LumberJocks

All Replies on ELECTRIC MOTOR **HELP**

  • Advertise with us
View GR8HUNTER's profile (online now)

ELECTRIC MOTOR **HELP**

by GR8HUNTER
posted 07-28-2017 09:35 PM


46 replies so far

View  woodshaver Tony C   's profile

woodshaver Tony C

6972 posts in 3918 days


#1 posted 07-28-2017 09:45 PM

I’m not sure if this is any help but are the brushes ok?

-- St Augustine FL, Experience is the sum of our mistakes!

View GR8HUNTER's profile (online now)

GR8HUNTER

6708 posts in 1277 days


#2 posted 07-28-2017 09:47 PM

I’m not even sure how to check that out Tony ?? :<((

-- Tony---- Reinholds,Pa.------ REMEMBER TO ALWAYS HAVE FUN

View Loren's profile

Loren

10477 posts in 4213 days


#3 posted 07-28-2017 09:51 PM

“The capacitor is the component through which power is drawn, accordingly, if the fans fail to rotate at all or only works intermittently, the capacitor may be to blame. If the motor stops working, the capacitor may be the cause.”

source: http://www.doityourself.com/stry/3-ways-to-tell-if-you-need-a-new-motor-capacitor

View  woodshaver Tony C   's profile

woodshaver Tony C

6972 posts in 3918 days


#4 posted 07-28-2017 09:56 PM

I think Loren has the right answer!

-- St Augustine FL, Experience is the sum of our mistakes!

View GR8HUNTER's profile (online now)

GR8HUNTER

6708 posts in 1277 days


#5 posted 07-28-2017 11:11 PM

I’m not sure this motor has a capacitor Loren if it does would have a bump on it CORRECT ????

-- Tony---- Reinholds,Pa.------ REMEMBER TO ALWAYS HAVE FUN

View  woodshaver Tony C   's profile

woodshaver Tony C

6972 posts in 3918 days


#6 posted 07-28-2017 11:28 PM

Found some info that might help. Maybe Laren can step in for more help here….

Question: Received motor today and wired to test out. Thermal protection keeps shutting motor down, did I get a bad one?
Answer: Check wiring diagram carefully as well as the color of the wires and voltage selection. I was not clearly outlined for the motor that I received. Once I figured out diagram all went well and has worked almost non stop flawlessly.
By Bub Bear on July 20, 2017
make sure the load on the motor is not too high. How? I don’t really know but they’re really sensitive!
By RonG on July 21, 2017
I never had that problem before with this motor. do a amp test on the motor and see if it pulling to many amps. if so then motor may be bad, check the voltage and make sure it 115
By Amazon Customer on July 20, 2017

-- St Augustine FL, Experience is the sum of our mistakes!

View Loren's profile

Loren

10477 posts in 4213 days


#7 posted 07-28-2017 11:30 PM

Generally yes, but some motors don’t have
them. I don’t know how those work. All
the motors I’ve fussed with have had capacitors.

View  woodshaver Tony C   's profile

woodshaver Tony C

6972 posts in 3918 days


#8 posted 07-28-2017 11:42 PM

Found your motor and it says it has overload protection. Check your wiring. It may be wired wrong and the overload protection is shutting the motor down.

-- St Augustine FL, Experience is the sum of our mistakes!

View lew's profile

lew

12901 posts in 4320 days


#9 posted 07-29-2017 12:00 AM

Could it be the dust impeller blade is tight? Just working backwards.

-- Lew- Time traveler. Purveyor of the Universe's finest custom rolling pins.

View GR8HUNTER's profile (online now)

GR8HUNTER

6708 posts in 1277 days


#10 posted 07-29-2017 12:01 AM

that’s sounds like the closest to my problem I think motor housing is getting too hot then themal protection takes over

-- Tony---- Reinholds,Pa.------ REMEMBER TO ALWAYS HAVE FUN

View  woodshaver Tony C   's profile

woodshaver Tony C

6972 posts in 3918 days


#11 posted 07-29-2017 12:07 AM

And that would explain why it is turning back on after it cools off.

-- St Augustine FL, Experience is the sum of our mistakes!

View Holbs's profile

Holbs

2254 posts in 2594 days


#12 posted 07-29-2017 12:07 AM

my 1/2 HP didn’t have a capacitor (which shocked me… haha!). granted, this was a 1/2 HP motor for a evap cooler. Thanks to someone’s post, I cleaned up the centrifugal switch and it functioned 100%. For my problem, it would not even rotate. Unsure what running for 15 seconds would mean.
but yea…if the motor housing itself was getting hot, there is issue inside. Tear it down and take a gander at the windings to see if any smell of burnt or visual of anything burnt. Though I love DIY stuff, re-doing the windings if they were faulty would be too far down the rabbit hole for me to follow.

-- The Carpenter Bee is derived from the Ancient Greek word wood-cutter "xylokopos/ξυλοκὀπος"

View MrUnix's profile

MrUnix

7533 posts in 2764 days


#13 posted 07-29-2017 12:14 AM

Sounds like the thermal switch (Klixon) kicking in and out to me. That motor has sleeve bearings – have you oiled them?

Cheers,
Brad

-- Brad in FL - In Dog I trust... everything else is questionable

View GR8HUNTER's profile (online now)

GR8HUNTER

6708 posts in 1277 days


#14 posted 07-29-2017 12:27 AM

no I have not oiled them Brad…. I WILL try that

there is only 2 wires coming out of motor so not really sure I have the wiring wrong Tony BUT it does say MOTOR MUST BE GROUNDED I thought it was when I put it onto the squirrel cage ???

-- Tony---- Reinholds,Pa.------ REMEMBER TO ALWAYS HAVE FUN

View Andybb's profile

Andybb

2236 posts in 1168 days


#15 posted 07-29-2017 12:47 AM

I too would look at whatever the belt is attached to. 15 seconds is mighty quick for a thermal issue. It would have to get mighty hot mighty quick to trip that in 15 seconds and take 5 mins to reset, That thermal switch doesn’t have a time on it. It’s taking that long to cool down especially if the motor turns freely by hand. So, is whatever it’s turning putting a load on it? Does the motor turn freely when the belt is on? It’s only turning a fan or impeller which should both spin freely and neither should put.a real “load” on a 1/2hp motor. Otherwise it sounds like a bad motor (or thermal switch) but unless you can find a separate thermal switch that makes it a bad motor. Is it new? Brad is certainly more experienced than I but if the bearings needed oil that badly it would be damn near seized up and wouldn’t run on the bench with no issues IMHO.

-- Andy - Seattle USA

View GR8HUNTER's profile (online now)

GR8HUNTER

6708 posts in 1277 days


#16 posted 07-29-2017 12:58 AM

5 mins was a rough estimate could only be 1 min. both the motor and the squirrel cage turn very easy even with the belt on motor starts right up but then dies 15 or 20 seconds later then maybe a min or so and NO motor is not new on my bench runs forever as soon as I put motor weight on it that’s when it stops I’m thinking its thermal protected somehow :<((

-- Tony---- Reinholds,Pa.------ REMEMBER TO ALWAYS HAVE FUN

View  woodshaver Tony C   's profile

woodshaver Tony C

6972 posts in 3918 days


#17 posted 07-29-2017 01:02 AM

It says the motor needs to be grounded. Shouldn’t he have 3 wires coming out of the motor. A Line, A Neutral one one Green ground wire? And for counter rotation you interchange the RED and Black wires.

-- St Augustine FL, Experience is the sum of our mistakes!

View Andybb's profile

Andybb

2236 posts in 1168 days


#18 posted 07-29-2017 01:04 AM

Not sure what you mean by “motor weight”. You seem to be saying the squirrel cage turns freely even with the belt on/ What is this “motor weight” you speak of??

-- Andy - Seattle USA

View tomd's profile

tomd

2214 posts in 4335 days


#19 posted 07-29-2017 01:06 AM

Sounds like the centrifugal switch may not be closing. Try blowing the motor out with compressed air. Doesn’t cost anything to try.

-- Tom D

View  woodshaver Tony C   's profile

woodshaver Tony C

6972 posts in 3918 days


#20 posted 07-29-2017 01:09 AM

I did a new search and came up with this.
https://www.quora.com/Why-does-my-electric-motor-shut-off-after-running-for-about-20-seconds

” I recently had a furnace motor that was doing the same thing, and found that the starter windings were shot. Occasionally the motor would be able to start but most of the time it would fail and take a couple of minutes to cool down before trying again.”

-- St Augustine FL, Experience is the sum of our mistakes!

View TungOil's profile

TungOil

1355 posts in 1060 days


#21 posted 07-29-2017 01:14 AM

sounds like you have too much load on the motor. If you have access to a clamp on amp meter you can test this by clamping the meter around one of the legs (black or white) and checking the amp draw. my suspicion is that it will be well above the 7.2 shown on the nameplate. If so, you need a bigger motor.

-- The optimist says "the glass is half full". The pessimist says "the glass is half empty". The engineer says "the glass is twice as big as it needs to be"

View Andybb's profile

Andybb

2236 posts in 1168 days


#22 posted 07-29-2017 01:20 AM



sounds like you have too much load on the motor. If you have access to a clamp on amp meter you can test this by clamping the meter around one of the legs (black or white) and checking the amp draw. my suspicion is that it will be well above the 7.2 shown on the nameplate. If so, you need a bigger motor.

- TungOil


That makes sense but I just can’t see how a squirrel cage that spins freely can put too much load on a 1/2hp motor. It’s not like its trying to spin a drum sander.

-- Andy - Seattle USA

View TungOil's profile

TungOil

1355 posts in 1060 days


#23 posted 07-29-2017 01:25 AM



That makes sense but I just can t see how a squirrel cage that spins freely can put too much load on a 1/2hp motor. It s not like its trying to spin a drum sander.

- Andybb


you would be surprised how much power it takes to move air.

-- The optimist says "the glass is half full". The pessimist says "the glass is half empty". The engineer says "the glass is twice as big as it needs to be"

View Andybb's profile

Andybb

2236 posts in 1168 days


#24 posted 07-29-2017 01:28 AM

That makes sense but I just can t see how a squirrel cage that spins freely can put too much load on a 1/2hp motor. It s not like its trying to spin a drum sander.

- Andybb

you would be surprised how much power it takes to move air.

- TungOil

Good point. He might need a bigger boat. I’m officially stumped. Still want to know what “motor weight” is. Looking online, dryer motors are 1/2” hp. You’d think a squirrel cage would be no problem.

-- Andy - Seattle USA

View GR8HUNTER's profile (online now)

GR8HUNTER

6708 posts in 1277 days


#25 posted 07-29-2017 02:50 AM

hey Andy if I take off bracket and just let motor hanging on belt so in other words let the weight of the motor hanging from the pulley hope this explains it better


It says the motor needs to be grounded. Shouldn t he have 3 wires coming out of the motor. A Line, A Neutral one one Green ground wire? And for counter rotation you interchange the RED and Black wires.

- woodshaver Tony C

think your on to something Tony


sounds like you have too much load on the motor. If you have access to a clamp on amp meter you can test this by clamping the meter around one of the legs (black or white) and checking the amp draw. my suspicion is that it will be well above the 7.2 shown on the nameplate. If so, you need a bigger motor.

- TungOil

not it either…... now I have a 1/4 HP spinning it …just not fast enough …..JUST TOO SEE IF IT WORKS

-- Tony---- Reinholds,Pa.------ REMEMBER TO ALWAYS HAVE FUN

View bushmaster's profile

bushmaster

3735 posts in 2848 days


#26 posted 07-29-2017 01:20 PM

Whatever the problem is, don’t take a chance around fine dust, could be a fire waiting to happen, get a enclosed motor that works 100%. something are not worth fixing in the long run.

-- Brian - Hazelton, British Columbia

View splintergroup's profile

splintergroup

3067 posts in 1787 days


#27 posted 07-29-2017 01:43 PM

That looks like a typical swamp cooler motor. When they run for a few seconds then cut off, usually it is the centrifugal switch that selects start/run windings.

You can pull off the end cap to access the switch and clean the contacts. (assuming everything is wired correctly 8^)

View Holbs's profile

Holbs

2254 posts in 2594 days


#28 posted 07-29-2017 01:45 PM

for reference, 1/2 HP motors drive 5500 CFM squirrel cages in evap coolers.

-- The Carpenter Bee is derived from the Ancient Greek word wood-cutter "xylokopos/ξυλοκὀπος"

View GR8HUNTER's profile (online now)

GR8HUNTER

6708 posts in 1277 days


#29 posted 07-29-2017 02:06 PM

as soon as I get my lazy behind out in the shop I am going to try 3 wires …A GREEN GROUND

-- Tony---- Reinholds,Pa.------ REMEMBER TO ALWAYS HAVE FUN

View Sparks500's profile

Sparks500

255 posts in 896 days


#30 posted 07-29-2017 03:52 PM

I’d look at the centrifugal switch too. Sounds like it’s stuck in start. as simple as it is, it’d be hard to get the wiring wrong. Maybe post a pic of the wiring compartment?

-- A good day is any day that you're alive....

View Sparks500's profile

Sparks500

255 posts in 896 days


#31 posted 07-29-2017 03:54 PM



It says the motor needs to be grounded. Shouldn t he have 3 wires coming out of the motor. A Line, A Neutral one one Green ground wire? And for counter rotation you interchange the RED and Black wires.

- woodshaver Tony C

The white neutral goes to L2, the green will usually go to a green screw on the casting somewhere.

-- A good day is any day that you're alive....

View GR8HUNTER's profile (online now)

GR8HUNTER

6708 posts in 1277 days


#32 posted 07-29-2017 07:17 PM

I hooked up the green wire to green screw inside cover …..no change whatsoever I also oiled it ….no change I am starting to think motor is shot ....not sure what else I can do ...being non electrical smart :<((

-- Tony---- Reinholds,Pa.------ REMEMBER TO ALWAYS HAVE FUN

View MrUnix's profile

MrUnix

7533 posts in 2764 days


#33 posted 07-29-2017 07:23 PM

Grounding would not fix anything other than prevent you from getting a shock in the event of a short. Open the motor up… it should only be 4 long screws and the end bells will pop off. Clean it out, check the windings and wiring for obvious damage, make sure the centrifugal switch is working and maybe give it a little lube while you are in there. It may also have a capacitor inside one of the end bells. If it does, check with a cheap multimeter to verify it’s good. It also may have a bad thermal protector… they are known to go bad with age and repeated tripping.

Cheers,
Brad

PS: To eliminate the thermal switch as a culprit, you can temporarily bypass it with a short piece of wire, or depending on the particular switch, by moving a couple of wires.

-- Brad in FL - In Dog I trust... everything else is questionable

View GR8HUNTER's profile (online now)

GR8HUNTER

6708 posts in 1277 days


#34 posted 07-29-2017 09:02 PM

UPDATE : when it shuts off ..it will not start again till I hear a little click in it …then it runs again for maybe like 5 seconds :<((

-- Tony---- Reinholds,Pa.------ REMEMBER TO ALWAYS HAVE FUN

View Sparks500's profile

Sparks500

255 posts in 896 days


#35 posted 07-30-2017 12:14 AM

Open the little wiring compartment and let us take a look at it

-- A good day is any day that you're alive....

View htl's profile

htl

4861 posts in 1724 days


#36 posted 07-30-2017 12:30 AM

Very interesting

-- An Index Of My Model making Blogs https://www.lumberjocks.com/htl/blog/130264

View Andybb's profile

Andybb

2236 posts in 1168 days


#37 posted 07-30-2017 02:03 AM

So…..I think it’s time to either use that 1/4hp that you said it works with or get another motor. You could probably find a used 1/2 or 3/4hp on either Craigslist or at a repair shop for $20-$30.

But….here is a zero cost option. Make a pulley, or depending on the size of the pulleys you have you might be able to swap them.

Look at the 1/4hp and get the rpm. Use this to calculate the pulley sizes you need to make the squirrel cage spin at the speed you want. http://www.culvermotor.com/Engineering-Formulas/Pulley-and-RPM-Calculator.html In my case I wanted my drum sander with room for a 3.5” pulley to spin at 1800 rpm using a motor that spins at 1420.

I made these 2 pulleys out of plywood over 2 years ago and they are still going strong. I don’t have a lathe. Lots of examples on youtube depending on the tools you have.

If you want to verify the rpm, there’s phone apps for that.

-- Andy - Seattle USA

View MrUnix's profile

MrUnix

7533 posts in 2764 days


#38 posted 07-30-2017 02:12 AM

I wanted my drum sander with room for a 3.5” pulley to spin at 1800 rpm using a motor that spins at 1420.

Curious as to where you got a 1420rpm motor? Only asking because a standard 4-pole induction motor is typically listed at 1420 rpm when run on 50hz (1500 rpm no load speed), not on standard US 60hz service.

Cheers,
Brad

-- Brad in FL - In Dog I trust... everything else is questionable

View GR8HUNTER's profile (online now)

GR8HUNTER

6708 posts in 1277 days


#39 posted 07-30-2017 02:23 AM

a huge thank you to everyone for all the help …but I am going to take it back Monday and ask for another one …or this one to be fixed …..will keep you guys posted THANKS AGAIN :<))

-- Tony---- Reinholds,Pa.------ REMEMBER TO ALWAYS HAVE FUN

View Rarebreed68's profile

Rarebreed68

148 posts in 866 days


#40 posted 07-30-2017 02:30 AM

The clicking sound you hear before it will start up again sounds like the thermal overload switch resetting itself. If you have the option of getting it replaced, I think that’s what I would do.

-- EARTH FIRST! We'll log the other planets later. Trust your neighbors, but brand your calves. Opinion worth price charged.

View Andybb's profile

Andybb

2236 posts in 1168 days


#41 posted 07-30-2017 02:34 AM


I wanted my drum sander with room for a 3.5” pulley to spin at 1800 rpm using a motor that spins at 1420.

Curious as to where you got a 1420rpm motor? Only asking because a standard 4-pole induction motor is typically listed at 1420 rpm when run on 50hz (1500 rpm no load speed), not on standard US 60hz service.

Cheers,
Brad

- MrUnix


Came out of a Harbor freight band saw.

-- Andy - Seattle USA

View MrUnix's profile

MrUnix

7533 posts in 2764 days


#42 posted 07-30-2017 02:39 AM

Came out of a Harbor freight band saw.

- Andybb

Yup… what you got there is a standard 4-pole induction motor. At 60hz, it runs at 1725 rpm (1800 rpm no load). At 50hz, it runs at 1420 rpm (1500 rpm no load).

Cheers,
Brad

PS: Tony – if we knew taking it back for a replacement was an option… this thread would have ended after about the second post :)

-- Brad in FL - In Dog I trust... everything else is questionable

View Andybb's profile

Andybb

2236 posts in 1168 days


#43 posted 07-30-2017 02:53 AM

Thanks Brad. Good to know. So my drum is spinning faster. Never checked it. Just assumed it was 1420. Guess it’s running at 2211. Close enough. :-)


PS: Tony – if we knew taking it back for a replacement was an option… this thread would have ended after about the second post :)

- MrUnix

No s**t! :-)

-- Andy - Seattle USA

View GR8HUNTER's profile (online now)

GR8HUNTER

6708 posts in 1277 days


#44 posted 07-30-2017 03:05 AM

I’m not totally sure they will take it back will post more Monday

-- Tony---- Reinholds,Pa.------ REMEMBER TO ALWAYS HAVE FUN

View Andybb's profile

Andybb

2236 posts in 1168 days


#45 posted 08-02-2017 09:11 PM

Well?? What happened? Did you exchange it?

-- Andy - Seattle USA

View GR8HUNTER's profile (online now)

GR8HUNTER

6708 posts in 1277 days


#46 posted 08-02-2017 09:40 PM

the problem with it was several little things …1-pulleys not lined up right 2- belt to tight 3- not enough resistance ….all these problems made the amps go way to high in turn shut it down …if I remember correct TungOil said about amps being to high
THANKS TO ALL for the help :<))

-- Tony---- Reinholds,Pa.------ REMEMBER TO ALWAYS HAVE FUN

Have your say...

You must be signed in to reply.

DISCLAIMER: Any posts on LJ are posted by individuals acting in their own right and do not necessarily reflect the views of LJ. LJ will not be held liable for the actions of any user.

Latest Projects | Latest Blog Entries | Latest Forum Topics

HomeRefurbers.com