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View bshaff's profile

sup panel hook up

by bshaff
posted 07-12-2017 03:39 PM


24 replies so far

View SignWave's profile

SignWave

472 posts in 3334 days


#1 posted 07-12-2017 04:09 PM

I’m not completely sure I understand what you’re asking, but I will say that you must remove the green screw on the subpanel that joins the neutral and ground bus. The only place where the ground is connected to the neutral is at the main panel where the service enters the building.

-- Barry, http://BarrysWorkshop.com/

View WhyMe's profile

WhyMe

1131 posts in 1860 days


#2 posted 07-12-2017 04:19 PM

In a subpanel the neutral is isolated from the ground. Most panel boxes require the addition of a grounding bar when the installed bar is isolated for the neutrals. The equipment grounds and also the electrode ground conductor are then connected to the new ground bar. For a detached structure you will need two ground rods connected via one #6 bare copper conductor with the two rods no closer than 6ft to each other along the electrode conductor. The ground in the 6-3UF is the equipment ground and connects panel to panel, this is for fault current for tripping the breaker. The grounding electrodes (rods) are for lighting strikes. Ground and neutral are only bonded at the first disconnection means.

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WhyMe

1131 posts in 1860 days


#3 posted 07-12-2017 05:49 PM

To add, if the subpanel is going to have more than 6 breakers there needs to be a main disconnect at the detached garage. The simplest thing is to use a main breaker panel, not a main lug panel.

View bshaff's profile

bshaff

20 posts in 1094 days


#4 posted 07-12-2017 06:34 PM

Sounds good I have all of what was said except I have only 1 ground rod in the ground.

I have a separate disconnect in the box also.

The green screw I am talking about is not connecting the tow buss bars. I have a separate bar going from one to the other for that and I know that has to be removed to make them separate.

The green screw in the box is on the ground side of the box about half way down and it has a connecting pin in it. I think it needs to be connected to the ground buss in order that the metal box housing is grounded to the ground buss.

Is that correct.

-- Barry

View WhyMe's profile

WhyMe

1131 posts in 1860 days


#5 posted 07-12-2017 09:36 PM

The green screw is removed to isolate the existing bar(s) from the case. You need to add a ground bar kit which is screwed directly to the case. The two bars you are referring to are on plastic standoffs and are connected to each other by a metal strap. That strap is not intended to be removed by the manufacturer in order to use one bar for a ground bar, that’s why they sell ground bar kits.

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bshaff

20 posts in 1094 days


#6 posted 07-13-2017 04:57 PM

here is a picture of the finished box. You can see separate buss bars. also 6-3 wire with ground coming in the top of box. also a green screw on right side with connection only to ground bar. this is to just ground the box.

I believe this is correct.

-- Barry

View WhyMe's profile

WhyMe

1131 posts in 1860 days


#7 posted 07-13-2017 05:11 PM

Functionally it is okay, but technical wrong. By removing the connection bar between the two neutral bars you have modified the box and it is no longer to UL specs as designed by the manufacturer. As I have said above you are to use a ground bar kit as instructed by the manufacturer. Once you modify electrical equipment outside of what’s specified by the manufacturer it is no longer NEC compliant.

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bshaff

20 posts in 1094 days


#8 posted 07-13-2017 05:26 PM

so can I use one of the neutral bars as a ground bar as I have done or do I have to reattach the connection bar between them and install a separate ground bar. If I have to do that I dont think my wires will be long enough to get to it.

-- Barry

View Gilley23's profile

Gilley23

489 posts in 681 days


#9 posted 07-13-2017 05:58 PM

The box is bonded through the aluminum strap that ties the now ground bar to the can.

View Gilley23's profile

Gilley23

489 posts in 681 days


#10 posted 07-13-2017 05:59 PM

If it’s going to be inspected then you need to put the panel as it was when you unboxed it. If it’s not, then leave it alone….it functions perfectly ok and safe.


so can I use one of the neutral bars as a ground bar as I have done or do I have to reattach the connection bar between them and install a separate ground bar. If I have to do that I dont think my wires will be long enough to get to it.

- bshaff


View Redoak49's profile

Redoak49

3842 posts in 2288 days


#11 posted 07-13-2017 06:02 PM

I do not know if it is correct but really messy. I like it when wires all come down the sides and then bend 90 to go to the breaker. It makes it easier to make changes and find where wires go.

View WhyMe's profile

WhyMe

1131 posts in 1860 days


#12 posted 07-13-2017 06:43 PM

The white wires attached to the 2 pole breakers need to be marked/taped either red or black.

View bshaff's profile

bshaff

20 posts in 1094 days


#13 posted 07-13-2017 06:43 PM

so If it is inspected I need to reinstall the connection bar to the two side buss bars like it was originally.
Then can I leave it as is and have the right side as a ground because it is bonded to the can by the green srcew and clip into the bar or do I have to buy a separate ground bar and install it. Then put all the grounds into the new ground bar and no longer use the right side bar and also detach the green screw and clip.

-- Barry

View WhyMe's profile

WhyMe

1131 posts in 1860 days


#14 posted 07-13-2017 07:24 PM

To have it be correct, you need to reinstall the connection bar between the 2 buss bars, then remove the bonding clip from the right buss bar that bonds the buss bars to the case and add a new ground bar. The neutral buss bars need to be isolated from the case. Only the new ground bar is to be bonded to the case. The new ground buss bar does not come with insulated stand-offs and is directly screwed to the case.

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bshaff

20 posts in 1094 days


#15 posted 07-13-2017 07:40 PM

Thank you for the help. I will go and buy what I need and get it done.

-- Barry

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WhyMe

1131 posts in 1860 days


#16 posted 07-13-2017 07:52 PM

If you purchased the panel new there should have been an instruction sheet..

View jonah's profile

jonah

2036 posts in 3598 days


#17 posted 07-13-2017 08:26 PM

Subpanels usually come with a separate ground bar in the box that you install in exactly the manner described above. You shouldn’t have to buy one, though I suppose maybe it was just the brand of subpanel I got that had it.

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bshaff

20 posts in 1094 days


#18 posted 07-13-2017 11:32 PM

Here is the completed box. I trust this is done correctly. A little messy but correct.

-- Barry

View SignWave's profile

SignWave

472 posts in 3334 days


#19 posted 07-13-2017 11:51 PM

Kudos for following up. Rare on internet forums these days…

I don’t think it matters from a practical standpoint, but if it were my panel, I’d put the neutral wire (from the main panel) on the large lug (on the top of the right bus bar). I think doing so makes it more obvious what role the wire is playing, and doesn’t leave that empty lug there which might cause someone later on to wonder if it’s wired properly.

The extra length of wire on the branch circuits isn’t adding anything but is making it hard to see what is going on. I realize that wasn’t what you were asking, but I recognize that tendency… :)

-- Barry, http://BarrysWorkshop.com/

View bshaff's profile

bshaff

20 posts in 1094 days


#20 posted 07-14-2017 12:09 AM

Thanks,

The reason the large lug is there is because originally that was the side the neutral wire was on but because I thought I had to use the green screw attached to the connecting pin and plug it into the right side bar to make it the ground bar I moved all the grounds over there originally. Well that being wrong I could not move it all back because some of my grounds were not long enough to go back over to the left so I just had the left side be neutral. I tried to unscrew the lug from the top of the neutral bar on the left but stripped the square head and now it remains there. If I could get it out I would do so.

-- Barry

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bshaff

20 posts in 1094 days


#21 posted 07-14-2017 12:10 AM



If you purchased the panel new there should have been an instruction sheet..

- WhyMe

There was but all it said was if you were going to use it as sub panel to not attach the bonding strip. You guys really helped me know what to do and I am very thankful.

-- Barry

View WhyMe's profile

WhyMe

1131 posts in 1860 days


#22 posted 07-14-2017 12:18 AM



Here is the completed box. I trust this is done correctly. A little messy but correct.

- bshaff

Thumbs-up. That is exactly the way the bars should be.

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bshaff

20 posts in 1094 days


#23 posted 07-14-2017 02:17 AM

Thank you that is good to know. Thanks for all the help. It means a lot.

-- Barry

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bshaff

20 posts in 1094 days


#24 posted 07-15-2017 11:06 PM

I was able to take the large lug off of the right side after all and put it on the left side where the neutral wires are. I hooked the main neutral to it so now everything is the way it should be.

Thanks every one for all the help.

-- Barry

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