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View doubleG469's profile

Thoughts as to this species???

by doubleG469
posted 07-12-2017 10:35 PM


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View DS's profile

DS

3320 posts in 2954 days


#1 posted 07-12-2017 10:40 PM

That thar’ is a dead-ringer for Alder!

-- "Hard work is not defined by the difficulty of the task as much as a person's desire to perform it.", DS251

View Desert_Woodworker's profile

Desert_Woodworker

1929 posts in 1748 days


#2 posted 07-12-2017 10:50 PM

DS I tend to agree with you-

-- Desert_Woodworker

View LiveEdge's profile

LiveEdge

600 posts in 2154 days


#3 posted 07-12-2017 11:40 PM

It does look like alder, but there is no way alder could be considered “very dense”....

View Ripper70's profile

Ripper70

1339 posts in 1443 days


#4 posted 07-12-2017 11:49 PM

Beech?

-- "You know, I'm such a great driver, it's incomprehensible that they took my license away." --Vince Ricardo

View 000's profile

000

2859 posts in 1433 days


#5 posted 07-12-2017 11:58 PM

soft maple

View doubleG469's profile

doubleG469

853 posts in 978 days


#6 posted 07-13-2017 12:42 AM

Hmm, I see you guys are running the list too. If its maple someone wasted a ton of it on pallet runners.

-- I refuse to edit the photo orientation for this website any longer. It’s an issue they should address and correct. Gary, Texas

View Matt Rogers's profile

Matt Rogers

110 posts in 2504 days


#7 posted 07-13-2017 12:49 AM

Why not hard maple? That would be my guess – very dense as a rule, light colored, same grain patterns.

-- Matt Rogers, http://www.cleanairwoodworks.com and http://www.cleanairyurts.com

View Desert_Woodworker's profile

Desert_Woodworker

1929 posts in 1748 days


#8 posted 07-13-2017 12:59 AM

Beech NO
Soft maple NO J-bay rarely do I disagree with you- but at first I thought soft maple- then I have been using Alder for the last 20 yrs in Phoenix, but I wasn’t sure. DS replied, Alder; check out his profile; the dude has experience… Sorry J I’m going with DS and my 20 years using this stuff.
Will there be a final answer? I hope so……..
Att is a pic from my wood bin.

-- Desert_Woodworker

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Desert_Woodworker

1929 posts in 1748 days


#9 posted 07-13-2017 01:04 AM



Hmm, I see you guys are running the list too. If its maple someone wasted a ton of it on pallet runners.

- doubleG469


You cheated! You didn’t say pallet wood- and now J Bay will be wrong
ALDER

-- Desert_Woodworker

View firefighterontheside's profile

firefighterontheside

20624 posts in 2390 days


#10 posted 07-13-2017 01:12 AM

Could also be birch.

-- Bill M. "People change, walnut doesn't" by Gene.

View doubleG469's profile

doubleG469

853 posts in 978 days


#11 posted 07-13-2017 01:36 AM

-- I refuse to edit the photo orientation for this website any longer. It’s an issue they should address and correct. Gary, Texas

View Aj2's profile

Aj2

2528 posts in 2332 days


#12 posted 07-13-2017 02:17 AM

Hard maple to me.

-- Aj

View Tony_S's profile

Tony_S

1027 posts in 3617 days


#13 posted 07-13-2017 10:24 AM



soft maple

- jbay

x2

-- It is the mark of an educated mind to be able to entertain a thought without accepting it. Aristotle

View WDHLT15's profile

WDHLT15

1819 posts in 3010 days


#14 posted 07-13-2017 12:13 PM

It is maple, most likely hard maple like sugar maple or rock maple.

-- Danny Located in Perry, GA. Forester. Wood-Mizer LT40HD35 Sawmill. Nyle L53 Dehumidification Kiln. hamsleyhardwood.com

View doubleG469's profile

doubleG469

853 posts in 978 days


#15 posted 07-13-2017 12:54 PM

Looks like I am going to have to take a sample to local guys and see if anyone can be more definitive. I am trying to decide if it’s acceptable for cutting boards? or if I need to keep it to the side for other projects.

-- I refuse to edit the photo orientation for this website any longer. It’s an issue they should address and correct. Gary, Texas

View ChefHDAN's profile

ChefHDAN

1470 posts in 3383 days


#16 posted 07-13-2017 12:56 PM

Any idea of the origin of the pallet? I had a couple of commercial dishwashers (from Canada) shipped to me and the skids were all white oak, including the 5”x5” runners

-- I've decided 1 mistake is really 2 opportunities to learn.. learn how to fix it... and learn how to not repeat it

View doubleG469's profile

doubleG469

853 posts in 978 days


#17 posted 07-13-2017 12:59 PM



Any idea of the origin of the pallet? I had a couple of commercial dishwashers (from Canada) shipped to me and the skids were all white oak, including the 5”x5” runners

- ChefHDAN


No clue, they were huge. Each were minimum 8 ft with 3 runners per and boards of the same material. and covered in 3/4” MDF. (which is why I grabbed them originally to use the mdf for some equipment stands. Surprise Surprise! I am heading down stairs in a bit to see if the last one is still there.

-- I refuse to edit the photo orientation for this website any longer. It’s an issue they should address and correct. Gary, Texas

View firefighterontheside's profile

firefighterontheside

20624 posts in 2390 days


#18 posted 07-13-2017 01:07 PM

No matter the species, I wouldn’t use any pallet wood for cutting boards. You don’t know where that wood has been or what was put on it or has gotten on it.

-- Bill M. "People change, walnut doesn't" by Gene.

View doubleG469's profile

doubleG469

853 posts in 978 days


#19 posted 07-13-2017 01:44 PM



No matter the species, I wouldn t use any pallet wood for cutting boards. You don t know where that wood has been or what was put on it or has gotten on it.

- firefighterontheside

Good point.

-- I refuse to edit the photo orientation for this website any longer. It’s an issue they should address and correct. Gary, Texas

View LiveEdge's profile

LiveEdge

600 posts in 2154 days


#20 posted 07-13-2017 04:36 PM

I said that alder couldn’t be considered dense, but it could appear so if it were wet. Pallet wood might perhaps be either green or soaked which might lead to some weight. To me, the top photo has little horizontal crack or ray lines that are very consistent with alder. I’ve worked with a fair amount of alder in my life and I’m not sure whether maples have these small cracks.

View DS's profile

DS

3320 posts in 2954 days


#21 posted 07-13-2017 05:00 PM

I had just ordered 400bf of Alder not ten minutes before this post came up. I’m really sure it’s Alder.

You wouldn’t consider it to be a dense wood for sure, but if it is green pallet wood, it could be heavier, I suppose.

Hard Maple is either white, or very pale yellow. Birch usually has white and red sap/heart wood. Beech is more Salmon color and has rays that are missing from this image.

I can walk out to my wood pile and see boards just like his picture and they are ALDER.
Red Alder, to be specific, from the Pacific North West coast of Oregon and Washington State.

Its history of pallet wood aside, Alder is commonly used for breadboards as is Maple.

As long as it wasn’t contaminated by whatever leaking industrial waste it was carrying in its previous life, it should be okay.

-- "Hard work is not defined by the difficulty of the task as much as a person's desire to perform it.", DS251

View tomsteve's profile

tomsteve

973 posts in 1753 days


#22 posted 07-13-2017 06:37 PM



Hmm, I see you guys are running the list too. If its maple someone wasted a ton of it on pallet runners.

- doubleG469

actually, maple is used in pallets often. usually cut from lower grade logs. i saw maple, oak,ash, birch,poplar, and even cherry go through the pallet mill i worked at years ago.

View Nubsnstubs's profile

Nubsnstubs

1625 posts in 2264 days


#23 posted 07-14-2017 03:18 AM


I said that alder couldn t be considered dense, but it could appear so if it were wet. Pallet wood might perhaps be either green or soaked which might lead to some weight. To me, the top photo has little horizontal crack or ray lines that are very consistent with alder.. I ve worked with a fair amount of alder in my life and I m not sure whether maples have these small cracks.

- LiveEdge

Nailed it. No question…...... Jerry (in Tucson)

-- Jerry (in Tucson) www.woodturnerstools.com

View TheFridge's profile

TheFridge

10859 posts in 2020 days


#24 posted 07-14-2017 03:28 AM

A Maple

-- Shooting down the walls of heartache. Bang bang. I am. The warrior.

View Desert_Woodworker's profile

Desert_Woodworker

1929 posts in 1748 days


#25 posted 07-14-2017 04:21 AM

DS, Nubs and myself say Alder- So far we have 3 Alder, based on our knowledgeable expertise. Compared other wood specie without support…

-- Desert_Woodworker

View AlaskaGuy's profile

AlaskaGuy

5414 posts in 2843 days


#26 posted 07-14-2017 04:37 AM


DS, Nubs and myself say Alder- So far we have 3 Alder, based on our knowledgeable expertise. Compared other wood specie without support…

- Desert_Woodworker


That not proof it’s alder. It just 3 of you think it alder. Pictures on the internet can be deceiving. How can alder be very dense?

-- Alaskan's for Global warming!

View Desert_Woodworker's profile

Desert_Woodworker

1929 posts in 1748 days


#27 posted 07-14-2017 04:54 AM

AL- My decision was based on DS’s post and reading his background and his second post, my experience for 20 years using this stuff and the picture that was originally posted. ALDER

-- Desert_Woodworker

View AlaskaGuy's profile

AlaskaGuy

5414 posts in 2843 days


#28 posted 07-14-2017 05:05 AM

I have seen a lot of oak that as cracks like that from what I think is drying it to fast.

This is a piece of alder from my shop.

This is the OP wood.

I can’t say for sure so I’m no saying.

-- Alaskan's for Global warming!

View Desert_Woodworker's profile

Desert_Woodworker

1929 posts in 1748 days


#29 posted 07-14-2017 05:41 AM

Many thanks for your efforts and the others, for I would honestly like to know.
But will we get a final honest answer? I hope so.
ps look to your lower right in the photo – to me it is a match. Please join us 3 to make it 4

-- Desert_Woodworker

View WDHLT15's profile

WDHLT15

1819 posts in 3010 days


#30 posted 07-14-2017 12:07 PM

I still believe that it is maple. In this link there are some comparison pics of alder and maple.

http://www.woodcraftind.com/downloads/WoodcraftIndustries-Wood-Characteristics.pdf

-- Danny Located in Perry, GA. Forester. Wood-Mizer LT40HD35 Sawmill. Nyle L53 Dehumidification Kiln. hamsleyhardwood.com

View doubleG469's profile

doubleG469

853 posts in 978 days


#31 posted 07-14-2017 12:35 PM

Ok, I will take a piece by the local wood guys and see what they think it is. Unfortunately I think I will run into the same issue there with everyone having an opinion. In the woodcraft book I think it most resembles the grain patterns of the soft maple. Alaskaguy the alder you have looks more orange-ish while the boards I have after planing look more grey to beige in hue.

I thank you all for the input and as a consolation prize I will provide you each with a 2×2x.25” piece for your amusement. Just send me your address and $39.95 to cover shipping and handling…. (that’s a joke right there folks)

-- I refuse to edit the photo orientation for this website any longer. It’s an issue they should address and correct. Gary, Texas

View bondogaposis's profile

bondogaposis

5551 posts in 2885 days


#32 posted 07-14-2017 12:48 PM

Looks like maple to me, and based on the statement that it is very dense, rules out alder.

-- Bondo Gaposis

View Smitty_Cabinetshop's profile

Smitty_Cabinetshop

16234 posts in 3152 days


#33 posted 07-14-2017 12:51 PM

Regardless what it actually is, I vote “not Alder.”

-- Don't anthropomorphize your handplanes. They hate it when you do that. -- OldTools Archive --

View 000's profile

000

2859 posts in 1433 days


#34 posted 07-14-2017 01:36 PM



Ok, I will take a piece by the local wood guys and see what they think it is. Unfortunately I think I will run into the same issue there with everyone having an opinion. In the woodcraft book I think it most resembles the grain patterns of the soft maple. Alaskaguy the alder you have looks more orange-ish while the boards I have after planing look more grey to beige in hue.

I thank you all for the input and as a consolation prize I will provide you each with a 2×2x.25” piece for your amusement. Just send me your address and $39.95 to cover shipping and handling…. (that s a joke right there folks)

- doubleG469

Seeing it and holding it, anybody with wood experience, will be able to tell you that it’s maple.
Here are 2 pieces from my shop, see if you can tell the difference.

I still think it’s maple, whether it’s soft or hard I’m thinking by the closeness of the end grain rings it could be hard.

View doubleG469's profile

doubleG469

853 posts in 978 days


#35 posted 07-14-2017 01:43 PM



Seeing it and holding it, anybody with wood experience, will be able to tell you that it s maple.
Here are 2 pieces from my shop, see if you can tell the difference.

I still think it s maple, whether it s soft or hard I m thinking by the closeness of the end grain rings it could be hard.

- jbay

I am by far a “wood expert” and just started this hobby, but by your photo I’d say it more to the lower. But again it’s like being at the eye doc and him asking number 1 or number 2 which is better…

-- I refuse to edit the photo orientation for this website any longer. It’s an issue they should address and correct. Gary, Texas

View 000's profile

000

2859 posts in 1433 days


#36 posted 07-14-2017 01:56 PM

What I meant was that taking it to some of your local guys,
“seeing it and holding it” they should be able to determine it without just opinion guesses.

(unless you live in Northern Nevada) LOL

View DS's profile

DS

3320 posts in 2954 days


#37 posted 07-14-2017 02:44 PM


Seeing it and holding it, anybody with wood experience, will be able to tell you that it s maple.

- jbay

In all fairness, it IS difficult to tell from just a photo. I can see the point of view that it could be Maple.
For me, the color is off, but that could be more to do with photography than wood species.

Alder is NOT considered a dense wood. With the right lighting, could this be a piece of Maple looking like Alder? Perhaps.

Here is Alder in the shop here;

-- "Hard work is not defined by the difficulty of the task as much as a person's desire to perform it.", DS251

View Underdog's profile

Underdog

1406 posts in 2569 days


#38 posted 07-14-2017 04:02 PM

Dang sure looks like alder to me too. The giveaway are the non-grain lines running along the grain, and the light color.

But Alder isn’t “dense” by any stretch of the imagination. It’s an extremely soft wood that you can dent with your fingernail- kinda like a soft pine it’s so soft. So if it is indeed Alder, then it’s gotta be soaking wet…

If you rip it with a dull blade, it’ll have the “fuzzies” along the cut, and if you cross cut it, there will be tearout, just like with soft pine.

-- Jim, Georgia, USA

View AlaskaGuy's profile

AlaskaGuy

5414 posts in 2843 days


#39 posted 07-14-2017 05:32 PM

Photos of wood on the internet.

I have 3 computers in my home. I can take the same photo and view it on each computer and each one will cast a different hue to the wood. In my picture the hue different that my eye see it. In real life it much lighter than in the picture.

-- Alaskan's for Global warming!

View Desert_Woodworker's profile

Desert_Woodworker

1929 posts in 1748 days


#40 posted 07-14-2017 06:26 PM

AK and UnderDog come on and join us for ALDER- there are only 3 for Alder, out of 39 posts and 499 views. Wouldn’t you like to be one of 4 or 5 who got it correct? If I am wrong I will apploogize to J-Bay…
FYI http://northwesthardwoods.com/products/pallet-stock/

-- Desert_Woodworker

View LiveEdge's profile

LiveEdge

600 posts in 2154 days


#41 posted 07-14-2017 06:52 PM

For those who are hung up on “dense”, the issue is that is a subjective word without an actual weight. It will feel dense to someone who works with balsa all the time. If will feel light if you’ve been working with exotics like ipe. As mentioned, moisture content also matters.

Can you dent it with your fingernail? If so, it is NOT maple. Some alder is that soft, but depends on the tree it came from. So if it does NOT dent, it could be either.

If you know it is dry, then weighing it will likely be helpful. According to wood database, alder is 28lbs. per cubic foot while hard maple is 44lbs. That’s a large enough difference that you could probably decide with a scale. BUT, you would need to know the moisture content.

Are there any knots in parts you didn’t photograph? Alder knots, to my eye, are fairly recognizable. Small ones will be tight while larger will often be partially or completely removed.

I’m going to take a picture of some alder in my woodshop when I get home to demonstrate those small crack lines. If someone would do that with a piece of maple they have, then I’ll relent a little. If nobody can show a maple with those lines, then I think it’s nailed.

View 000's profile

000

2859 posts in 1433 days


#42 posted 07-14-2017 07:00 PM



AK and UnderDog come on and join us for ALDER- there are only 3 for Alder, out of 39 posts and 499 views. Wouldn t you like to be one of 4 or 5 who got it correct? If I am wrong I will apploogize to J-Bay...
FYI http://northwesthardwoods.com/products/pallet-stock/

- Desert_Woodworker

Doesn’t matter either way, maple or alder no apology necessary.
I believe we are all only guessing for fun, To hard to tell from computer pics anyway,

View Underdog's profile

Underdog

1406 posts in 2569 days


#43 posted 07-14-2017 07:09 PM

I don’t remember Maple having those lines either…

Thing is, I have run a molder for years and years. I’ve had, quite literally, MILES and MILES of Maple go through my hands… AD NAUSEUM. Mind numbing beyond belief!

The up side is that I think I can recognize maple when I have it in my hands now….

If the OP will stick a fingernail in his sample and let us know if it’s fairly soft, then I think we can rest assured it’s Alder.

If you want, I can walk out to the shop and pick up several pieces of each, and post a picture up here…

-- Jim, Georgia, USA

View Underdog's profile

Underdog

1406 posts in 2569 days


#44 posted 07-14-2017 07:36 PM

Alder has narrower and straighter lines. It’s also more brown than red. Softer more lightweight wood.
Alder:

Maple has some wandery fat, wormy looking lines, and is more a reddish color. Harder and heavier than Alder.
Maple:

*EDIT*
I notice that the grain lines in maple are more sharply defined as well. Looking at the Alder those lines are more diffuse and shaded…

-- Jim, Georgia, USA

View LiveEdge's profile

LiveEdge

600 posts in 2154 days


#45 posted 07-14-2017 07:38 PM


Thing is, I have run a molder for years and years. I ve had, quite literally, MILES and MILES of Maple go through my hands… AD NAUSEUM. Mind numbing beyond belief!

The up side is that I think I can recognize maple when I have it in my hands now….

The only potential issue is there is more than one type of maple. Here in Oregon I only see Bigleaf Maple and so my personal experience will be less relevant to whatever might show up in Texas.

I still think you are right thought… ;)

View Underdog's profile

Underdog

1406 posts in 2569 days


#46 posted 07-14-2017 08:58 PM

Yep. Different species of course will look different.
But not fundamentally different like Alder and Maple.

-- Jim, Georgia, USA

View Tony_S's profile

Tony_S

1027 posts in 3617 days


#47 posted 07-14-2017 11:18 PM


If someone would do that with a piece of maple they have, then I ll relent a little. If nobody can show a maple with those lines, then I think it s nailed.
- LiveEdge

This is a piece of soft maple I grabbed out of the scrap bin

Another(different) piece

Alder out of the scrap bin.

Another

Ive seen the streaks in soft maple longer than these examples, these are a bit shorter than I would typically see(was just two scraps I picked up), but not much. I buy in the neighborhood of 5 mfbm/month. It’s typically from the same mill, not always.
I’ve also seen the longer streaks in the alder we buy, but it isn’t as common as the streaks in the soft maple I see.
What you see above is normal/average for the alder I see everyday, no, or very limited streaks. I buy about 1 mfbm/month of alder.

I have no idea the species of alder I bring in. ‘Pretty sure’ the Soft Maple is Silver.

I’m stubborn….I’m still sticking with soft maple ;)

Hope you find out for sure Gary


What I meant was that taking it to some of your local guys,
“seeing it and holding it” they should be able to determine it without just opinion guesses.
- jbay

Yep

I believe we are all only guessing for fun, To hard to tell from computer pics anyway,
- jbay

Another yep….

-- It is the mark of an educated mind to be able to entertain a thought without accepting it. Aristotle

View doubleG469's profile

doubleG469

853 posts in 978 days


#48 posted 07-14-2017 11:30 PM

And the answer is, NO fingernail will NOT dent this wood.

-- I refuse to edit the photo orientation for this website any longer. It’s an issue they should address and correct. Gary, Texas

View doubleG469's profile

doubleG469

853 posts in 978 days


#49 posted 07-14-2017 11:34 PM

I am going back to Rockler timorrow to probably buy their hplv sprauer that’s on sale for $149 (by the way anu experience with that machine?) I will see if anyone is familiar with it.

Tony your pics og maple are the closest ive seen to it yet. I am going out on a limb and call it for Maple but will get a definitive answer.

-- I refuse to edit the photo orientation for this website any longer. It’s an issue they should address and correct. Gary, Texas

View rodneywt1180b's profile

rodneywt1180b

185 posts in 920 days


#50 posted 07-15-2017 12:40 AM

Possibly ash. Dense, almost oak-like feel. The ash here is ring porous with a distinct grain but is finer than oak. Is it ring porous? I can’t tell for sure from the pictures, though it looks possible.
Alder isn’t all that dense. Medium weight, similar to soft maple in density (at least to me) though the grain does look similar to alder.

I live around the corner from a fairly large saw mill that processes alder and maple pretty much exclusively. The good stuff gets sawn into lumber, the rest becomes pallets. They have pallets of pre-cut pallet runners sitting outside. It’s very possible to get alder and maple pallet wood.

-- Rodney, Centralia, WA, USA www.etsy.com/shop/ASturdyStick

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