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View huyz's profile

Best way to flush trim lots of 3/4" plywood?

by huyz
posted 02-22-2017 05:34 AM


25 replies so far

View builtinbkyn's profile

builtinbkyn

2982 posts in 1507 days


#1 posted 02-22-2017 05:43 AM

Maybe I’m naive for asking, but why not a TS and sled? Cut 7” strips on the TS and then set a stop for 7” on your sled. I would think this is much fasted than rough cutting on a band saw and then cleaning them up with a router.

-- Bill, Yo!......in Brooklyn & Steel City :)

View papadan's profile

papadan

3584 posts in 3935 days


#2 posted 02-22-2017 06:31 AM

My exact thoughts! A good plywood blade on the TS and crosscut sled. = finished

View huyz's profile

huyz

58 posts in 1427 days


#3 posted 02-22-2017 07:20 AM

Thanks guys I guess I should clarify. They are curvy shapes, definitely not “squares.” I was giving dimensions roughly to estimate how much life each bit would have cutting these. Ive updated the original post to reflect that.


Maybe I m naive for asking, but why not a TS and sled? Cut 7” strips on the TS and then set a stop for 7” on your sled. I would think this is much fasted than rough cutting on a band saw and then cleaning them up with a router.

- builtinbkyn


My exact thoughts! A good plywood blade on the TS and crosscut sled. = finished

- papadan


View papadan's profile

papadan

3584 posts in 3935 days


#4 posted 02-22-2017 07:33 AM

Clarity of what’s needed does seem to help on occasion! Buy a quality flush trim bit and make your template so you can trim any shape you need on the router table. I have $5 woodcraft bits that are still sharp after cutting hundreds of feet of wood.

View AlaskaGuy's profile

AlaskaGuy

5454 posts in 2875 days


#5 posted 02-22-2017 08:41 AM

Hundreds, how many hundreds? Repetitive stuff like that become so boring after a while you’ll start dreading going out to the shop after a while. I’d go CNC route. Life is just to short. I’d spend my time building something more interesting.

Your mileage my vary

-- Alaskan's for Global warming!

View RobS888's profile

RobS888

2620 posts in 2411 days


#6 posted 02-22-2017 01:21 PM


I m looking to cut lots (hundreds) of approximately 7×7” curvy shapes out of 3/4” plywood, and was wondering what the best way is. I was leaning towards making a pattern, trimming pieces on a band saw as close as possible, then using a flush trim bit on a router table.

Was considering the Whiteside compression carbide bit or a narrower carbide bit from MCLS. But any idea how many feet of 3/4” ply these bits can cut before needing sharpening? I already tried a ~$10 MCLS flush trim bit and it dulled after cutting about two pieces. It s only important that one side of the wood is cleanly cut, so using just an upcut bit is possible, but mainly considering the Whiteside bit for its larger size/longevity before sharpening (would that be accurate?).

I thought about hiring out a someone with a CNC, but would rather do this myself. Not needing these all tomorrow or anything but want an efficient method to use in my own shop.

Is this a good route to look into or is there a better method altogether?

- huyz

Sometimes we all don’t read the question before answering…

That looks like a monster bit. I have a Freud 1/2 inch trim bit and have used it for years.

I think your approach sounds fine.

A band saw duplicating pin would really help by making the cuts fool proof and reduce the amount needed to be routed. I think the glue in the plywood would be the hardest on the bit, so getting that to a small consistent offset would be best for the bit.

http://www.rakuten.com/prod/bandsaw-duplicating-pin-set-by-peachtree-woodworking-pw1770/227994094.html
EDIT:
Hmmm, Rocker doesn’t seem to carry it anymore.

-- I always knew gun nuts where afraid of something, just never thought popcorn was on the list.

View bondogaposis's profile

bondogaposis

5573 posts in 2918 days


#7 posted 02-22-2017 01:46 PM

Buy 2 bits of whatever you decide on, and then you can rotate the sharp one in while the dull one gets sent out to be sharpened.

-- Bondo Gaposis

View builtinbkyn's profile

builtinbkyn

2982 posts in 1507 days


#8 posted 02-22-2017 02:11 PM

I’m pretty sure I’m not that crazy yet. The OP said “7×7” squares.” “Curvy shapes” never would have elicited my response.

Edit: Ah I see your later post. Thanks for giving me my sanity back LOL

I m looking to cut lots (hundreds) of approximately 7×7” curvy shapes out of 3/4” plywood, and was wondering what the best way is. I was leaning towards making a pattern, trimming pieces on a band saw as close as possible, then using a flush trim bit on a router table.

Was considering the Whiteside compression carbide bit or a narrower carbide bit from MCLS. But any idea how many feet of 3/4” ply these bits can cut before needing sharpening? I already tried a ~$10 MCLS flush trim bit and it dulled after cutting about two pieces. It s only important that one side of the wood is cleanly cut, so using just an upcut bit is possible, but mainly considering the Whiteside bit for its larger size/longevity before sharpening (would that be accurate?).

I thought about hiring out a someone with a CNC, but would rather do this myself. Not needing these all tomorrow or anything but want an efficient method to use in my own shop.

Is this a good route to look into or is there a better method altogether?

- huyz

Sometimes we all don t read the question before answering…

That looks like a monster bit. I have a Freud 1/2 inch trim bit and have used it for years.

I think your approach sounds fine.

A band saw duplicating pin would really help by making the cuts fool proof and reduce the amount needed to be routed. I think the glue in the plywood would be the hardest on the bit, so getting that to a small consistent offset would be best for the bit.

http://www.rakuten.com/prod/bandsaw-duplicating-pin-set-by-peachtree-woodworking-pw1770/227994094.html
EDIT:
Hmmm, Rocker doesn t seem to carry it anymore.

- RobS888


-- Bill, Yo!......in Brooklyn & Steel City :)

View builtinbkyn's profile

builtinbkyn

2982 posts in 1507 days


#9 posted 02-22-2017 02:12 PM

Duplicate

-- Bill, Yo!......in Brooklyn & Steel City :)

View 000's profile

000

2859 posts in 1466 days


#10 posted 02-22-2017 02:25 PM

Bill, your not crazy

Sometimes we all don t read the question before answering…

- RobS888


Thanks guys I guess I should clarify. They are curvy shapes, definitely not “squares.” I was giving dimensions roughly to estimate how much life each bit would have cutting these. Ive updated the original post to reflect that.

- huyz

Sometimes we all don’t read the replies before answering! :)

Have you thought about using a shaper.
If you had one you wouldn’t need to band saw them first, you would need a good jig to hold them though.
If your doing hundreds I think I would consider it.

View builtinbkyn's profile

builtinbkyn

2982 posts in 1507 days


#11 posted 02-22-2017 02:39 PM

Thanks Jbay ;) Actually after having my first cup of coffee this morning, I think the OP may have said “pieces” and not “squares”. It was late when I read the post and replied. Watched the two hour season finale of The Treasure of Oak Island late on my DVR. Ah well, in any of the above cases, it seems like a lot of tedious work :O

-- Bill, Yo!......in Brooklyn & Steel City :)

View sawdustdad's profile

sawdustdad

379 posts in 1451 days


#12 posted 02-22-2017 03:48 PM

To attempt to answer the OPs question, the life of the bit depends on a lot of variables including quality of the bit itself, and how it’s used. A solid carbide 1/4 inch bit should be able to cut several hundred feet of 3/4 inch plywood without dulling enough to dramatically affecting the cut.

-- Murphy's Carpentry Corollary #3: Half of all boards cut to a specific length will be too short.

View bonesbr549's profile

bonesbr549

1584 posts in 3633 days


#13 posted 02-22-2017 03:52 PM

If you have a lot of them to do, you may want to shop for a cnc shop to cut them for you. If you have your patter already and can be done with single tooling, should not cost too much. Your times worth something. If not, get a long top bearing bit, stack em with double sided tape and cut em in multiples. I did that with my wine rack holders for my wine cabinets i make till i got the cnc.

Good luck.

-- Sooner or later Liberals run out of other people's money.

View waho6o9's profile

waho6o9

8804 posts in 3143 days


#14 posted 02-22-2017 03:57 PM

I’d get the Whiteside router bit as it’s on sale. Good luck on your endeavors.

http://www.woodpeck.com/whitesideultimatetrimbit.html?_bta_tid=411860746576000619741452060468799766675351288740869453891798260195044551126686763688219&_bta_c=20rktedf9e5g18na1mqmve1mzs87s

Whiteside Ultimate Trim Bit – Combination
$193.11 $139.99 Sale!
4UDC9112
7/8” Diameter x 1-1/8” Cut Length x 1/2” Shank
Quantity

View Loren's profile

Loren

10477 posts in 4214 days


#15 posted 02-22-2017 04:00 PM

pin router.

They are copy machines and the right tool
for the job.

If the curves are mild, you can consider investing
in a small shaper and using a rub collar
and cutter to cut to the template. The
larger od of a shaper cutter makes a
cleaner cut.

Just be advised that this is likely to be a
tedious, dusty exercise.

View GR8HUNTER's profile

GR8HUNTER

6710 posts in 1279 days


#16 posted 02-22-2017 04:01 PM

GOOD LUCK :<))

-- Tony---- Reinholds,Pa.------ REMEMBER TO ALWAYS HAVE FUN

View MrRon's profile

MrRon

5787 posts in 3810 days


#17 posted 02-22-2017 04:29 PM

Does it have to be plywood? A solid wood would be kinder to router bits. CNC will cost you more; they have to pass the cost of bits and sharpening on to the customer along with labor and machine depreciation. Either way, it will cost you about the same.

View papadan's profile

papadan

3584 posts in 3935 days


#18 posted 02-22-2017 04:46 PM

Yo Bill, we answered the original post just right. The OP came back and changed the information on us. As for doing this job, one good bit will handle it and not need sharpening. It will need cleaning several times to remove the pitch and glue that will build up and keep it from cutting!

View builtinbkyn's profile

builtinbkyn

2982 posts in 1507 days


#19 posted 02-22-2017 05:01 PM

Here’s an inexpensive way of turning a regular router table setup into a pin router. Had to look up what a pin router is. Never heard of it :) MLCS Daisy Pin Router


pin router.

They are copy machines and the right tool
for the job.

If the curves are mild, you can consider investing
in a small shaper and using a rub collar
and cutter to cut to the template. The
larger od of a shaper cutter makes a
cleaner cut.

Just be advised that this is likely to be a
tedious, dusty exercise.

- Loren


-- Bill, Yo!......in Brooklyn & Steel City :)

View 000's profile

000

2859 posts in 1466 days


#20 posted 02-22-2017 05:12 PM

I used to have a CR Onsrud Pin Router. How well it would do would depend on the size of pin router.
There not much more than a router table with the bearing above the table.
Very good for plunging up through openings, but other that that, it’s just a router.

View r33tc0w's profile

r33tc0w

175 posts in 1050 days


#21 posted 02-22-2017 05:23 PM

Check with a local sign company who does dimensional signage – they can set up vector files to trace out the shapes you want and route it on their table.

I’m out of New Orleans and can manufacture this for you if you’re interested in getting a price. How many 7×7 on what type of plywood?

-- Matthew 13:53-58

View huyz's profile

huyz

58 posts in 1427 days


#22 posted 02-22-2017 05:55 PM

Thanks for the replies everyone.


Check with a local sign company who does dimensional signage – they can set up vector files to trace out the shapes you want and route it on their table.

I m out of New Orleans and can manufacture this for you if you re interested in getting a price. How many 7×7 on what type of plywood?

- r33tc0w

Maybe 200-400 pieces cut on 3/4” birch ply. What kind of pricing can you do?

View Bill_Steele's profile

Bill_Steele

606 posts in 2298 days


#23 posted 02-22-2017 06:14 PM

I think the bandsaw to pattern routing approach sounds viable—especially if you don’t need them in hurry AND you don’t mind the hours of repetition.

I used to get ShopNotes and remember a project in one of the magazines for a bandsaw pattern cutting jig—not sure if that will help. It does NOT flush trim, but if your template was a little bigger than your desired final dimensions—it might get you to where you need to be. I can get the issue number if you want.

I think I have seen flush sanding drums for the drill press. That might help.

I have had good luck with the Whiteside spiral flush trimming bits. I have both of these:
https://www.amazon.com/Whiteside-Router-Bits-RFT2100-Diameter/dp/B000HPYOJ6/ref=pd_sim_469_1?_encoding=UTF8&psc=1&refRID=E7XZ3244CH6VGGVA945J

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B000M35UWI/ref=oh_aui_detailpage_o06_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1

I would suggest getting a bit with a 1/2” shank and at least a 1” cutting length. If you decide to stack the parts you’ll need a longer cutting length. I like the compression bits, but the price is steep.

I often use pattern cutting in my projects. I typically use double stick tape (I like golf grip tape) to hold the template to the work piece. Here’s a good approach (works well for corners) http://toolify.ca/project/corner-radius-templates/. The “wings” on the template make it self aligning and easy to apply the template with no tape. This approach does work well for a corner profile—not sure how well it can be adapted to a larger profile or odd shapes.

Whatever you decide, you must come up with an accurate, repeatable process. Please let us know what approach/process you decide on. Best of luck.

View RobS888's profile

RobS888

2620 posts in 2411 days


#24 posted 02-22-2017 07:45 PM



Bill, your not crazy
Sometimes we all don t read the question before answering…

- RobS888

Thanks guys I guess I should clarify. They are curvy shapes, definitely not “squares.” I was giving dimensions roughly to estimate how much life each bit would have cutting these. Ive updated the original post to reflect that.

- huyz

Sometimes we all don t read the replies before answering! :)

Have you thought about using a shaper.
If you had one you wouldn t need to band saw them first, you would need a good jig to hold them though.
If your doing hundreds I think I would consider it.

- jbay


Count me in all I guess.

-- I always knew gun nuts where afraid of something, just never thought popcorn was on the list.

View Carloz's profile

Carloz

1147 posts in 1158 days


#25 posted 02-27-2017 05:16 AM

When I was in the 3rd grade I got a scroll saw for my birthday. Some older guy asked me to make him hundreds of curvy shaped uniform pieces from plywood, oval from one side. After about 20 I got very bored with the repetetive work so I clamped all pieces together and cut off corners with a hand saw and rounded them with a rasp. Finished the whole job in 30 minutes that otherwise would take me days.
Likewise in your case you can stack as many pieces as fits into your bandsaw and cut them all at once. If the shape is convex and not overly complex you can use other tools to process piece in larger groups.

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