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All Replies on How would you repair this tote? (esp Don W.)

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View Ocelot's profile

How would you repair this tote? (esp Don W.)

by Ocelot
posted 07-24-2017 08:45 PM


32 replies so far

View tyvekboy's profile

tyvekboy

1941 posts in 3571 days


#1 posted 07-24-2017 09:00 PM

How about just remaking a new one?

-- Tyvekboy -- Marietta, GA ………….. one can never be too organized

View Ocelot's profile

Ocelot

2370 posts in 3196 days


#2 posted 07-24-2017 09:01 PM


How about just remaking a new one?

- tyvekboy

I like to retain the 100-year-old rosewood…. to keep the tool as original as possible.

View tyvekboy's profile

tyvekboy

1941 posts in 3571 days


#3 posted 07-24-2017 09:07 PM

Oh. Getting the nails out might be a problem. If you can pry the pieces apart you might be able to pound the nails out enough to grip the heads and pull them out. Then try and glue back to gather again. Use the bold that holds in to the plane as a clamp.

-- Tyvekboy -- Marietta, GA ………….. one can never be too organized

View Loren's profile

Loren

10477 posts in 4206 days


#4 posted 07-24-2017 09:08 PM

I think if I were undertaking it I’d accept
that I was going to do some more damage,
pry the broken part off and tap the nails
out from the pointy side. Hopefully they
are short.

Once the nails are out… well, that’s rosewood
I think and it doesn’t glue well because of
oils in the wood. You’ll have to soak the
glue surfaces in acetone. Brushing the solvent
on may be adequate. I know this is needed
to glue with PVA but with epoxy it may not
be needed.

Considering after removal and pounding the
nails out there may be substantial gaps that
prevent a good bond with PVA, I would use
an epoxy.

Good luck. If it’s any consolation, I have a
few planes with that part broken off and
they work fine. It’s the weakest point in
a Bailey bench plane by far.

View Ocelot's profile

Ocelot

2370 posts in 3196 days


#5 posted 07-24-2017 09:20 PM

Thanks for your comments Loren,

I appreciate you taking the time to consider my problem.

I’d rather not try to pry it, since that would bugger up the joint. I’d save that for a last resort.

Yeah, I have others without a horn. This is the first one with a broken horn that I actually have the part that broke off, so I like to fix it if I can.

Strange what you say about gluing Rosewood. I’ve used Titebond 3 for other plane knobs and totes and none have failed yet, but maybe I just haven’t used them enough.

View TravisH's profile

TravisH

692 posts in 2493 days


#6 posted 07-24-2017 09:37 PM

I fixed one using Titebond III the first time. It lasted about a 1.5 then separated at the glue line. The glue pretty much flaked off at that point.

I ended up doing as Loren described. I cleaned it up good with a wire brush first wiped down good with some acetone then wire brushed it again. I then put a temporary bolt/nut through it to get it all strait then drilled two small holes for dowels (mine was snapped at the bottom). I used Devcon 30 minute epoxy for glue and wood pin installation. Will see how it holds up as only been about 4 months now.

I have one with a broken horn and actually think I like the handle better as my thumb sets in a little groove across the bolt head compared to my other stanley handles.

View Smitty_Cabinetshop's profile

Smitty_Cabinetshop

16253 posts in 3176 days


#7 posted 07-24-2017 09:48 PM

Don W is the master. Fixed the tote on my #62 and it was in four pieces. Is the repair a solid one? If so, add some epoxy and sand smooth.

-- Don't anthropomorphize your handplanes. They hate it when you do that. -- OldTools Archive --

View Ocelot's profile

Ocelot

2370 posts in 3196 days


#8 posted 07-24-2017 09:53 PM

Maybe that would be best – just color the epoxy to sorta match.

I’m holding out for a repair that get’s the nails out though. No hurry to do anything. I’ve got 2 No 8’s! :-)

I’m still hoping Don W will comment.


Don W is the master. Fixed the tote on my #62 and it was in four pieces. Is the repair a solid one? If so, add some epoxy and sand smooth.

- Smitty_Cabinetshop


View builtinbkyn's profile

builtinbkyn

2977 posts in 1498 days


#9 posted 07-24-2017 09:58 PM

Use a small drill bit to drill alongside the nail. Remove the top piece and then snip the nail off. Then bond the two pieces back together and fill any voids.

-- Bill, Yo!......in Brooklyn & Steel City :)

View Kelly's profile

Kelly

2518 posts in 3502 days


#10 posted 07-25-2017 01:28 AM

You can jury rig your shop vac to suck the glue in.

To get a nail out, I’ve used a small pipe and ground very amateurish teeth on the end, then ran it over the nail. You may be able to limit to a quart inch deep, clamp with needle nose vice grips, then hammer the grips backwards (may need a second pair of grips).

When ready to put it all back together, I’d go with epoxy, since it’ll fill too.

View Lazyman's profile

Lazyman

4166 posts in 1945 days


#11 posted 07-25-2017 12:54 PM

Maybe you can use a small punch and push the nail a little further in so that you can just pull the top off the rest of the way. That would leave the nail head exposed enough that you can grab it and pull it out. Then, you could use the nail hole as a guild to drill a larger hole for a dowel to reinforce it when you glue it back on.

-- Nathan, TX -- Hire the lazy man. He may not do as much work but that's because he will find a better way.

View a1Jim's profile

a1Jim

117781 posts in 4135 days


#12 posted 07-25-2017 01:44 PM

Hi Paul

How about just remaking a new one?

- tyvekboy

I like to retain the 100-year-old rosewood…. to keep the tool as original as possible.
- Ocelot

I really don’t see the point of saving it, if it’s a matter of its collectible value collectors don’t want planes with broken or patched totes anyway.as a user, a new tote is much more reliable.
Since you have saved other totes I’m guessing you’re going to repair this one some how.Loren’s suggestion seems like the way to go to minimize more damage if done carefully. the only other way to remove nails I can think of is to use one of these hollow drill saws that are typically used to remove broken screws.

http://www.oahurealty.net/blog/remove-broken-wood-screws.html

View Ocelot's profile

Ocelot

2370 posts in 3196 days


#13 posted 07-25-2017 01:52 PM


Hi Paul

I really don t see the point of saving it, if it s a matter of its collectible value collectors don t want planes with broken or patched totes anyway.

- a1Jim

Well, Jim. I’m the collector, and I like the old repaired rosewood! :-) I’m never going to sell it. I don’t care how many dollars I could exchange it for.

-Paul

View a1Jim's profile

a1Jim

117781 posts in 4135 days


#14 posted 07-25-2017 02:03 PM

I guess everyone has their own Idea about preservation, I hope it works out what ever you do Paul.

View putty's profile

putty

1290 posts in 2164 days


#15 posted 07-25-2017 02:05 PM

Just get a donor plane and swap it out

-- Putty

View Ocelot's profile

Ocelot

2370 posts in 3196 days


#16 posted 07-25-2017 02:18 PM

You are right, Jim. Everyone has their own sentiments. This is not a tool for business. It’s a hobby. It’s not practical to care about rosewood that can no longer be shipped across national boarders as of January, but for now, it means something to me to keep the parts of this old tool together – while making it usable.

I can certainly appreciate the practical view also.

I think I’ve collected some ideas here, even if Don W., has yet to comment. :-)

Lazyman and Kelly gave some good suggestions that I have not yet acknowledged.

-Paul

View HorizontalMike's profile

HorizontalMike

7803 posts in 3472 days


#17 posted 07-25-2017 03:13 PM

I remake my totes and knobs with Honduras Ridgewood from WC. I save the old ones for repair when I can, have many that the old East India Rosewood is in fine shape.

That said, finding “doner” planes is unavoidable if you are serious about collecting. My 2-cents worth…

-- HorizontalMike -- "Woodpeckers understand..."

View msinc's profile

msinc

567 posts in 1061 days


#18 posted 07-25-2017 06:08 PM

I would suggest you consider stabilizing the broken part by not just gluing it back in place but separate the two and drill well into the handle and also into the piece that comes off so that you can insert a metal rod between the two. You will not see this added stiffener and only you will know it is there. If you are worried about weight use aluminum, but for this I would just cut the head off a 16 penny nail, cut it to the length you need {longer is more stable} and epoxy the whole thing back together. The more of these you can get in there the better. It looks like this is sort of what they were trying to do with the nails they used, but you can do it blind and use bigger nails that will work.
Glue is good, but when you have both pieces tied together with epoxied in steel you now have a repair that can and will take some stress beyond just what the glue itself will take. I hope I am clear enough trying to explain this, if not let me know I can post some photos.

View Don W's profile

Don W

19380 posts in 3125 days


#19 posted 07-25-2017 08:18 PM

that’s a tough one. Can you wiggle it? Is it glued and nailed or just nailed? If you can get it apart, then i’d color some epoxy and glue it back together. I might even leave the nails in for some added strength.

-- http://timetestedtools.net - Collecting is an investment in the past, and the future.

View fivecodys's profile

fivecodys

1530 posts in 2194 days


#20 posted 07-25-2017 10:10 PM

After looking at this photo for a while….... I’m thinking maybe wiggling it slowly like we did when we had a loose tooth all those years ago.
Maybe with a little patience, and some time, you can get it apart without tearing it up?
It’s quite a challenge. I watched my dad do stuff like that when I was a kid.
Let me know how it goes Paul. I’m real curious. :)

-- When you leave your shop for the night, make sure you can always count to 10.

View hotbyte's profile

hotbyte

1000 posts in 3533 days


#21 posted 07-26-2017 02:27 AM

Tie it to a door knob and slam the door ;-)


After looking at this photo for a while….... I m thinking maybe wiggling it slowly like we did when we had a loose tooth all those years ago.
Maybe with a little patience, and some time, you can get it apart without tearing it up?
It s quite a challenge. I watched my dad do stuff like that when I was a kid.
Let me know how it goes Paul. I m real curious. :)

- fivecodys


View Ocelot's profile

Ocelot

2370 posts in 3196 days


#22 posted 07-26-2017 02:32 AM

Will wiggle and report. :-)

View TheTurtleCarpenter's profile

TheTurtleCarpenter

1053 posts in 1624 days


#23 posted 07-26-2017 02:54 AM

Glue on a new Gold tooth and file to shape.!

-- "Tying shoelaces was way harder than learning to Whistle"

View Don W's profile

Don W

19380 posts in 3125 days


#24 posted 07-26-2017 11:27 AM

I think it’s great you want to fix this one. Leaving the history and adding a new story. It’s not always the easiest route, but it makes the hobby that much more interesting.

-- http://timetestedtools.net - Collecting is an investment in the past, and the future.

View Ocelot's profile

Ocelot

2370 posts in 3196 days


#25 posted 07-26-2017 01:36 PM

Thanks guys. I didn’t get a chance to look at it yesterday and probably won’t today either. Busy days and I still have no energy since I was in the hospital a week or so ago. I went to sleep at 7:30 yesterday.

View Ocelot's profile

Ocelot

2370 posts in 3196 days


#26 posted 07-26-2017 01:37 PM

Hey turtle. If you would send me one of those gold teeth, I’ll do it!

View Ocelot's profile

Ocelot

2370 posts in 3196 days


#27 posted 07-27-2017 02:46 AM

Yes, it wiggles.
Nails have cracked it some too.

View Don W's profile

Don W

19380 posts in 3125 days


#28 posted 07-27-2017 10:22 AM

I would keep working it loose. If the horn is to bad you can replace it. If not, epoxy it back.

Once the tip is off, run some CA glue in the crack in the back.

-- http://timetestedtools.net - Collecting is an investment in the past, and the future.

View Ocelot's profile

Ocelot

2370 posts in 3196 days


#29 posted 07-27-2017 02:26 PM

Thanks, Don. That’s what I’ll do. It’s a little thing, but I enjoy the challenge.

View Don W's profile

Don W

19380 posts in 3125 days


#30 posted 08-03-2017 11:22 PM

Howz it comin!

-- http://timetestedtools.net - Collecting is an investment in the past, and the future.

View Ocelot's profile

Ocelot

2370 posts in 3196 days


#31 posted 08-04-2017 02:28 PM

Thanks for asking Don. I haven’t had time or energy to get to the shop this week – even to piddle around.

View rodneywt1180b's profile

rodneywt1180b

185 posts in 944 days


#32 posted 08-05-2017 04:46 AM

It’s some pretty ugly damage but once you get it apart and the nails out I think you can repair it ok. Do you have another damaged tote you can take some wood from?

-- Rodney, Centralia, WA, USA www.etsy.com/shop/ASturdyStick

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