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Overlay is too big

by Amateurwoodwork
posted 07-17-2017 02:00 PM


26 replies so far

View waho6o9's profile (online now)

waho6o9

8598 posts in 2880 days


#1 posted 07-17-2017 02:12 PM

Are there any adjustments on the hinges?

Blum has a plethora of hinges that will work.

https://www.blum.com/us/en/01/#2

Are the hinges mounted on the face frame?

Welcome to LumberJocks Amateurwoodwork!

View Redoak49's profile

Redoak49

3844 posts in 2291 days


#2 posted 07-17-2017 02:58 PM

A picture would help us help you.

View Robert's profile

Robert

3317 posts in 1784 days


#3 posted 07-17-2017 03:10 PM

Gap where? Give us a pic.

-- Everything is a prototype thats why its one of a kind!!

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Bill Berklich

709 posts in 691 days


#4 posted 07-17-2017 04:24 PM

Use and “T” astragal molding.

-- Bill - Rochester MI

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Amateurwoodwork

7 posts in 617 days


#5 posted 07-17-2017 04:25 PM

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Amateurwoodwork

7 posts in 617 days


#6 posted 07-17-2017 04:28 PM

Sorrythe pictures are sideways. So you see the door closed, inside of open, and the from the side where the gap is. I do understand that it is common to have some space but I have almost a 1/2 inch and I’ve adjusted all that I can. My last solution, aside from rebuilding the doors, is to run trim that will partially cover the gap.

View bbasiaga's profile

bbasiaga

1243 posts in 2298 days


#7 posted 07-17-2017 04:31 PM

Can you just reset the hinges back by that 1/2”?

Brian

-- Part of engineering is to know when to put your calculator down and pick up your tools.

View DS's profile (online now)

DS

3089 posts in 2723 days


#8 posted 07-17-2017 04:37 PM

The usual remedy is to trim the doors on either side.
By fudging the hinges, you’ve created a situation where the geometry no longer works within specs.

I can see you’ve tried multiple hinge holes on the back of the door. Use the hole placement specified for the maximum overlay for that hinge and no more than that. The rest will need to be adjusted in the actual door size.

BTW, 5 hinges is probably overkill on this door. 3 or 4 hinges should work fine.

Tip: Test your hinge overlay geometry with a piece of scrap material until you get a good setup. (No one likes Swiss cheese cabinet doors)

-- "Hard work is not defined by the difficulty of the task as much as a person's desire to perform it.", DS251

View AlaskaGuy's profile

AlaskaGuy

5134 posts in 2612 days


#9 posted 07-17-2017 04:54 PM

What hinge and base plate did you use?

Did you set the base plates back 37mm from the front of the cabinet to the base plate screw holes?

How far from the edge of the door are your cup holes?

How about a close up picture of the hinge?

We are talking about the gap between the door and the cabinet in picture 3 of my pictures right?

-- Alaskan's for Global warming!

View Robert's profile

Robert

3317 posts in 1784 days


#10 posted 07-17-2017 10:11 PM

Don’t panic. You don’t need to rebuild or anything.

Most euro hinges are designed to screw into the shelf pin holes, which I believe are set back 37mm. This is where the problem is. All you have to do is reset the mounting plates to that distance.

BTW 3 hinges would have been fin for that door.

If you’re planning future cabs I recommend invest in a shelf pin drilling jig. This makes locating the hinges a snap.

-- Everything is a prototype thats why its one of a kind!!

View Loren's profile

Loren

10477 posts in 3951 days


#11 posted 07-17-2017 10:40 PM

I think perhaps the OP is using full-overlay hinges
installed in such a way that the door completely
overlaps the case by 1/4”. In order to do this
the 35mm holes have to be drilled in further
than normal from the door edge and the hinge
cranked forward to allow the door to clear the
case when opened. This would be causing the
large gap seen from the side when the door is closed.

Unfortunately full overlay hinges don’t actually
do a full-overlay. They are designed to have
about 3/32” of the case frame (edgeband)
exposed at the edge.

The solution I think in this instance is to use
a different type of hinge.

View AlaskaGuy's profile

AlaskaGuy

5134 posts in 2612 days


#12 posted 07-18-2017 07:57 PM

Bump…..

-- Alaskan's for Global warming!

View builtinbkyn's profile

builtinbkyn

2918 posts in 1243 days


#13 posted 07-18-2017 08:36 PM

If you’re talking about the gap between the back of the door and the edge of the casework when the door is closed, those hinges should have fore/aft adjustment on the piece that’s mounted to the cabinet. Adjusting it will pull the door closer to the case. Other than that, I’m not sure I understand the question.

-- Bill, Yo!......in Brooklyn & Steel City :)

View DS's profile (online now)

DS

3089 posts in 2723 days


#14 posted 07-18-2017 10:12 PM



I think perhaps the OP is using full-overlay hinges
installed in such a way that the door completely
overlaps the case by 1/4”. In order to do this
the 35mm holes have to be drilled in further
than normal from the door edge and the hinge
cranked forward to allow the door to clear the
case when opened. This would be causing the
large gap seen from the side when the door is closed.

Unfortunately full overlay hinges don t actually
do a full-overlay. They are designed to have
about 3/32” of the case frame (edgeband)
exposed at the edge.

The solution I think in this instance is to use
a different type of hinge.

- Loren


+1

This is what I see is happening.
If this is my cabinet, I am adjusting my door size for the maximum overlay spec of the hinge.

Do you really want the door sticking past the case end by 1/4”? (Even if you found a hinge that could make it?)

-- "Hard work is not defined by the difficulty of the task as much as a person's desire to perform it.", DS251

View DS's profile (online now)

DS

3089 posts in 2723 days


#15 posted 07-19-2017 04:00 PM

BTW, to fill all the mis-drilled holes along the one edge, I might put a long rabbit down that side and fill it in by gluing a solid wood strip to cover it.

-- "Hard work is not defined by the difficulty of the task as much as a person's desire to perform it.", DS251

View AlaskaGuy's profile

AlaskaGuy

5134 posts in 2612 days


#16 posted 07-19-2017 04:40 PM

-- Alaskan's for Global warming!

View Amateurwoodwork's profile

Amateurwoodwork

7 posts in 617 days


#17 posted 07-19-2017 08:39 PM

Thank you for all the advice. I used a plastic template to place the first set of holes but since the doors were wider than needed I moved the the template in about 1/4”. I put five hinges after seeing a webpage that read any doors greater than 80” needed five hinges. I have since taken the doors down and will fill the the holes and sand. My two kids that don’t leave me much time to get stuff done but I am still working on it and taking the advice. I will post again when I progress a little more.

View 000's profile

000

2859 posts in 1202 days


#18 posted 07-19-2017 08:50 PM

You don’t need to move holes to change the distance.
Hinges, typically, you buy either straight arm type, or cranked arm type.
Then you buy separate hinge mounting plates that come in different thicknesses.
You select the type hinge and mounting plate thickness that gives you the amount of overlay you want.

If you want help, you need to provide;

The opening size of the cabinet, (Interior width) (Not necessary but helpful)
The size of the door,
The amount of overlay you want on the hinge side of the opening.
The brand of hinges you are using.

With this information we can tell you how far in you need to drill your hinge holes from the edge and which hinge and mounting plate you need to use.

Also thickness of your door, it may require a thick door hinge if it is going to open more than 90*

View DS's profile (online now)

DS

3089 posts in 2723 days


#19 posted 07-19-2017 08:52 PM

The Blum spec is something like 25 lbs per pair, so five hinges would be appropriate if your door weighs up to 67 lbs

More like your door is in the 30 lbs range I expect.

-- "Hard work is not defined by the difficulty of the task as much as a person's desire to perform it.", DS251

View Amateurwoodwork's profile

Amateurwoodwork

7 posts in 617 days


#20 posted 07-19-2017 11:46 PM

48 3/8” cabinet width
46 7/8” interior width
24 3/8” each door width
7/8” inch is thickness of the door

I was going for a 1/4” overlay with an 1/8” space in between each door for opening.

The doors probably weigh about 30lbs each. I used redwood to frame and pine plywood laying on back.

The hinges are the 10 pack from homedepot. Don’t have package anymore but I did buy for frameless cabinets. I do wish door could open past 90 but right now its not opening even that wide.

View Loren's profile

Loren

10477 posts in 3951 days


#21 posted 07-20-2017 12:03 AM

This illustrates what 35mm cup hinges will
do. They won’t do more overlay than pictured
and work properly. All cabinet sides are
assumed to be 3/4” thick with European
hardware systems.

View 000's profile

000

2859 posts in 1202 days


#22 posted 07-20-2017 01:44 AM


48 3/8” cabinet width
46 7/8” interior width
24 3/8” each door width
7/8” inch is thickness of the door

I was going for a 1/4” overlay with an 1/8” space in between each door for opening.

The doors probably weigh about 30lbs each. I used redwood to frame and pine plywood laying on back.

The hinges are the 10 pack from homedepot. Don t have package anymore but I did buy for frameless cabinets. I do wish door could open past 90 but right now its not opening even that wide.

- Amateurwoodwork

Is it possible to cut your doors down to 23 5/8” ?
Then you can use the 1/4” overlay hinges that you have..

Otherwise your going to have to go with different hinges.
There are a few different brands.
You would have to go with 1” overlay set up.
I found this one from Blum, it’s the only one I found that works with the 7/8” thick door
and lets you open it 110 degrees.

I did find a 39c wrap around hinge that would be cheaper and give you the 1” overlay but it would probably only open 90 deg because of the door thickness.

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Amateurwoodwork

7 posts in 617 days


#23 posted 07-20-2017 03:59 AM

I unfortunately can’t cut them more narrow. I lack the equipment to make an accurate cut. I will look at those hinges be hope that all I need.

View Amateurwoodwork's profile

Amateurwoodwork

7 posts in 617 days


#24 posted 07-20-2017 04:23 AM

I am looking at this for my hinges
https://www.cabinetparts.com/p/blum-hinges-european-cabinet-hinges-BH71B3550
Plates are sold separately? Lol. Way more than I hoped but it will make a difference with the doors I’m thinking I will give them a try. I only need 6 instead of 10 which would help ease the pain.

View AlaskaGuy's profile

AlaskaGuy

5134 posts in 2612 days


#25 posted 07-20-2017 06:32 AM

The base plates are sold separately so you can pick the overlay you want. The thickness of the base plate determines the amount of overlay. The thicker the base plate the smaller the overlay.

I have used that same hinge before but it an 120 degree opening and on 3/4 stock. For those hinges to work as advertised doors would have to be 24 to 24 1/16th each depending on what you allow for the gap between the double doors. For double doors on a frameless cabinet with a full overlay I measure the width of the cabinet, minus 1/4 inch and divide that number by 2.

Your cabinet 48 3/8th minus 1/4 = 48 1/8 48 1/8 divided by 2= 24 1/16th that’s how do mine. I like almost no gap at all so I take nothing off for door gap.

That being said. The 7/8 thickness of you doors with that hinge will be a bit of problem if the doors fit close to the cabinet box like you want. If I recall when you open the doors fully the corner of the door may hit the edge of the cabinet box before it’s fully open (because of the extra thickness). It’s been a while since I did a frameless cabinet so if I stated the door thickness problem wrong I’m sure someone will correct me.


I am looking at this for my hinges
https://www.cabinetparts.com/p/blum-hinges-european-cabinet-hinges-BH71B3550
Plates are sold separately? Lol. Way more than I hoped but it will make a difference with the doors I m thinking I will give them a try. I only need 6 instead of 10 which would help ease the pain.

- Amateurwoodwork


-- Alaskan's for Global warming!

View 000's profile

000

2859 posts in 1202 days


#26 posted 07-20-2017 01:39 PM

The hinge you selected will only give you 3/4” overlay and the doors will still hit in the middle.

If you can’t cut the doors down you will have to use a hinge that will give you 1” overlay
Below are 2 more that will work, but might not allow the door to open past 90

This hinge will give you the 1” overlay you need if your not going to cut your doors down.
(you will have to file off the little tabs on the back and your door won’t open past 90)
https://www.cabinetparts.com/p/blum-hinges-european-cabinet-hinges-BH39C355B16

This hinge and mounting plate will also give you the 1” overlay you need.
https://www.cabinetparts.com/p/blum-hinges-european-cabinet-hinges-BH333600
https://www.cabinetparts.com/p/blum-hinges-european-cabinet-hinges-BH130111002

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