakes are so high.

Should Gass have tried to force us to use his technology?
Nope. That was an anti-free market move. Of course, he followed it up with a complete 180; a true pro-free market solution. he went out and built a company that not only made saws with his tech in them, they are arguably the best saws on the market even without it! But if you want to ignore the second part of that story and punish him for the first part, that’s your right. (Though he doesn’t own the company anymore, so that point is moot). But we live in a world where we can’t even buy the light bulbs we want because people get the government to tell us what we can and can’t have. You can’t buy the most efficient gasoline for your car because the ethanol folks. Nearly every bit of our lives is regulated to some extent by some government lobby. Are you REALLY going to make your stand over something that can literally save your hands?

Should YOU buy a SawStop?
I think so, but that’s just my opinion, and I won’t get a nickle if you do or don’t. It’s the highest quality saw I have ever used. But I know a guy who makes stunning furniture with a $100 craftsman saw he got off craigslist. He also rides his motorcycle without a helmet. We all make our own choices, take the risks we think we can afford and spend our money the best way we can. But let’s deal in facts, at least.

-- Subscribe to "Stumpy Nubs Woodworking Journal"- One of the crafts' most unique publications: http://www.stumpynubs.com/

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johnstoneb

3131 posts in 2777 days


#56 posted 08-19-2017 12:59 AM

Actually while wet wood in theory might set the brake off. Wet wood actually will shut the saw down without triggering the brake. I have done it before The wood had a pocket of wet that you could wring water out of. I couldn’t figure out why the saw stopped until I pulled the wood off the blade then read the manual. I did what it was supposed to do.

-- Bruce, Boise, ID

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JJohnston

1622 posts in 3896 days


#57 posted 08-19-2017 01:02 AM



My personal thoughts are that some people with sawstop will start to become more careless relying too much on the saw to not cut them, rather than using common sense.

- TaySC

That’s exactly why I removed the airbags and seatbelts from my car! They were causing me to drive recklessly!

-- "A man may conduct himself well in both adversity and good fortune, but if you want to test his character, give him power." - Abraham Lincoln

View TaySC's profile

TaySC

270 posts in 938 days


#58 posted 08-19-2017 01:09 AM



Just curious, for those that are casual woodworkers / hobbyist, which model of the SS do you own? Some of the contractor saws are fairly reasonable in price. The professional series is where they seem to get pretty crazy, but I m also sure that has to do with what you re getting. The contractor series all seem to have a 1.75 HP motor. Is that large enough for everything that you guys do or do a lot of you have the professional series SS s?

- TaySC

Still no answers?

It seems like most of the SS guys aren’t really interested in talking about the saws, but in arguing about or defending them.

View TaySC's profile

TaySC

270 posts in 938 days


#59 posted 08-19-2017 01:10 AM


My personal thoughts are that some people with sawstop will start to become more careless relying too much on the saw to not cut them, rather than using common sense.

- TaySC

That s exactly why I removed the airbags and seatbelts from my car! They were causing me to drive recklessly!

- JJohnston

Apples to oranges.

View StumpyNubs's profile

StumpyNubs

7799 posts in 3405 days


#60 posted 08-19-2017 01:26 AM

Just curious, for those that are casual woodworkers / hobbyist, which model of the SS do you own? Some of the contractor saws are fairly reasonable in price. The professional series is where they seem to get pretty crazy, but I m also sure that has to do with what you re getting. The contractor series all seem to have a 1.75 HP motor. Is that large enough for everything that you guys do or do a lot of you have the professional series SS s?

- TaySC

Still no answers?

It seems like most of the SS guys aren t really interested in talking about the saws, but in arguing about or defending them.

- TaySC

I have used all of their saws. I own a 1.75hp contractor saw, and a 5hp industrial cabinet saw. Here are my opinions based on my experience:

Jobsite saw
I don’t like it. But I’m not a contractor, and this saw is specifically for the jobsite. If you like the Bosch jobsite saws (which are of excellent quality), then you’ll probably like the SawStop too. The quality seems the same, and it has some very clever features.

Contractor’s Saw
It’s nicer than the open back contractor’s saws on the market now, but it’s not nearly as nice as the cabinet saws. The lift mechanism isn’t as smooth, etc, as my early-2000’s Delta that it replaced. The dust colelction is better than most, but not as good as the cabinet saws. I recommend saving your money up for the small cabinet saw instead of this one.

Small cabinet saw
These are nice. Very well built, very smooth to operate. Great dust collection. I am not a fan of the basic fence that comes with them. It’s worth upgrading to the pro fence which is fantastic.

Industrial cabinet saw
This is a beast. Mine is 5hp and will cut through anything. I have almost no complaints. I wish it had a 6” dust collection port instead of 4”.

-- Subscribe to "Stumpy Nubs Woodworking Journal"- One of the crafts' most unique publications: http://www.stumpynubs.com/

View HarveyM's profile

HarveyM

106 posts in 2627 days


#61 posted 08-19-2017 01:39 AM

Running a $100 brake into my $145 Forrest Woodworker isn’t something I’m interested in. My common sense tells me I’d rather enjoy a night out with that money rather than explain to my wife what the bang in the basement shop was.

I went with the small cabinet saw- it’s had (reportedly) better dust collection and it a smaller footprint than the contractor’s saw. Price wise I thought they were close enough to spring the the cabinet.

-- Just a Duffer

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patcollins

1687 posts in 3470 days


#62 posted 08-19-2017 02:26 AM

I remember reading about someone that cut themselves with a saw stop. They managed to do it while the saw spun down because instead of turning it off they cut power to the saw and in doing that this disabled the safety feature.

I can’t even really imagine cutting power to the saw to turn it off.

View 000's profile

000

2859 posts in 1504 days


#63 posted 08-19-2017 02:37 AM

I was helping a neighbor move his Saw Stop when it tipped onto its side and smashed my toe,
so yes,
They are unsafe!
(really could have happened with any saw so in theory, all saws are unsafe)

View RobS888's profile

RobS888

2631 posts in 2450 days


#64 posted 08-19-2017 02:49 AM

My personal thoughts are that some people with sawstop will start to become more careless relying too much on the saw to not cut them, rather than using common sense.

- TaySC

That s exactly why I removed the airbags and seatbelts from my car! They were causing me to drive recklessly!

- JJohnston


Ha ha!

-- I always knew gun nuts where afraid of something, just never thought popcorn was on the list.

View AlaskaGuy's profile

AlaskaGuy

5522 posts in 2914 days


#65 posted 08-19-2017 02:52 AM



I was helping a neighbor move his Saw Stop when it tipped onto its side and smashed my toe,
so yes,
They are unsafe!
(really could have happened with any saw so in theory, all saws are unsafe)

- jbay

w

Warning, warning, some people here have no sense of humor.

-- Alaskan's for Global warming!

View RobS888's profile

RobS888

2631 posts in 2450 days


#66 posted 08-19-2017 03:00 AM


Just curious, for those that are casual woodworkers / hobbyist, which model of the SS do you own? Some of the contractor saws are fairly reasonable in price. The professional series is where they seem to get pretty crazy, but I m also sure that has to do with what you re getting. The contractor series all seem to have a 1.75 HP motor. Is that large enough for everything that you guys do or do a lot of you have the professional series SS s?

- TaySC

Still no answers?

It seems like most of the SS guys aren t really interested in talking about the saws, but in arguing about or defending them.

- TaySC


I have the 36 inch contractor, cns175 is the model number. 1 3/4 hp, with the mobile base. Waiting on the Sawstop router wing.

What can I say it was a joy to assemble and the company has pretty awesome support. Other than that it is a nice saw, much better than the R4512 I had.

Oh, I ripped some white oak a few weeks back, no problems. I can post what I use it for if that would help you.

Although, I don’t think you care how we use them.

-- I always knew gun nuts where afraid of something, just never thought popcorn was on the list.

View RobS888's profile

RobS888

2631 posts in 2450 days


#67 posted 08-19-2017 03:04 AM


My personal thoughts are that some people with sawstop will start to become more careless relying too much on the saw to not cut them, rather than using common sense.

- TaySC

That s exactly why I removed the airbags and seatbelts from my car! They were causing me to drive recklessly!

- JJohnston

Apples to oranges.

- TaySC


Your sarcasm meter is busted.

-- I always knew gun nuts where afraid of something, just never thought popcorn was on the list.

View AZWoody's profile

AZWoody

1477 posts in 1829 days


#68 posted 08-19-2017 03:44 AM



I m trying to figure out why this post was created. Been discussed numerous time already.

Bored or post count?

- JackDuren

I think the OP is trying to stir the pot. Another recent post is on Festool quality. Two topics that have been discussed ad nauseum on this and other forums and end the same way, with people arguing.

View clin's profile

clin

1076 posts in 1601 days


#69 posted 08-19-2017 03:50 AM


Just curious, for those that are casual woodworkers / hobbyist, which model of the SS do you own? Some of the contractor saws are fairly reasonable in price. The professional series is where they seem to get pretty crazy, but I m also sure that has to do with what you re getting. The contractor series all seem to have a 1.75 HP motor. Is that large enough for everything that you guys do or do a lot of you have the professional series SS s?

- TaySC

Still no answers?

It seems like most of the SS guys aren t really interested in talking about the saws, but in arguing about or defending them.

- TaySC

The thread was a discussion about the reliability of the braking system and I think that’s been discussed. Your question just got lost in the noise. As for defending them, I’ve never seen someone defend them before someone else said something critical about them.

Guys like me defend them becasue we think they are great saws. Only natural that anyone who buys one believes in the value of them. And of course, we all weigh purchasing decisions differently.

What makes no sense to me are the guys that seem hell bent on criticizing them. Most have likely never even touched one. I believe this comes from rationalizing why they don’t have one. Though I always respect the guys who simply say “I don’t want to spend that much on a saw”. Can’t argue with that.

Anyway, in answer to your question, I’m a casual woodworker and have a 36”, 3 HP PCS with T-Glide fence. Great saw. I’ve had it about 2 years now. If I were making the buying decision today, I’d get exactly the same saw.

I’ve read plenty of comments with people happy with a 1.75 HP saw. I don’t think I’ve read any comments from someone disappointed with actually buying and using a 1.75 HP and regretting not buying more power. Lot’s of people weigh this very choice. Most seem to give into the “what’s a few hundred more, I’m getting the 3 HP”, but some don’t.

In my case, the cost difference was trivial when spread out over the many years I expected to use the saw. I’ve made some max depth cuts (3+”) and there was no apparent slowing of the motor.

Only time I have a hard time feeding stock through is if the wood has internal stresses and starts pinching the splitter. I can only imagine what would happen without the splitter.

That’s an aspect many don’t appreciate. SawStop has taken great care in making other safety features like guards, splitters and riving knives very easy to use. These items are not simply items SawStop threw in with the saw, knowing people would likely not use them. They engineered them very well, making them super easy to swap in and out as needed.


I read all of these comments, and I ve seen others on similar threads. The false information and downright BS out there is stunning sometimes. I ve owned a 5hp Sawstop for years. I know many others who have used them for years as well. Enough with the endless theories and bloviating from people who have zero experience with them aside from their hours ripping on them on internet forums. Here are the facts:

...

- StumpyNubs

Stumpy, thanks for an absolutely excellent post. You hit a lot of nails squarely on the head with that one.

-- Clin

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Woodknack

13010 posts in 2985 days


#70 posted 08-19-2017 04:25 AM


Plus Flesh Sending sounds like home delivery from the butcher.

EDIT:

I was referring to the cognitive dissonance of smokers, not all get cancer, but a lot do get cancer or COPD. Many people do hurt themselves on a table saw.

If you don t like it don t buy it, but why complain about it? I don t care what you think the inventor did.

- RobS888

Sending = sensing, hope that clears up your confusion.
As for the rest, I never mentioned the inventor nor did I complain.

not directed at anyone …
I’m the sort of person that doesn’t care what other people do as long as it doesn’t involve me or hurt anyone. If you want a SS, have one. If you want 10 wives and they are willing, have them. If you want to worship a bull, a statue, a book, a space ship, or a narcissistic rich guy, go for it. Want to blow all your money in Vegas, have fun. If you do it at the expense of someone else, like your family, society, or anyone in particular, we have a problem.

-- Rick M, http://thewoodknack.blogspot.com/

View oldnovice's profile

oldnovice

7516 posts in 3972 days


#71 posted 08-19-2017 06:00 AM


not directed at anyone …
I m the sort of person that doesn t care what other people do as long as it doesn’t involve me or hurt anyone. If you want a SS, have one. If you want 10 wives and they are willing, have them. If you want to worship a bull, a statue, a book, a space ship, or a narcissistic rich guy, go for it. Want to blow all your money in Vegas, have fun. If you do it at the expense of someone else, like your family, society, or anyone in particular, we have a problem.

- Rick M

+1 Rick M

-- "I never met a board I didn't like!"

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MrRon

5810 posts in 3848 days


#72 posted 08-19-2017 04:46 PM

As always, it was interesting to hear different views. This was meant to be a DISCUSSION, not a battle. Most have viewed this as a discussion as it should be. I am not trying to “stir up the pot” with such a passionate topic. I do like to keep an open mind, much the same as with politics by not taking a hard stand. Even though this post was posted under “safety”, it could of been at home under coffee lounge. Sorry if anyone took it the wrong way.

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Dan P

738 posts in 2497 days


#73 posted 08-19-2017 06:05 PM

So, a 1/16” deep cut for every 1 foot per second. I think I read that somewhere. That seems pretty slow. When I see demos pushing hot dogs into blade I never see any quick movements, like if your finger was getting bounced into the blade during a kickback.

Anyone have experience with this?

-- Daniel P

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TaySC

270 posts in 938 days


#74 posted 08-19-2017 06:07 PM

The 1.75 HP vs the 3 HP was what I was really interested in. I have watched youtube reviews of each and as clin mentioned, it didn’t seem anyone complained that the 1.75 HP was underpowered.

What is the difference in the ICS and PCS mobile bases?

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StumpyNubs

7799 posts in 3405 days


#75 posted 08-19-2017 06:38 PM


So, a 1/16” deep cut for every 1 foot per second. I think I read that somewhere. That seems pretty slow. When I see demos pushing hot dogs into blade I never see any quick movements, like if your finger was getting bounced into the blade during a kickback.

Anyone have experience with this?

- Dan

That’s another myth you hear a lot on the internet: “They always do those demos really slow”. I have seen more demos than I could possibly count. They have all been at full speed. In fact, they ALWAYS put the hot dog on a piece of wood and cross cut the wood with the hot dog to show it is a real-life situation. There are big crowds around those demos, and the folks are always vocal. They would never get away with going really slow in an unnatural way, believe me. At one show (Detroit 2017), the guy literally jammed it in as fast as it would cut, every time he did the demo. The result was a very slight nick in the hot dog’s outer skin. Every time. That’s it. You could punch your saw blade Chuck Norris-Style and you may draw a tiny bit of blood, but you probably wouldn’t even need a band-aid.

-- Subscribe to "Stumpy Nubs Woodworking Journal"- One of the crafts' most unique publications: http://www.stumpynubs.com/

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StumpyNubs

7799 posts in 3405 days


#76 posted 08-19-2017 06:42 PM


The 1.75 HP vs the 3 HP was what I was really interested in. I have watched youtube reviews of each and as clin mentioned, it didn t seem anyone complained that the 1.75 HP was underpowered.

What is the difference in the ICS and PCS mobile bases?

- TaySC

ICS is their biggest (Industrial) model. It’s built even heavier. Mine is about 800 pounds. The trunion is beefier. The table is larger (more space behind the blade). It’s likely more than a one-man shop would need, especially considering the added cost. Save your money and instead of the ICS, get the 3HP PCS. This is a one time in your life purchase. You don’t want to wish you had the extra power someday.

-- Subscribe to "Stumpy Nubs Woodworking Journal"- One of the crafts' most unique publications: http://www.stumpynubs.com/

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Fred Hargis

5925 posts in 3098 days


#77 posted 08-19-2017 06:57 PM



The 1.75 HP vs the 3 HP was what I was really interested in. I have watched youtube reviews of each and as clin mentioned, it didn t seem anyone complained that the 1.75 HP was underpowered.

What is the difference in the ICS and PCS mobile bases?

- TaySC

The ICS base sets a new standard (IMO) as to how a mobile base should be made. It allows the saw to pretty much sit flat on the floor on the 1/8” or so undercarriage frame, when you need to move it the entire thing lifts straight up with a hydraulic jack (foot pedal pump). All 4 wheels swivel so it’s a piece of cake to move it exactly where you want. Mine has the 52” extension and the whole assembly lifts with the saw. I’ve not seen the PCS base, so someone else will have to chime in.

-- Our village hasn't lost it's idiot, he was elected to congress.

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TaySC

270 posts in 938 days


#78 posted 08-19-2017 07:05 PM


The 1.75 HP vs the 3 HP was what I was really interested in. I have watched youtube reviews of each and as clin mentioned, it didn t seem anyone complained that the 1.75 HP was underpowered.

What is the difference in the ICS and PCS mobile bases?

- TaySC

ICS is their biggest (Industrial) model. It s built even heavier. Mine is about 800 pounds. The trunion is beefier. The table is larger (more space behind the blade). It s likely more than a one-man shop would need, especially considering the added cost. Save your money and instead of the ICS, get the 3HP PCS. This is a one time in your life purchase. You don t want to wish you had the extra power someday.

- StumpyNubs

I went to their site and did the build your own saw thing. I went with the 3 HP cabinet saw, with the 36” T-glide fence, a dado zero clearance insert, a saw blade and the ICS mobile base and it was just over $3,300…. so probably $3,500-$3,600 delievered.

Are you saying that I should go with the PCS base and not the ICS? If so, that saves about $200. I definitely want a mobile base, however.

View TaySC's profile

TaySC

270 posts in 938 days


#79 posted 08-19-2017 07:06 PM


The 1.75 HP vs the 3 HP was what I was really interested in. I have watched youtube reviews of each and as clin mentioned, it didn t seem anyone complained that the 1.75 HP was underpowered.

What is the difference in the ICS and PCS mobile bases?

- TaySC

The ICS base sets a new standard (IMO) as to how a mobile base should be made. It allows the saw to pretty much sit flat on the floor on the 1/8” or so undercarriage frame, when you need to move it the entire thing lifts straight up with a hydraulic jack (foot pedal pump). All 4 wheels swivel so it s a piece of cake to move it exactly where you want. Mine has the 52” extension and the whole assembly lifts with the saw. I ve not seen the PCS base, so someone else will have to chime in.

- Fred Hargis

OK, gotcha. That’s the one I saw on the last video that I watched.

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StumpyNubs

7799 posts in 3405 days


#80 posted 08-19-2017 07:21 PM


Are you saying that I should go with the PCS base and not the ICS? If so, that saves about $200. I definitely want a mobile base, however.

- TaySC

I thought the difference was significantly more than that. If it’s only $200 more, than it depends on how much that $200 is worth to you. The larger table (extra 3” behind the blade) is nice to have. And bigger is always better when it comes to shop machines. But even better would be a couple of nice Ridge Carbide saw blades for that same $200. I guess what I’m saying is, if you have the money to burn, the ICS is nice. I would get it. But if you have other needs in your shop, I’m not sure you will later wish you got the ICS when you have the PCS.

Another consideration is weight. Bigger is better, but it’s a lot harder to get into your shop if you don’t have a lot of help. And the ICS base is indeed fantastic, but getting the saw INTO the base can be a nightmare if you don’t have at least four strong guys to pick up the saw above the base, and lower it down inside. Are you going to move the saw regularly? If only once in a while, you can save some cash with the cheaper base.

I would also wait to buy one for their special free base (not the ICS) or overhead dust collection kit deal that they run a couple of times a year.

-- Subscribe to "Stumpy Nubs Woodworking Journal"- One of the crafts' most unique publications: http://www.stumpynubs.com/

View TaySC's profile

TaySC

270 posts in 938 days


#81 posted 08-19-2017 07:28 PM

Are you saying that I should go with the PCS base and not the ICS? If so, that saves about $200. I definitely want a mobile base, however.

- TaySC

I thought the difference was significantly more than that. If it s only $200 more, than it depends on how much that $200 is worth to you. The larger table (extra 3” behind the blade) is nice to have. And bigger is always better when it comes to shop machines. But even better would be a couple of nice Ridge Carbide saw blades for that same $200. I guess what I m saying is, if you have the money to burn, the ICS is nice. I would get it. But if you have other needs in your shop, I m not sure you will later wish you got the ICS when you have the PCS.

Another consideration is weight. Bigger is better, but it s a lot harder to get into your shop if you don t have a lot of help. And the ICS base is indeed fantastic, but getting the saw INTO the base can be a nightmare if you don t have at least four strong guys to pick up the saw above the base, and lower it down inside. Are you going to move the saw regularly? If only once in a while, you can save some cash with the cheaper base.

I would also wait to buy one for their special free base (not the ICS) or overhead dust collection kit deal that they run a couple of times a year.

- StumpyNubs

I think I’ve either confused you with what I’m saying or confused myself…. LOL

I’m talking only about the mobile base. When building the professorial series 3 HP saw it gives you the option for either the PCS mobile base ($199) or the ICS mobile base (apparently it has a PCS adapter and it’s $328). So the difference is actually less than I thought at $129.

As for moving it, my shop is my 2 car garage, so I do like putting everything on casters so if the need arises I can move everything to one side and park my car in there.

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StumpyNubs

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#82 posted 08-19-2017 07:51 PM

When I got my saw, the industrial mobile base was $500, while the PCS was free if you waited for the sale. In fact, I was under the impression that the PCS mobile base was actually integrated into the cabinet itself.

I am not sure about the PCS one, but the industrial mobile base has four swivel wheels, so it will move easily in any direction, which is really nice to have so you don’t have to maneuver your machine around like a trailer. If the other base doesn’t have that ability, get the industrial one.

-- Subscribe to "Stumpy Nubs Woodworking Journal"- One of the crafts' most unique publications: http://www.stumpynubs.com/

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TaySC

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#83 posted 08-19-2017 07:58 PM

Hard to tell on the PCS mobile base.

The ICS mobile base is definitely a step up and the price has come way down from that $500.

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TaySC

270 posts in 938 days


#84 posted 08-19-2017 08:01 PM

Found this short video of the PCS base and it isn’t too bad.

https://youtu.be/wqMp24Zom5c

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knockknock

473 posts in 2778 days


#85 posted 08-19-2017 08:10 PM



My personal thoughts are that some people with sawstop will start to become more careless relying too much on the saw to not cut them, rather than using common sense.

- TaySC


This person is either proving your point, or isn’t using common sense (in which case he should really think about what kind of example he is setting).

-- 👀 --

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StumpyNubs

7799 posts in 3405 days


#86 posted 08-19-2017 08:20 PM

This person is either proving your point, or isn t using common sense (in which case he should really think about what kind of example he is setting).

- knockknock

If you have never used your hand a single time to cut an 10” wide piece of material, you are a rare woodworker. Should you do it? Probably not (although the general rule most woodworkers use is if it’s wider than your hand with your fingers spread, you don’t need a push-stick). But we all do it once in a while. The only difference is everything I do gets picked at by folks like you with an agenda, while you get to pretend you wear your face shield, ear muffs, steel toed boots and leather chaps every time you walk past the shop.

But what does that photo you went to the time and effort to find, screen shot and post on here, have to do with anything I said above?

-- Subscribe to "Stumpy Nubs Woodworking Journal"- One of the crafts' most unique publications: http://www.stumpynubs.com/

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knockknock

473 posts in 2778 days


#87 posted 08-19-2017 08:28 PM


But what does that photo you went to the time and effort to find, screen shot and post on here, have to do with anything I said above?

- StumpyNubs

I am just showing some context of what you consider safe. As you made the following statement.

Do you need one if you re a safe woodworker?
I laugh at the comments that say “I don t need one because I know how to safely use a saw”, or worse “Only idiots have saw accidents.” I know a handful of people who have had serious table saw accidents. EVERY ONE OF THEM were safe, responsible and experienced woodworkers. ...

- StumpyNubs

-- 👀 --

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StumpyNubs

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#88 posted 08-19-2017 08:41 PM

I am just showing some context of what you consider safe. As you made the following statement.

- knockknock

No, you are being disingenuous. I never said that was safe. I said we all do stuff like that (which is far from reckless, by the way). YOU are trying to put words in my mouth to prove a point I never made, and which has nothing to do with the subject of this thread. You went as far as to track down one of my videos and look for something you could screen-shot just to stir up an argument. Then you applied it to a quote that you had to take out of context. (The quote was about how safe woodworkers have accidents because we all have an occasional brain fart. But you left that part out so you could frame it as something else.) It’s that kind of nonsense that ruins threads like this. Congratulations for being “that guy”.

-- Subscribe to "Stumpy Nubs Woodworking Journal"- One of the crafts' most unique publications: http://www.stumpynubs.com/

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TaySC

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#89 posted 08-19-2017 08:44 PM

Seriously though, I was learning a good bit and planing for my next tablesaw.

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AlaskaGuy

5522 posts in 2914 days


#90 posted 08-19-2017 08:54 PM


My personal thoughts are that some people with sawstop will start to become more careless relying too much on the saw to not cut them, rather than using common sense.

- TaySC

This person is either proving your point, or isn t using common sense (in which case he should really think about what kind of example he is setting).

- knockknock


I’ll admit to making that cut 1000’s of times and even with less that 10 ’’

-- Alaskan's for Global warming!

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StumpyNubs

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#91 posted 08-19-2017 08:59 PM

I ll admit to making that cut 1000 s of times and even with less that 10

- AlaskaGuy

As do 90% of woodworkers. But don’t worry, I am sure he’s combing the video archives looking for some tiny screen shot that’s worse so he can use it to further try to argue a point that I never made, just to stir up crap and ruin yet another LumberJock’s thread….

-- Subscribe to "Stumpy Nubs Woodworking Journal"- One of the crafts' most unique publications: http://www.stumpynubs.com/

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Markmh1

113 posts in 1048 days


#92 posted 08-19-2017 09:19 PM

I have the PCS with the PCS mobile base.

Every single time I move my saw, I wish I had the ICS base with the 4 swivel castors. At what the saw costs, the extra money ($130 or so) doesn’t seem to make much difference.

I should call Sawstop and see if I can retrofit swivel castors.

Mark

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TaySC

270 posts in 938 days


#93 posted 08-19-2017 09:22 PM


I have the PCS with the PCS mobile base.

Every single time I move my saw, I wish I had the ICS base with the 4 swivel castors. At what the saw costs, the extra money ($130 or so) doesn t seem to make much difference.

I should call Sawstop and see if I can retrofit swivel castors.

Mark

- Markmh1

I actually found the ICS base at a nearby Mann Tools for $299, so only $100 more than the PCS base.

My problem would be finding the people to help me lift the saw into that ICS base.

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clin

1076 posts in 1601 days


#94 posted 08-19-2017 09:25 PM


Are you saying that I should go with the PCS base and not the ICS? If so, that saves about $200. I definitely want a mobile base, however.

- TaySC

NO !!!!!

You probably want the ICS base. The PCS base has two fixed castors and two swivel. The ICS has all 4 swivel. So you can rotate a saw on an ICS base in place. With a PCS base you’d have to keep scooting the saw back and forth to fit it into a tight spot.

If you have a wide open shop it wouldn’t matter as much. But either you want a mobile base so you can tuck the saw away when not in use, or, like me, you have a small shop and need to rotate the saw between ripping or cross cutting long boards.

Does this mean you couldn’t get by with a PCS base? Of course not. But an ICS is much more maneuverable. I know the ICS is also much heavier built. But it’s been two years since I was in a showroom playing with both. So I don’t remember much about the details of the PCS base, other than much harder to maneuver.

I always like to warn people about the ICS base ground clearance though. The ICS base is a very heavy frame resting on casters. A sling mechanism hangs from this and that is what the saw sits on. When you raise the saw, it is this sling that lifts up taking the saw with it. It easily lifts the saw an inch. However, the main frame doesn’t move at all and it has at best a 3/8” ground clearance on all four sides.

My point is, it works really well on any typical surface, but beware if you plan to roll it from your garage to driveway. If you have anything more than about a 3/8” lip or threshold, you will not be able to clear it. It’s common where I live to have a 1” lip where the garage floor is higher than the driveway. Keeps rain out I guess. Though we get maybe 6” of rain a year. Go figure.

Anyway, that one inch might as well be the Alps, the saw isn’t getting over it.

It’s on my to-do list to shim my ICS base casters to create more ground clearance. This will also require placing a similar thickness under the sling so the saw’s weight can rest on the floor.

I have no idea how the PCS base is for ground clearance. If it were better, then maybe it would be possible to replace the two fixed castors with swival casters and have something better than the ICS in some way.

If ground clearance isn’t an issue, and it won’t be for most users, the ICS base is otherwise near perfect. Very simple smooth hydraulic lift. 3 pumps and your clear enough. Rolls with the push of a finger. Press to release the lift and it smoothly lowers back to the ground.

-- Clin

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StumpyNubs

7799 posts in 3405 days


#95 posted 08-19-2017 09:33 PM



I have the PCS with the PCS mobile base.

Every single time I move my saw, I wish I had the ICS base with the 4 swivel castors. At what the saw costs, the extra money ($130 or so) doesn t seem to make much difference.

I should call Sawstop and see if I can retrofit swivel castors.

Mark

- Markmh1

Thanks, that answered my question about the PCS casters too.

-- Subscribe to "Stumpy Nubs Woodworking Journal"- One of the crafts' most unique publications: http://www.stumpynubs.com/

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clin

1076 posts in 1601 days


#96 posted 08-19-2017 09:34 PM


My problem would be finding the people to help me lift the saw into that ICS base.

- TaySC

No matter what base you get, you’ll need to get it under the saw. I know I’ve done mine with four people, 3 lifting and one rolling the base under the saw. Might even have done it with two lifting, But I’m not sure. I know I did it twice as the first base I had was a floor model, and something was missing and I got a replacement.

The saws are heavy, but you don’t have to do a clean and jerk, just get it 4-5” off the ground so someone can slip the base under.

Beer always seems to work as an incentive to getting helpers. But, rule #1, always do the job before doling out the beer. Always. Work first, beer after.

-- Clin

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TaySC

270 posts in 938 days


#97 posted 08-19-2017 09:45 PM

Most of you have probably already seen similar demonstrations, but here is a live comparison of the Bosch Reaxx and the Sawstop.

I think the guy doing the tests is an absolute nut, but it is what it is.

https://youtu.be/kXyHR-1x-So

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TaySC

270 posts in 938 days


#98 posted 08-19-2017 09:49 PM

Good info Clin, thanks.

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StumpyNubs

7799 posts in 3405 days


#99 posted 08-19-2017 09:58 PM

It doesn’t surprise me that the Sawstop was twice as fast as the Reaxx in stopping the damage to their fingers. They say it is 6X faster than a car airbag. But those tests make little sense for two reasons. First, both saws saved his finger from serious injury. Who cares if you need a bigger band-aid with one. And the Reaxx saw is no longer available in the US, and won’t be for a very long time. And even if it were, Bosch is not going to make a full size table saw. So the point is moot anyway.

-- Subscribe to "Stumpy Nubs Woodworking Journal"- One of the crafts' most unique publications: http://www.stumpynubs.com/

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TaySC

270 posts in 938 days


#100 posted 08-19-2017 10:01 PM

I just still find it crazy that someone volunteers to test something like this with their own hand/finger, knowing they will get cut, even if it is just a little.

This topic is closed.

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