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Craftsman 113.12171 motor burned up, save it or replace it?

by HandyHousewife
posted 03-14-2017 05:23 PM


34 replies so far

View dschlic1's profile

dschlic1

515 posts in 3179 days


#1 posted 03-14-2017 05:27 PM

You might find a local shop that will repair the motor. You can also do a Google search on a 1 Hp 3450 rpm motor.

View Tedstor's profile

Tedstor

1691 posts in 3843 days


#2 posted 03-14-2017 05:29 PM

I wouldnt bother fixing a saw that is in sorry shape and you don’t even really like. Look for something else on Craigslist. You can probably get a newer Craftsman 113/315 on craigslist, with a modern fence, for $150-200. Or look for an older Delta contractor saw.

View TheFridge's profile

TheFridge

10863 posts in 2696 days


#3 posted 03-14-2017 05:41 PM

If the motor didn’t start smoking then it’s more than likely another problem. Cap, centrifugal switch, or start switch.

A razor blade scraper will remove more crap from the top than you might think possible. Then a scotchbrite pad to get the dips and miter slot, clean up with a solvent (mineral spirits, etc) and wax it or put on whatever rust preventive coating you like. Do worry about getting to bare cast iron. Leave the patina. It’ll help protect against corrosion.

if the motor ends up being good then just find a new or used fence to put on it.

-- Shooting down the walls of heartache. Bang bang. I am. The warrior.

View HandyHousewife's profile

HandyHousewife

72 posts in 1940 days


#4 posted 03-14-2017 05:41 PM



You might find a local shop that will repair the motor. You can also do a Google search on a 1 Hp 3450 rpm motor.

- dschlic1

I’m finding a few with a “56 frame”, but my current one says that it’s a G56Z frame. Are they interchangeable?

-- Striving for function *and* form, but settling quite happily for function. ;-)

View MrUnix's profile

MrUnix

8744 posts in 3409 days


#5 posted 03-14-2017 05:45 PM

How did it ‘quit’? Did you try to turn it on and it just hummed? Did it quit in the middle of a cut? Is there any indication that it is trying to run at all? Most motor problems can be attributed to fairly simple problems to fix… you just need to figure out what it might be. Unless it needs to be rewound (rare), it should be salvageable. Given that it was running previously, it most likely is still good. You didn’t let out the magic smoke did you? :)

Cheers,
Brad

-- Brad in FL - In Dog I trust... everything else is questionable

View HandyHousewife's profile

HandyHousewife

72 posts in 1940 days


#6 posted 03-14-2017 05:45 PM



If the motor didn t start smoking then it s more than likely another problem. Cap, centrifugal switch, or start switch.

A razor blade scraper will remove more crap from the top than you might think possible. Then a scotchbrite pad to get the dips and miter slot, clean up with a solvent (mineral spirits, etc) and wax it or put on whatever rust preventive coating you like. Do worry about getting to bare cast iron. Leave the patina. It ll help protect against corrosion.

if the motor ends up being good then just find a new or used fence to put on it.

- TheFridge

I was thinking something along these lines for refurbishing the top, but it’s always nice to have someone else reinforce your thinking. Thanks!

-- Striving for function *and* form, but settling quite happily for function. ;-)

View HandyHousewife's profile

HandyHousewife

72 posts in 1940 days


#7 posted 03-14-2017 05:54 PM



How did it quit ? Did you try to turn it on and it just hummed? Did it quit in the middle of a cut? Is there any indication that it is trying to run at all? Most motor problems can be attributed to fairly simple problems to fix… you just need to figure out what it might be. Unless it needs to be rewound (rare), it should be salvageable. Given that it was running previously, it most likely is still good. You didn t let out the magic smoke did you? :)

Cheers,
Brad

- MrUnix

My husband thinks the bearings went out. Mid board, the blade suddenly stopped, but the motor still hums. No smoke.

-- Striving for function *and* form, but settling quite happily for function. ;-)

View HandyHousewife's profile

HandyHousewife

72 posts in 1940 days


#8 posted 03-14-2017 05:58 PM



I wouldnt bother fixing a saw that is in sorry shape and you don t even really like. Look for something else on Craigslist. You can probably get a newer Craftsman 113/315 on craigslist, with a modern fence, for $150-200. Or look for an older Delta contractor saw.

- Tedstor

If it can’t be fixed, I will keep this in mind—I never think of Craigslist for anything, but maybe that’s just because I’ve never found anything I’m looking for on there (yet!). Thanks!

And yeah, the old Delta contractor saw I borrowed from an old contractor friend was pretty awesome—that’s what made us so excited when DH’s aunt said she had this one. :-)

-- Striving for function *and* form, but settling quite happily for function. ;-)

View MrUnix's profile

MrUnix

8744 posts in 3409 days


#9 posted 03-14-2017 05:59 PM

My husband thinks the bearings went out. Mid board, the blade suddenly stopped, but the motor still hums. No smoke.
- HandyHousewife

Bearings are a pretty simple fix if that is what it is. Certainly a possibility given the age of the motor and the fact that it has not been used in a very long time. Try taking off the belt and spinning the motor by hand, as that will give you a pretty good indication if they are seized or not. Since you have already basically written the motor off, it certainly won’t hurt anything to open it up and see what is going on. Give it a good cleaning out, check the bearings, clean up the contacts on the centrifugal switch, etc… also, grab a multimeter and test the capacitor while you are at it. Can’t tell from the data plate, but does it have one (start) or two (start + run) capacitors?

Chances are, you are looking at just a few dollars to fix, rather than several hundred to replace.

Cheers,
Brad

-- Brad in FL - In Dog I trust... everything else is questionable

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HandyHousewife

72 posts in 1940 days


#10 posted 03-14-2017 06:04 PM



Bearings are a pretty simple fix if that is what it is. Certainly a possibility given the age of the motor and the fact that it has not been used in a very long time. Try taking off the belt and spinning the motor by hand, as that will give you a pretty good indication if they are seized or not. Since you have already basically written the motor off, it certainly won t hurt anything to open it up and see what is going on. Give it a good cleaning out, check the bearings, clean up the contacts on the centrifugal switch, etc… also, grab a multimeter and test the capacitor while you are at it.

Chances are, you are looking at just a few dollars to fix, rather than several hundred to replace.

Cheers,
Brad

- MrUnix

I will have my husband take it apart when he gets home, because that would be pretty awesome if it was fixable. The trick might be finding parts.

Thanks!

-- Striving for function *and* form, but settling quite happily for function. ;-)

View MrUnix's profile

MrUnix

8744 posts in 3409 days


#11 posted 03-14-2017 06:07 PM

I will have my husband take it apart when he gets home, because that would be pretty awesome if it was fixable. The trick might be finding parts.
- HandyHousewife

The only parts you would probably need is bearings and/or capacitors… both are off the shelf items that can be found easily at numerous places (other than Sears :)

Cheers,
Brad

-- Brad in FL - In Dog I trust... everything else is questionable

View bandit571's profile

bandit571

29537 posts in 3893 days


#12 posted 03-14-2017 06:08 PM

Simple test: take the pulley off. Try the motor…..shaft turning? May be it is a pulley problem. They are held on with two set screws, and a keyway piece. IF one screw was missing, the other gets loose, and the key stock wanders out of the pulley. Check BOTH pulleys while you are at it.

-- A Planer? I'M the planer, this is what I use

View HandyHousewife's profile

HandyHousewife

72 posts in 1940 days


#13 posted 03-14-2017 06:09 PM

I can’t tell from the plate itself about the capacitors, there’s certainly enough space for it to have had the word “run” in there at one point, but the sticker has peeled off and turned black in that spot. Sorry.

-- Striving for function *and* form, but settling quite happily for function. ;-)

View HandyHousewife's profile

HandyHousewife

72 posts in 1940 days


#14 posted 03-14-2017 06:13 PM

You guys are awesome! I’ll have DH check this stuff when he gets home and we’ll see what our options are. In the meantime, I suppose I should probably get back to the stuff they pay me the big buck…erm that I get lots of prestig…well, you know. ;-)

-- Striving for function *and* form, but settling quite happily for function. ;-)

View TheFridge's profile

TheFridge

10863 posts in 2696 days


#15 posted 03-15-2017 12:01 AM

56 frame is pretty much a run of the mill standard motor. I’d be willing to bet just about any motor with a 56 base should work. This I only know because of minimal research and in passing while changing motors and looking for replacements.

-- Shooting down the walls of heartache. Bang bang. I am. The warrior.

View dschlic1's profile

dschlic1

515 posts in 3179 days


#16 posted 03-15-2017 05:33 PM

If this is the type of saw with the motor hanging off the back, then just about any frame that is of similar size will work. Might have to purchase a new pulley if the shaft size is different.

But I agree if the motor is humming but not turning, some simple trouble shooting is in order. If you feel such is beyond your capabilities, check your local listings for an electrician.

View Joseymike's profile

Joseymike

6 posts in 1675 days


#17 posted 03-15-2017 07:32 PM

You might be able to find a cheap craftsmans 113. replacement saw on CL to see if you like them or not. I see a lot of contractors TS for about $100-200 with a good motor. Could get something for your saw without the motor of you decided to sell it.

View runswithscissors's profile

runswithscissors

3133 posts in 3235 days


#18 posted 03-16-2017 01:51 AM

Years and years is a long time for an aunt to be siting. Maybe not a favorite aunt?

-- I admit to being an adrenaline junky; fortunately, I'm very easily frightened

View HandyHousewife's profile

HandyHousewife

72 posts in 1940 days


#19 posted 03-17-2017 01:59 AM

OK, so I got tired of waiting for my husband to get around to taking the motor apart, so I did it myself. This is a surefire way to ensure that my husband comes to help. ;-) It was filthy in there, lots of sawdust and a couple of mud dobber’s nests, but between the shopvac and the air compressor I got the worst of that out.

^That’s the “before” picture for all you smart alecs on here. ;-)

One side of the shaft came off of the cover like it was no big deal, but the other end seemed wedged on pretty tight, so we had to break out a hammer and a makeshift punch. Then, when the shaft finally came apart, it didn’t have any “bearings”, it was more of a bushing.

It was buggered up though, so it needs to be replaced, and when it came out, we discovered it has a number on it, so that will hopefully help. My FIL says he has a whole bunch of bushings that we’re welcome to dig through or he suggested HD/Menards. We’ll see.

The cover for the capacitor came off easily, but was packed clear full of sawdust. I got quite a bit of it out, but was a bit nervous about poking around in there with a screwdriver to loosen it up. We’re not sure how to test it to see if it’s still working, but we can probably look it up online somewhere. When I put it back together, should I put some silicone or liquid gasket around it to seal it up from new dirt/debris?

-- Striving for function *and* form, but settling quite happily for function. ;-)

View TheFridge's profile

TheFridge

10863 posts in 2696 days


#20 posted 03-17-2017 02:24 AM

No silicone or anything really needed.

Something in that picture right above doesn’t look right. Like the end cap of the casting was broken off.

I see now the motor says sleeve bearings. That’s new to me.

-- Shooting down the walls of heartache. Bang bang. I am. The warrior.

View MrUnix's profile

MrUnix

8744 posts in 3409 days


#21 posted 03-17-2017 02:40 AM

Sleeve bearings are pretty typical on those saws, particularly the lower end ones. Surprisingly enough though, bronze sleeve bearings have less friction and last much longer than ball bearings – as long as they are kept maintained! Most think it would be the opposite, since it appears to be metal on metal contact – but the shaft actually rides on a thin film of oil. Once you let them dry up, then it is actually metal on metal, and they can become toast pretty quick.

Replacing them is kind of a PITA. You need to press out the old ones and press in new ones. In addition, those bearings typically have a slot or two in them for the wicking felts to contact the shaft, and sometimes have small oil channels milled into them for greater oil distribution. Usually if the bushings are in good condition, it’s a good idea to pull the wicking felts out, clean and re-saturate with oil before reassembly. They are like like little dirt and grime magnets and you will be amazed at how much crap can come out of them. The metal cap on the inside that covers them should just be a press fit and pop right off with a screwdriver or similar.

Capacitor can be tested with a cheap multimeter in resistance mode. Lots of videos online showing how. Don’t worry, it won’t bite :)

Cheers,
Brad

-- Brad in FL - In Dog I trust... everything else is questionable

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HandyHousewife

72 posts in 1940 days


#22 posted 03-18-2017 04:11 PM

I went to almost every store in town, but I did manage to find a couple of different sleeve options. I went ahead and bought a new capacitor too since I already had it apart. For $11, it seemed silly not to swap it out for a new one. All told I spent half a day, but only about $15 for my parts. It’s always interesting to visit those types of places though—so many of them have all sorts of little gems of information and parts you would have never thought to be able to buy anywhere but online. Or maybe I’m just weird. ;-)

Of the two sleeves I found, one had the exact (inner/outer) dimensions, except it’s about a 1/4” longer than the old one—I’m not seeing how this could hurt anything as long as the extra length is on the outside of the housing. Am I wrong here?

The other sleeve they told me will need hollowed out—but they told me that’s NBD since it’s brass. However, it is from a craftsman motor, and a tech that used to work full time on these sorts of tools told me that it’d work. I’m not sure which one we’ll end up using.

I’ve got the oil I need to oil the felts, so now I just need to clean them, decide on a sleeve, and test it out. Wish me luck!

-- Striving for function *and* form, but settling quite happily for function. ;-)

View cicerojoe's profile

cicerojoe

64 posts in 4655 days


#23 posted 03-18-2017 04:24 PM

I don’t think anybody brought up thermal overload. Most electric motors turn off internally if they get too hot.. If it just quits, no smoke, it could be it was over-heating. Once they cool off, they’ll work again. Something like a mis-aligned pulley or too-fast feed rate could cause overheating, especially in a hot environment.

-- John from the Cherry Valley Studio in NY http://www.cvalleystudio.com

View runswithscissors's profile

runswithscissors

3133 posts in 3235 days


#24 posted 03-18-2017 06:29 PM

I was wondering about that too. On my dad’s (very) old C’man with the Dunlop motor, it would trip the overload under any kind of strain—like ripping a 2X4. There was a little red button you pushed to reset it after cooling down. But of course I assumed you had already checked that out.

-- I admit to being an adrenaline junky; fortunately, I'm very easily frightened

View cicerojoe's profile

cicerojoe

64 posts in 4655 days


#25 posted 03-18-2017 07:38 PM

Most themal overload circuits are automatic now. If there is no button, then it will reset automatically once cooled.

-- John from the Cherry Valley Studio in NY http://www.cvalleystudio.com

View MrUnix's profile

MrUnix

8744 posts in 3409 days


#26 posted 03-18-2017 07:46 PM

Most themal overload circuits are automatic now. If there is no button, then it will reset automatically once cooled.
- cicerojoe

I’ve never seen an automatically resetting overload (ie: Klixon) on a table saw motor – as it would be a safety hazard. The last thing you want is for a table saw motor to just start by itself after an overload, which is why they require a manual reset. Same reason for using magnetic power switches – to prevent the saw from restarting unexpectedly after a power fail.

Cheers,
Brad

-- Brad in FL - In Dog I trust... everything else is questionable

View runswithscissors's profile

runswithscissors

3133 posts in 3235 days


#27 posted 03-18-2017 08:49 PM

Hence the desirability of magnetic switches, which open when power goes off.

-- I admit to being an adrenaline junky; fortunately, I'm very easily frightened

View HandyHousewife's profile

HandyHousewife

72 posts in 1940 days


#28 posted 03-20-2017 03:57 PM

So Saturday we put the new bearing in, oiled it up, reassembled, and she runs! I haven’t had time to clean up the top yet, but we got some of the trim for our house ripped with it. The old blade looked rusty, but it’s still in good shape so after a couple of small scrap pieces it was shined up and cutting great! The saw is quiet and smooth, much better than I expected. :-)

I still want to replace the stand, clean/wax the top, and the fence is barely functional (lots of tapping and measuring to set it up every time), but for a free saw we’re pretty pleased. Next up we get to decide if the old DeWalt radial arm saw that came with it is worth saving. ;-) But first we gotta finish siding the house!

Thanks everyone! You guys had some great ideas and we couldn’t have done it without you!

-- Striving for function *and* form, but settling quite happily for function. ;-)

View Tedstor's profile

Tedstor

1691 posts in 3843 days


#29 posted 03-20-2017 04:00 PM

I just love a happy ending

View HerbC's profile

HerbC

1820 posts in 4069 days


#30 posted 03-20-2017 04:49 PM

The radial arm saw may well be worth saving. Don’t fall for the hype about the “dangers” of RAS, any tool can be dangerous…

Good Luck!

Be Careful!

Herb

-- Herb, Florida - Here's why I close most messages with "Be Careful!" http://lumberjocks.com/HerbC/blog/17090

View TheFridge's profile

TheFridge

10863 posts in 2696 days


#31 posted 03-20-2017 05:02 PM

Razor blade scraper, a cupped wire wheel on a drill, and some mineral spirits to clean up will make quick work of the top.

-- Shooting down the walls of heartache. Bang bang. I am. The warrior.

View HandyHousewife's profile

HandyHousewife

72 posts in 1940 days


#32 posted 04-10-2017 12:10 AM

insert swear words here The magic smoke came out. There was also a small puff of fire too. Not sure what happened, but the motor is now toast. :-(

So naturally, I went to all the big box stores and looked at a few of the saws that I had read reviews for to see which one looked like our best bet. Honestly, I don’t know much about table saws, but the one we have looks much sturdier/nicer than any of the ones I looked at in our budget, so I’m looking at a couple of different motors to replace the one we burned up. Which would you choose? I’m leaning towards the 1.5 HP myself, but one of the reviews says that it’s too heavy for the saw…??

https://www.amazon.com/Grizzly-G2533-Motor-Single-Phase-3450/dp/B00DQJOZ08/ref=sr_1_3?ie=UTF8&qid=1491755907&sr=8-3&keywords=table+saw+motor

https://www.amazon.com/Grizzly-G2535-Single-Phase-Motor-3450/dp/B00DQJOZ94/ref=pd_cp_469_1?_encoding=UTF8&pd_rd_i=B00DQJOZ94&pd_rd_r=CX419927DRX8P47H086N&pd_rd_w=p9O0v&pd_rd_wg=Mq0qP&psc=1&refRID=CX419927DRX8P47H086N

For the record, I did look on Craigslist, but true to form, our CL has nothing. Our region is the worst for thrift stores and CL finds.

-- Striving for function *and* form, but settling quite happily for function. ;-)

View HandyHousewife's profile

HandyHousewife

72 posts in 1940 days


#33 posted 04-10-2017 12:14 AM



Razor blade scraper, a cupped wire wheel on a drill, and some mineral spirits to clean up will make quick work of the top.

- TheFridge

No cupped wire wheel, so I used a random orbital sander to get the worst of the rust off, wiped it with alcohol, and then applied two coats of Johnson’s paste wax. The top cleaned up beautifully, just in time for the motor to give out.

-- Striving for function *and* form, but settling quite happily for function. ;-)

View runswithscissors's profile

runswithscissors

3133 posts in 3235 days


#34 posted 04-10-2017 12:58 AM

Before you give up, check whether that motor has one or two capacitors. (Usually a start cap and a run cap). Sometimes only one, though. They are easy to replace and not expensive. Doesn’t matter what brand, doesn’t need to be Sears. Ah, I see above that you did do the capacitor. Still, wouldn’t hurt to check.

-- I admit to being an adrenaline junky; fortunately, I'm very easily frightened

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