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View xunil76's profile

question regarding 4-jaw chuck

by xunil76
posted 02-23-2017 01:28 AM


24 replies so far

View jimintx's profile

jimintx

899 posts in 1881 days


#1 posted 02-23-2017 01:38 AM

There are about a thousand people on here that know this lathe stuff better than me, and with that warning about anything I write, I think you have it right.

I have spent way more time than I care to admit trying to understand lathe chucks. I have concluded only one thing, which is that there are at least some people that strongly recommend every chuck made; and others that have negative opinions about every chuck made. I didn’t think any of the marketing info was really very informative, although reading through all of it will definitely give some clues about how they work.

Last week I gave up and ordered a chuck “kit”, and just got the box open last night. I didn’t pick the one you have listed, but I sure might have, and I think it must be a good choice. I just clicked your link and read it again, and I don’t even completely know why I didn’t pick it – seems a good deal to me.

.

-- Jim, Houston, TX

View Tennessee's profile

Tennessee

2895 posts in 2811 days


#2 posted 02-23-2017 02:24 AM

Yes, if you buy that chuck, and the adapter, you can do what you have suggested.

With that being said, chucks that are four jaw self-centering these days are all pretty decent, so it comes down to the jaws, not so much the chuck. Yes, there are heavier duty chucks ranging from say, the Oneway Stronghold, (My personal favorite), down to smaller chucks, even mini chucks that are no more than 2 1/2” in diameter.

I always say that you should buy as big a chuck as you can afford and comfortably fit on your current lathe. Adapters are cheap, and a lot of chuck kits come with one.

As far as jaws, the trick is as soon as you get the chuck and use it for a while, you will want and need different jaws. Some work better than others, so I always try to lock down reviews on Amazon on both chucks and jaws, and this chuck kit does play to five stars on Amazon, albeit only five reviews.

But the burning question, and I can’t answer because I didn’t bother to do the research, is how many useful other jaws does it offer through Woodcraft, and are they expensive, etc.

One Other Thing about the Woodriver – that is a double bar chuck, where you tighten it with the two included bars. I don’t care for that style, and would much rather have a screw handle chuck. See the Barracuda or more expensive chucks for what I mean. You will get tired of the two handle tightening system very quickly. And you will always lose one of them…

I recently replaced my old HF lathe I did pens on with a Turncrafter 12” lathe from PSI. I also popped for their Barracuda2 four jaw chuck set, which comes with four different jaw sets. Total is $139, only $40 more than your Woodriver, and the Barracuda comes with three extra jaws and a center screw + the adapter to go from 3/4 to 1”. Might be worth looking at the PSI site for a comparison before jumping.
There are others, many, and some are very good, like Vicmarc, Oneway, Nova, and others.
Woodriver is somewhere at the lower end of the scale, as would be the PSI Barracuda, but for a starter chuck you can keep and use with one set of jaws if you ever buy another more expensive chuck, neither seem bad.
Hope this helps.

-- Tsunami Guitars and Custom Woodworking, Cleveland, TN

View Nubsnstubs's profile

Nubsnstubs

1480 posts in 2027 days


#3 posted 02-23-2017 03:20 AM

In the chuck link you posted was a Nova G3 without insert for the same price as the one you are thinking about. You would still have to get an insert anyway, so my thoughts are to get the G3 and an insert, and in the future, if you get a larger lather, get another insert to fit. G3’s are good, and you only need to keep track of the chuck key, instead of 2 bars.

When turning at locations other than my own shop, I do what I can to not use the Tommy bar chucks. I’ve never been able to keep them tight. ............ Jerry (in Tucson)

-- Jerry (in Tucson) www.woodturnerstools.com

View TheDane's profile

TheDane

5606 posts in 3960 days


#4 posted 02-23-2017 03:26 AM

I’ve never been able to keep them tight.

Me neither!

-- Gerry -- "I don't plan to ever really grow up ... I'm just going to learn how to act in public!"

View papadan's profile

papadan

3584 posts in 3665 days


#5 posted 02-23-2017 03:36 AM

I have to recommend the Barracuda set, I have been using it on 2 different lathes for about 8 years. If the extra $40 is too much then you need to got with the Nova G3. The Woodriver is a good chuck but the double tommy bars require 2 handed use. One hand scroll chucks let you hold your work piece in place while tightening or loosening the chuck. Again, the Barracuda set really is the best choice because of all the different jaws and accessories it comes with.

View xunil76's profile

xunil76

31 posts in 761 days


#6 posted 02-23-2017 03:47 AM

so with the Nova G3, would the same adapter i posted in my first link work, or do i have to buy the Teknatool one that they sell?:

https://www.woodcraft.com/products/nova-rh-insert-3-4-x-16-tpi?via=573621bd69702d0676000002%2C573621db69702d0676000d9d%2C5763fed669702d6582000b74

threads are threads, right? unless there’s some weird clearancing issue

View jimintx's profile

jimintx

899 posts in 1881 days


#7 posted 02-23-2017 03:51 AM

OK, well, the one I went for is, in fact, the Barracuda2, model #CSC3000C.

I can’t tell about actually using icon a lathe because I just opened it. But I agree that getting the whole she-bang in a nice case, when it has lots and lots of good reviews, at a price of $140 was enough to sway my decision. Just handing it, I like the way it feels and operates. And Penn Industries has a number of other jaws and plates and such that fit it, so I liked getting the versatility of options.

-- Jim, Houston, TX

View papadan's profile

papadan

3584 posts in 3665 days


#8 posted 02-23-2017 04:01 AM

Looks like you would need a different adapter for each size $20 each The Nova is not threaded to fit any lathe, it is made to fit their adapters. Here is the Barracuda amazon. https://www.amazon.com/PSI-Woodworking-CSC500K-Barracuda-System/dp/B000REX1UK/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&qid=1487822275&sr=8-2&keywords=barracuda2+lathe+key+chuck+system

View xunil76's profile

xunil76

31 posts in 761 days


#9 posted 02-23-2017 04:02 AM



OK, well, the one I went for is, in fact, the Barracuda2, model #CSC3000C.

I can t tell about actually using icon a lathe because I just opened it. But I agree that getting the whole she-bang in a nice case, when it has lots and lots of good reviews, at a price of $140 was enough to sway my decision. Just handing it, I like the way it feels and operates. And Penn Industries has a number of other jaws and plates and such that fit it, so I liked getting the versatility of options.

- jimintx

wow, that one does come with quite a bit for the money…and i do like the fact that it comes in a carrying/storage case, too. has both 3/4” x 16tpi and 1” x 8tpi included as well, which is exactly what i was wanting out of a chuck, plus 4 sets of jaws. we may have a winner here, folks.

sure, at some point, i may find that i need a much bigger/better chuck, but that will likely be several years and a much larger & more expensive lathe down the road…right now i’m just working with a tiny mini lathe and just want to easily be able to turn small bowls/platters on it while i get the hang of things.

let me know how you like this chuck once you’ve got some mileage on it!

View MrUnix's profile

MrUnix

7242 posts in 2496 days


#10 posted 02-23-2017 06:27 AM

IMO, that Barracuda 2 is currently the best bang for the buck… The only downside is that, out of the box, it will only work on a 1”-8tpi or 3/4”-16tpi spindle, as there are no other inserts available for it from them (you would need a spindle adapter for any other size). Not really a deal breaker for most, but it is an extra bit that sits between the spindle and chuck reducing overall length between centers. For the lathe in question by the OP though, it would be an ideal solution.

Cheers,
Brad

PS: The chuck Dan links to is the micro chuck, which is smaller and doesn’t include as many jaw sets. The CSC3000C, which is the larger mid-sized chuck, is only $10 more directly from PennState:
Barracuda2 Lathe Key Chuck System CSC3000C

-- Brad in FL - In Dog I trust... everything else is questionable

View papadan's profile

papadan

3584 posts in 3665 days


#11 posted 02-23-2017 06:58 AM

So many versions to choose from, I hit the wrong link. At least the OP went with the best option for his money. I do have the 3000c

when I bought mine, they had a special going on and included a set of flat jaws with 3/4” bowl pins for free. I haven’t even used them yet.

View LeeMills's profile

LeeMills

650 posts in 1598 days


#12 posted 02-23-2017 02:28 PM

I have no experience with the PSI but between the Woodriver and the Nova G3 I would go with the Nova hands down. Insert style chuck + insert comes to $105 on Amazon.
https://www.amazon.com/s/ref=nb_sb_ss_c_1_8?url=search-alias%3Daps&field-keywords=nova+g3+chuck&sprefix=nova+g3+%2Caps%2C145&crid=36GUVX3JXWLDF
If you really want a Woodriver I have one including an extra set of #1 (pin) jaws for 60% of new. You would need a new WC insert as mine is 1.25X8.

-- We cannot solve our problems with the same thinking we used when we created them. Albert Einstein

View Bill7255's profile

Bill7255

428 posts in 2582 days


#13 posted 02-23-2017 03:39 PM

I have both the barracuda 2 and the nova G3. I have the older barracuda 2, like papadan. It is a good chuck. It has a square drive key. The newer barracuda 2 shows a spline drive like the Barracuda 4 chuck I have. I hate the barracuda 4 spline key as it tends to ride up when tightening. I have since bought the HTC 125 and the barracuda 4 is just for jumbo jaws. I also have the PSI utility chuck. It comes with the adapter for your lathe. It is a Tommy bar chuck. I would recommend either the PSI utility chuck or the Nova G3. These chucks are lighter and more suited for a 3/4” spindle. I really like the G3, but the versatility of the PSI utility chuck for the price is hard to pass up.

-- Bill R

View LeeMills's profile

LeeMills

650 posts in 1598 days


#14 posted 02-23-2017 04:39 PM



so with the Nova G3, would the same adapter i posted in my first link work, or do i have to buy the Teknatool one that they sell?:

https://www.woodcraft.com/products/nova-rh-insert-3-4-x-16-tpi?via=573621bd69702d0676000002%2C573621db69702d0676000d9d%2C5763fed669702d6582000b74

threads are threads, right? unless there s some weird clearancing issue

- xunil76

I had missed this.
The answer is NO. The Nova insert is made to seat to the interior of the chuck body. Woodcraft even has a small sign posted in store that their chuck insert is not for Nova. They do still sell another knockoff that they have made which causes run out also. If the insert is not in a red Teknatool box it is not a Nova.
Nova use to sell rebuilt chucks from their service center pretty cheap. For some reason when WC stopped selling their WC inserts for Nova chucks the quality of Nova, as to run out, greatly improved and there is almost no rebuilt chucks available now for some reason….

-- We cannot solve our problems with the same thinking we used when we created them. Albert Einstein

View Woodknack's profile

Woodknack

12634 posts in 2677 days


#15 posted 02-23-2017 07:22 PM

Depends on which Nova you buy. That style of insert is made for a threaded chuck with 1-8 threads and will work on a Nova with 1-8 threads. I know because I’ve done it. It will not work on an insert type Nova chuck, for those you need Nova inserts. Nova makes at least 2 Chuck’s with 1-8 threads.

-- Rick M, http://thewoodknack.blogspot.com/

View LeeMills's profile

LeeMills

650 posts in 1598 days


#16 posted 02-23-2017 09:20 PM

I still think that is incorrect. The WC comes with a 1X8 insert per the listing. To use with your 3/4” spindle you would need a different insert as you linked to. I have a WC chuck and it is threaded for 1.5 X 8 just like a Nova chuck (and lots of other brands). So you can’t remove the 3/4” insert and install the chuck directly onto a 1X8 spindle. Not sure why WC would have an insert threaded 1” on the exterior but according to the above they do.

Until now I have never heard of an insert that would fit a Nova 1X8 direct threaded chuck. I know folks who move up from a 1” to a 1.25” spindle can use a spindle adapter but that is a different animal. In that case you are decreasing the size of the spindle itself in order to use the chuck.

This show the Nova insert (left) and WC. You can easily see the WC is shorter. The end of the Nova insert and the interior of the chuck are machined to mate for alignment and transfer of power. The WC is too short to even mate with the interior of the Nova chuck.

-- We cannot solve our problems with the same thinking we used when we created them. Albert Einstein

View papadan's profile

papadan

3584 posts in 3665 days


#17 posted 02-23-2017 09:31 PM

I chose the Barracuda because of all that comes with it and it fits both of my lathes. My little Jet lathe (pictured) has the 1-”8tpi shaft and my Ridgid is just like the old Craftsman Tube lathe and has the 3/4”- 16tpi shaft. The Ridgid has #1 Morse taper & the Jet has #2.

View jimintx's profile

jimintx

899 posts in 1881 days


#18 posted 02-24-2017 12:15 AM

... I have spent way more time than I care to admit trying to understand lathe chucks. I have concluded only one thing, which is that there are at least some people that strongly recommend every chuck made; and others that have negative opinions about every chuck made.

I didn t think any of the marketing info was really very informative, although reading through all of it will definitely give some clues about how they work.

Last week I gave up and ordered a chuck “kit”, ...
- jimintx

This thread, now at 18 posts, is another great example of what I was talking about when I wrote post #1, expressing how confusing this whole topic can be, and why I just gave up and ordered the kit from a company that seems to make about every extra accessory I might ever want, that will work with their chuck.

This lathe chuck topic might just be the most murky area of all woodworking gear. It is to me, anyway. Really, after a few decades of engineering and industrial work, I do understand how screw threads work and how they are specified … well, at least I think I do, but with lathe chucks, who knows!

.

-- Jim, Houston, TX

View Woodknack's profile

Woodknack

12634 posts in 2677 days


#19 posted 02-24-2017 12:25 AM

Lee, There are adapters for using a 1” threaded chuck on a 3/4” spindle, I own one. I also own an adapter to go from 12tpi to 8 tpi on a 1” spindle. My point was that you need to pay attention to what you buy because there are different types of Nova adapters for different chuck bodies.

-- Rick M, http://thewoodknack.blogspot.com/

View TheFridge's profile

TheFridge

10844 posts in 1783 days


#20 posted 02-24-2017 02:09 AM

I bought a PSI B2 i believe. Works good. Does its job. Fairly cheap.

-- Shooting down the walls of heartache. Bang bang. I am. The warrior.

View LeeMills's profile

LeeMills

650 posts in 1598 days


#21 posted 02-24-2017 02:25 PM

Lee, There are adapters for using a 1” threaded chuck on a 3/4” spindle, I own one. I also own an adapter to go from 12tpi to 8 tpi on a 1” spindle.
I agree, you can probably buy an adapter for almost anything. But, it sounds like you are describing a spindle adapter not a chuck insert. Just the way I read it.

My point was that you need to pay attention to what you buy because there are different types of Nova adapters for different chuck bodies.
You may be correct. As far as I know there are only two types of Nova adapters; the 1.5” exterior for US market and (IIRC) the 37mm exterior for international markets. In each one there are many different internal threads so it will fit most any lathe.
Using the two exterior measurements they offer 27 different interior combinations to fit different lathes.
http://novatoolsusa.com/searchquick-submit.sc?keywords=insert
If you have a link to other Nova made inserts I would appreciate it. As far as I know every Nova chuck body that is made to take an insert is one of the two (” or mm depending on country sold in) whether it is a SN, G3, G3-D, SN2,...

-- We cannot solve our problems with the same thinking we used when we created them. Albert Einstein

View Woodknack's profile

Woodknack

12634 posts in 2677 days


#22 posted 02-24-2017 06:28 PM

Ok, my previous posts weren’t clear. What I meant to say was you need to pay attention to which Nova chuck you buy because they sell 2 that are 1-8 threaded. You can buy one of those and use a universal 1-8 to 3/4-16 adapter (I’ve done it). I thought Nova sold universal adapters but apparently not according to your link, nevertheless, other companies sell them. Sorry for the confusion.

-- Rick M, http://thewoodknack.blogspot.com/

View xunil76's profile

xunil76

31 posts in 761 days


#23 posted 03-02-2017 01:43 PM

just as a follow-up on this, i ordered the Barracuda 2 CSC3000C yesterday….seems like the best overall value to at least get me into a usable chuck with a lot of choices on jaws (included), with the added benefit of being able to easily move it over to a new lathe when/if i do end up getting a bigger one. i’ve got all sorts of ideas of stuff to do, and while not really impossible to do without a chuck, it would definitely be much more difficult and time-consuming. can’t wait to get started using this thing!

View OSU55's profile

OSU55

2148 posts in 2286 days


#24 posted 03-03-2017 12:35 PM

I think you’ll be happy with the CSC3000C. It’s still the best value out there. I’ve had one for several years and would buy another one. I recommend you take the chuck apart, and clean it and all the jaws with solvent to remove the rp, and inspect for machining burrs & lightly file/sand the sharp edges of mating pieces. cover everything with paste wax and put it back together. The wax provides enough lubrication and rust prevention, and it won’t collect wood dust. Just blow out the back of the chuck once in a while. Slightly Rounding off the upper outside corners of each chuck jaw is a good idea – invariable one of those corners will catch a tool or a piece of you.

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