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View Brian's profile

Condensing a 22x22 shop to a 15x15

by Brian
posted 08-03-2017 07:16 PM


24 replies so far

View Loren's profile

Loren

10477 posts in 4206 days


#1 posted 08-03-2017 07:26 PM

You’re likely have to make some hard choices
about the kind of work you’re going to do
in the future. I can’t see all that machinery
fitting into that space and still having room
to put stuff together.

One solution is to stop working in plywood
and jettison the table saw. The band saw
can do quite a range of work.

View TungOil's profile

TungOil

1353 posts in 1053 days


#2 posted 08-04-2017 01:45 AM

I think you could consider selling the 20” planer, as painful as that might be, and replace it with one of the smaller machine out now like the DeWalt 735. you could store that machine under the wing of the chops when not in use and set it up on top of the TS when you need it.

Also, keep only the wood you need on hand if you must store it in the shop.

15’ is a difficult dimension to deal with for a shop- no way to rip a 4×8 sheet of plywood unless you can open a wide door. You could ditch the TS if you replace it with a track saw. Personally I’d have a hard time parting with my TS but might be your best option as Loren said. would clear up a lot of space.

-- The optimist says "the glass is half full". The pessimist says "the glass is half empty". The engineer says "the glass is twice as big as it needs to be"

View GR8HUNTER's profile

GR8HUNTER

6678 posts in 1271 days


#3 posted 08-04-2017 03:08 PM

I use my pick up truck to crosscut plywood with a straight edge and a mini saw horse this works better for me :<))
as far as cabinets go try use wall cabinets as much as possible keep the floor space for tools
and as TungOil mention try point Table saw heading in direction of wide door :<)) in my old shop I also used the window behind me for 16 foot boards
then for tools layout shop so you joint your board then right to rip it ..I also use my table saw as a workbench for 3 reasons nice and flat ,and kind of a huge surface ,plus I can clamp stuff right to wings lightly LOL :<))
here is pic of mine 12 X 24 :

HOPE THIS HELPS YOU

-- Tony---- Reinholds,Pa.------ REMEMBER TO ALWAYS HAVE FUN

View fivecodys's profile

fivecodys

1530 posts in 2194 days


#4 posted 08-04-2017 03:32 PM

Having just been through this exercise myself, I can tell you how I approached it.
I have the option of building a 12×18 shop in the backyard.
I am limited by set backs the city has in place.
I downloaded and familiarized myself with SketchUp.
I drew out the shop and tools I would be moving from the garage to the new shop.
I drew a 1’x1’ grid in SketchUp and placed it on the new shops floor so I could easily see how much room I would have between tools.

It was a real eye opener for me. My conclusion was that some of my stuff was going to have to stay in the garage. I was able to re-arrange things in multiple layouts to see all of the “what-if’s”. I did this for over a year.

BTW…I’m still in the garage! :)

-- When you leave your shop for the night, make sure you can always count to 10.

View bbasiaga's profile

bbasiaga

1243 posts in 2553 days


#5 posted 08-04-2017 03:37 PM

Put everything except the miter saw station on wheels. Move it to a back wall when not in use. That’s how I do my 1 car garage area.

Brian

-- Part of engineering is to know when to put your calculator down and pick up your tools.

View GR8HUNTER's profile

GR8HUNTER

6678 posts in 1271 days


#6 posted 08-04-2017 03:40 PM



Put everything except the miter saw station on wheels. Move it to a back wall when not in use. That s how I do my 1 car garage area.

Brian

- bbasiaga


OH yeah please add this to my response LMAO :<)) +1 AND DITTO ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

-- Tony---- Reinholds,Pa.------ REMEMBER TO ALWAYS HAVE FUN

View shipwright's profile

shipwright

8410 posts in 3356 days


#7 posted 08-04-2017 04:15 PM

I have a 30 x 40 dedicated tool shop at my home in Canada and a 12 x 14 shop at my winter place in Az.

Hard to believe but I can build just about anything there that I can at home.

My Az shop has three workbenches and lots of walking around room. The one concession is that instead of dedicated stationary tools I have a ShopSmith with several “special purpose tools” to fill out the operations I want to do.
(I do rough cut sheets outside the little shop with a straightedge and circular saw.)

The ShopSmith is a very real tool and especially with the dvr motor PowerPro upgrade can hold its own against my bigger, more expensive stuff at home.

Don’t laugh til you try it ….. I did and now I don’t. ...... :-)

..... for more detailed explanation of my SS based shop : http://lumberjocks.com/shipwright/blog/series/4678

-- Paul M ..............the early bird may get the worm but it’s the second mouse that gets the cheese! http://thecanadianschooloffrenchmarquetry.com/

View WhoMe's profile

WhoMe

1568 posts in 3802 days


#8 posted 08-04-2017 04:32 PM

If you are used to stationary tools in your old shop, you are going to have to make many of your tools mobile for the new shop if you’re keeping all the tools. Lumbar storage is another issue. That usually takes up space. If you have room, you might consider building a smaller attached out building for the lumber

-- I'm not clumsy.. It's just the floor hates me, the tables and chairs are bullies, the wall gets in the way AAANNNDDD table saws BITE my fingers!!!.. - Mike -

View bondogaposis's profile

bondogaposis

5569 posts in 2910 days


#9 posted 08-04-2017 04:59 PM

Well I think you are going hate it. It is over a 50% reduction in space. It is certainly going to feel very claustrophobic once you get all of your tools in there. Maybe a few adjustments in tools will help. It will force you get very organized that is for sure. I think fairly quickly you will be dreaming about expanding it, especially if you like to build large pieces of furniture.

-- Bondo Gaposis

View Brian's profile

Brian

16 posts in 867 days


#10 posted 08-05-2017 12:32 AM



You re likely have to make some hard choices
about the kind of work you re going to do
in the future. I can t see all that machinery
fitting into that space and still having room
to put stuff together.

One solution is to stop working in plywood
and jettison the table saw. The band saw
can do quite a range of work.

- Loren

Hey Loren thanks for the feedback. Pulling the rip cord on the TS seems crushing. I’m not yet completely comfortable with the bandsaw to use it to the degree that would be necessary to feel like the TS should go. Do you have any resources you would recommend to better work with a bandsaw? Currently I’m just winging it with the wonders manual.

-- Brian

View Brian's profile

Brian

16 posts in 867 days


#11 posted 08-05-2017 12:33 AM


I think you could consider selling the 20” planer, as painful as that might be, and replace it with one of the smaller machine out now like the DeWalt 735. you could store that machine under the wing of the chops when not in use and set it up on top of the TS when you need it.

Also, keep only the wood you need on hand if you must store it in the shop.

15 is a difficult dimension to deal with for a shop- no way to rip a 4×8 sheet of plywood unless you can open a wide door. You could ditch the TS if you replace it with a track saw. Personally I d have a hard time parting with my TS but might be your best option as Loren said. would clear up a lot of space.

- TungOil

Hey Tung, you bring up a point which I should add clarification to; there is no door other than a standard 3-0 door. This is limiting in and of itself. I think adding a roll up door would really expand the shop capacity. Parting with the planer is something I’ve strongly considered, but it comes with a trade. I have a fair selection of hand planes, but I don’t have a bench which would facilitate that much planing. Plus the 360 degree movement around such a bench makes the tool placement in a 15×15 shop even more critical. Perhaps I’m over thinking this! Lol

-- Brian

View Brian's profile

Brian

16 posts in 867 days


#12 posted 08-05-2017 12:45 AM


I use my pick up truck to crosscut plywood with a straight edge and a mini saw horse this works better for me :<))
as far as cabinets go try use wall cabinets as much as possible keep the floor space for tools
and as TungOil mention try point Table saw heading in direction of wide door :<)) in my old shop I also used the window behind me for 16 foot boards
then for tools layout shop so you joint your board then right to rip it ..I also use my table saw as a workbench for 3 reasons nice and flat ,and kind of a huge surface ,plus I can clamp stuff right to wings lightly LOL :<))
here is pic of mine 12 X 24 :

HOPE THIS HELPS YOU

- GR8HUNTER

Thanks Hunter! Your picture is very helpful. Thank you for that! You wrote about pointing a TS towards an open door. I don’t have anything but a standard 3-0 door. I think my solution involves adding a roll-up door. Do you have an outfeed table with your TS? I’m considering adding an folding out feed table. How do you take jointing and planing?

-- Brian

View Loren's profile

Loren

10477 posts in 4206 days


#13 posted 08-05-2017 12:47 AM


Hey Loren thanks for the feedback. Pulling the rip cord on the TS seems crushing. I m not yet completely comfortable with the bandsaw to use it to the degree that would be necessary to feel like the TS should go. Do you have any resources you would recommend to better work with a bandsaw? Currently I m just winging it with the wonders manual.

- Brian

I learned a lot from this book:
https://www.amazon.com/Band-Saw-Handbook-Mark-Duginske/dp/0806963980

Since you have a 17” model I’m guessing it
can take wider blades. While you can cut
straight with narrower blades the wide
ones really do a good job of it in solid wood.
If you’re not cutting plywood the blades
stay sharper too.

The one thing in solid wood furniture making
the band saw doesn’t do very well is crosscutting,
but a miter saw can handle narrower pieces
and a circular saw with a straightedge can
serve for wider panels.

View Brian's profile

Brian

16 posts in 867 days


#14 posted 08-05-2017 12:51 AM



Having just been through this exercise myself, I can tell you how I approached it.
I have the option of building a 12×18 shop in the backyard.
I am limited by set backs the city has in place.
I downloaded and familiarized myself with SketchUp.
I drew out the shop and tools I would be moving from the garage to the new shop.
I drew a 1×1 grid in SketchUp and placed it on the new shops floor so I could easily see how much room I would have between tools.

It was a real eye opener for me. My conclusion was that some of my stuff was going to have to stay in the garage. I was able to re-arrange things in multiple layouts to see all of the “what-if s”. I did this for over a year.

BTW…I m still in the garage! :)

- fivecodys

Wow! I love this! So I’m considering leaving the drill press, assembly table, sanding equipment, and finishing resources in the garage. That would leave all of the high-sawdust-producing equipment in the 15×15 shop. What would a hybrid solution look like for you? Would you consider splitting up the shop?

-- Brian

View Brian's profile

Brian

16 posts in 867 days


#15 posted 08-05-2017 12:54 AM



Put everything except the miter saw station on wheels. Move it to a back wall when not in use. That s how I do my 1 car garage area.

Brian

- bbasiaga

Solid advice. While I considered a similar mobile outlook, I’m man enough to say that I was deterred on the basis that I wanted to be more lazy. Don’t judge me!

-- Brian

View Brian's profile

Brian

16 posts in 867 days


#16 posted 08-05-2017 01:06 AM



I have a 30 x 40 dedicated tool shop at my home in Canada and a 12 x 14 shop at my winter place in Az.

Hard to believe but I can build just about anything there that I can at home.

My Az shop has three workbenches and lots of walking around room. The one concession is that instead of dedicated stationary tools I have a ShopSmith with several “special purpose tools” to fill out the operations I want to do.
(I do rough cut sheets outside the little shop with a straightedge and circular saw.)

The ShopSmith is a very real tool and especially with the dvr motor PowerPro upgrade can hold its own against my bigger, more expensive stuff at home.

Don t laugh til you try it ….. I did and now I don t. ...... :-)

..... for more detailed explanation of my SS based shop : http://lumberjocks.com/shipwright/blog/series/4678

- shipwright

I have to respect your ingenuity. I’ve always been intimidated by the shop smith.where do you see the advantage—aside from space saving?

-- Brian

View TungOil's profile

TungOil

1353 posts in 1053 days


#17 posted 08-05-2017 01:08 AM



Hey Tung, you bring up a point which I should add clarification to; there is no door other than a standard 3-0 door. This is limiting in and of itself. I think adding a roll up door would really expand the shop capacity. Parting with the planer is something I ve strongly considered, but it comes with a trade. I have a fair selection of hand planes, but I don t have a bench which would facilitate that much planing. Plus the 360 degree movement around such a bench makes the tool placement in a 15×15 shop even more critical. Perhaps I m over thinking this! Lol

- Brian

If adding a roll up door, or set of french doors is an option that might solve you problem. Meanwhile consider breaking down large sheets outside before you bring them into the shop. My first shop was in the basement of my parents house and accessible only by steps with a landing half way where the steps turned 180 degrees. Impossible to get a 4×8 sheet of plywood into. my work around was to break down my sheet goods in the driveway on saw horses with a circular saw and straight edge before bringing them down. Long pieces were usually ripped into two 24” x 96” pieces, which would come through a window, or I split the sheets into two 48” x 48” pieces which I could bring around ‘the curve’ in the steps.

-- The optimist says "the glass is half full". The pessimist says "the glass is half empty". The engineer says "the glass is twice as big as it needs to be"

View Brian's profile

Brian

16 posts in 867 days


#18 posted 08-05-2017 01:12 AM



Well I think you are going hate it. It is over a 50% reduction in space. It is certainly going to feel very claustrophobic once you get all of your tools in there. Maybe a few adjustments in tools will help. It will force you get very organized that is for sure. I think fairly quickly you will be dreaming about expanding it, especially if you like to build large pieces of furniture.

- bondogaposis

I feel like you know me lol

-- Brian

View Brian's profile

Brian

16 posts in 867 days


#19 posted 08-05-2017 01:14 AM



If you are used to stationary tools in your old shop, you are going to have to make many of your tools mobile for the new shop if you re keeping all the tools. Lumbar storage is another issue. That usually takes up space. If you have room, you might consider building a smaller attached out building for the lumber

- WhoMe

WM, I’ve convinced myself that I’m going to move my dust collector and compressor outside and build an attached lean-to to house them. Expanding that lean-to for lumber storage seems logical. Do you see any problems with that?

-- Brian

View Brian's profile

Brian

16 posts in 867 days


#20 posted 08-05-2017 01:20 AM

Loren,

Thanks for the recommendation. I need another book to read, and this one is number 1 in the que!

-- Brian

View jayseedub's profile

jayseedub

139 posts in 2524 days


#21 posted 08-05-2017 01:40 AM

I have a 15×15 shop in my basement, with a table saw on a rolling base in the center (sometimes I reposition it on an angle, to maximize the corner-to-corner length of the room)—but I have to do almost all of my breakdown of plywood at the store or in the garage, upstairs.

I have a bandsaw that lives against a wall on a rolling base, a very large workbench, a floor drill press (rolling base), and another workbench (“Ultimate Toolstand” from Popular Woodworking) that incorporates a miter saw, a belt/spindle sander, and a 13” planer, plus lots of drawers and storage. All rolling, but too heavy to roll. I put my Harbor Freight dust collector in the corner, and have a couple of large wet-dry vacs for dust collection, as well as a small air compressor.

I have wood storage all around, and try to keep all my tools and tables around the same height.

It’s tough. I can’t imagine adding a jointer or a large planer like that. Mobile bases will be your friend, as will a very clean shop. Double up your workbench and outfeed table, of course, and that will help.

View jayseedub's profile

jayseedub

139 posts in 2524 days


#22 posted 08-05-2017 01:44 AM

One other thing that I try to do is keep everything stored either under 36 inches from the ground or over 66 inches above the ground.

That maximizes the entire 15×15 space, between 3 and 5’6” from the ground.

View sawdustdad's profile

sawdustdad

379 posts in 1443 days


#23 posted 08-05-2017 02:35 AM

One thing I’ve found helpful in fitting multiple tools in a small space is to form them into a cluster in the center of the room, each facing in a different direction, but with infeed and outfeeds that bypass the other tools. I had a TS with two band saws and a jointer in a cluster in a prior shop. Also had a router in the TS extension.

Here’s a pic.

-- Murphy's Carpentry Corollary #3: Half of all boards cut to a specific length will be too short.

View shipwright's profile

shipwright

8410 posts in 3356 days


#24 posted 08-05-2017 03:34 AM



I have to respect your ingenuity. I ve always been intimidated by the shop smith.where do you see the advantage—aside from space saving?

- Brian

Well space saving is the topic here, correct. My point is that if you don’t have space for all the toys, SS will get it done for you. They are excellent tools in the hands of a good woodworker. As I said I used to be a SS naysayer but I’ve changed my tune.
This is a project I did years ago almost all on a 1950 SS 10er, just to prove the point. The Mark V’s are much more versatile machines and with PowerPro even better.

-- Paul M ..............the early bird may get the worm but it’s the second mouse that gets the cheese! http://thecanadianschooloffrenchmarquetry.com/

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