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Craftsman 113 Contrator Saw

by BigAL46
posted 02-14-2017 02:14 PM


24 replies so far

View johnstoneb's profile

johnstoneb

3089 posts in 2470 days


#1 posted 02-14-2017 02:32 PM

How much so called warp. You can see .001 under a straight edge. Exactly how square are you trying to get. Wood moves over time, several thousandths is not excessive. Most tablesaws allow .010 error and that will not affect what you are trying to do with wood. I think you need to forget the enginerring and try to make some projects and actually see if these problems actually affect the outcome.

I had a 113 for a loong time put a T2 fence on it and it was a very good saw after that. Don’t know if the table was flat as I never checked it. The blade was at 90 to the table and the fence was square to the blade That is all I ever needed.

-- Bruce, Boise, ID

View JayT's profile

JayT

6106 posts in 2508 days


#2 posted 02-14-2017 02:39 PM

I was going to type a longer reply, but then read Bruce’s. He nailed it.

All of the gnashing of teeth is about the saw and assumptions that it may be a problem, but there is no actual evidence, yet. In other words, use the saw and come back if there actually is an issue with the wood projects. I’m betting it’ll be fine.

I built many projects using a 113 saw with upgraded fence. I never checked the table with a precision straight edge, but it most likely was a bit off. So what? The projects came out fine. I sold the table saw and now use a band saw for rips and clean up the cuts with hand planes. Though very close, I guarantee those edges are not perfect 90 degrees. Yet still no problems. Because wood moves and compresses, you have more margin for error than if working with other materials.

-- In theory, there is no difference between theory and practice. In practice, there is.

View GR8HUNTER's profile (online now)

GR8HUNTER

5683 posts in 1010 days


#3 posted 02-14-2017 02:53 PM

DITTO ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
A good craftsmen …can hide his mistakes …..LOL :<))

Welcome 2 LJ”s

-- Tony---- Reinholds,Pa.------ REMEMBER TO ALWAYS HAVE FUN

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smitdog

419 posts in 2403 days


#4 posted 02-14-2017 03:54 PM

I got a 113 from Craigslist on the cheap and never thought to check the table flatness just like you. Sounds almost identical to my story, trued everything up and had it cutting very well until I tried to cut a wide panel of ply on it and I realized the right side of the table was way too high. After taking everything apart and examining things I found that all the webbing underneath the right miter slot was cracked and the table to the right of the slot went WAY uphill, like 1/8” gap under a straight edge uphill! I don’t know what the previous owner did to bend it like that but there was nothing I could do to fix it.

So my solution was to cut the darn thing off! The table was flat as could be from the left side of the table to the right miter slot, so I figured what the heck… A short time later and a couple cutting disks and I was back in business. I lost the use of the right slot but I attached both cast iron wings onto the left side of the saw and attached an extension table to the right side. The saw still works great and once I get my old PM66 I scored restored and running I’ll still keep my frankensaw with a crosscut blade or a dado set in it.

If you find it won’t work as-is then don’t be afraid to get crazy with it, if you try and fail worst case scenario is you buy a new top for it.
Good luck!

-- Jarrett - Mount Vernon, Ohio

View dschlic1's profile

dschlic1

446 posts in 2267 days


#5 posted 02-14-2017 07:01 PM

My 113 table has a dip of about 1/32” of an inch in the center close to the blade. After several years of using the saw, I have not had any issues with it.

View dhazelton's profile

dhazelton

2835 posts in 2594 days


#6 posted 02-14-2017 07:48 PM

Craftsman vs. Starrett – Craftsman will always lose.

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HokieKen

8630 posts in 1436 days


#7 posted 02-14-2017 08:00 PM



Craftsman vs. Starrett – Craftsman will always lose.

- dhazelton

My thoughts exactly :-)) That table was never ground to any tolerance that wouldn’t stick out like a sore thumb against a Starrett straight edge. The best next step, IMHO, is to make some cuts with the new fence and see what happens. Yeah, there may be some angular error and yeah, it’ll change with boards of different widths. But you’ll never get any kind of meaningful measurments from the table. Make some rip cuts on some fairly thick boards and measure the boards.

There’s a good chance you’ll find you don’t have a problem. But, if you find out otherwise, use some feeler gauges and determine just how much gap there is under the straight edge and update us. There’s always hand-scraping for small areas requiring just a little material removal. It’s tedious but doable if you have a Starrett straight-edge to use as a reference.

-- Kenny, SW VA, Go Hokies!!!

View BigAL46's profile

BigAL46

10 posts in 765 days


#8 posted 02-16-2017 04:47 PM

Thanks to all who took the time to reply.

I have not made a decision on whether to keep the saw, put the new fence on and and be happy but I am leaning that way at least until I can ascertain whether the problem is really affecting the work I want to do. I am the kind of guy who will always wonder whether or not the results I have produced would have been better if this problem did not exist.

-Al-

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runswithscissors

2987 posts in 2322 days


#9 posted 02-18-2017 04:54 AM

Should you decide the issue matters, one solution would be to remove the top and have a machine shop mill it for you. I have no idea what that would cost, or whether it would be worth it, but maybe something to consider.

-- I admit to being an adrenaline junky; fortunately, I'm very easily frightened

View TheFridge's profile

TheFridge

10844 posts in 1783 days


#10 posted 02-18-2017 05:05 AM

After looking into the same thing I tell you, it is not worth regrinding. I had a cheap quote of 400$.

Make some cuts and measure them. Get a 20”?x 48”ish piece of ply and cut it down a 1/4 at a time and measure maybe?

-- Shooting down the walls of heartache. Bang bang. I am. The warrior.

View EEngineer's profile

EEngineer

1120 posts in 3911 days


#11 posted 02-18-2017 01:05 PM

About 8 1/2 years ago, I went through exactly what you are going through. I acquired an old Craftsman 113 saw, restored it, replaced the fence, trued it up and have been using it happily ever since. I have put a lot of board-feet through this thing since then. In fact, I just refinished my kitchen and used it to do some finicky trimming on premade cabinets where things like a deviation from right angles or straightness of cut would have shown up like a sore thumb.

It just never occurred to me to check the flatness of the table. I don’t have a Starrett – instead I use an ancient Popular Mechanics metal yard-stick that I inherited from someplace. So I laid that across the table and – waddaya know! – my table has a dip in the center, also! Eyeballing it, it might be almost 1/16”! I guess after 40-50 years of supporting the motor and trunnion weight the cast-iron table has sagged a little.

Am I gonna lose sleep over this? NO! I’ll just continue to use the saw to make drawers, shelves, dadoes and cut up sheet goods like I have for the last 8 1/2 years.

I swear, there must be a lot of frustrated machinists working wood lately. In metal, a few thousandths here and there can make a huge difference. Much of that just doesn’t matter in woodworking!

-- "Find out what you cannot do and then go do it!"

View BigAL46's profile

BigAL46

10 posts in 765 days


#12 posted 02-18-2017 03:49 PM

Ok. I put the straight edge across the table with extensions in place and measured a gap of 0.043”. I removed the extensions and measured just the table and got about half that much or 0.21” I obtained these measurements by stacking a feeler gauge under the straight edge.

View jimintx's profile

jimintx

900 posts in 1882 days


#13 posted 02-18-2017 04:46 PM

Hello Al, from another Texan, here. Welcome to a good place on the web to talk about wood work and shop stuff and quite a few other things as well. One of the many things that make this site great is that it is so easy to post a picture here (compared to some other sites I go to). If you can, show us a picture of your set up.

I began table saw use with one of those Sears saws, purchased by my Dad is circa 1964, or so. I used it up until the turn of the century, so call that three+ decades. It is in use now, as far as I still know, by a hoe improvement contractor that bartered with me for it. It had the sort of irregularities you are seeing, and those tolerances were fine.

Notably, my Dad was a master machinist and he was always checking things with machinists tools, but he had grown up in a family of wood workers, sawyers, and carpenters, so he did understand the tolerances and how to accommodate them. He instructed me accordingly. For example, I learned at an early age to “leave the line” when making a cut ;-D

I suspect you meant to type in post #12 that you measured the gap on the table itself at 0.021”. I can’t imagine that variance form perfectly planar will effect your work. I would say you have put together a good table saw, so go make some sawdust with it.

See ya around here!

-- Jim, Houston, TX

View BigAL46's profile

BigAL46

10 posts in 765 days


#14 posted 02-26-2017 03:55 PM

Screw it! I bought a Grizzly G0691.

Although the saw has not been delivered yet, I have one complaint. Curbside delivery is all they will do. Had to pay $35 for a tailgate drop. In other words the truck driver will not even unload it off the truck on to the ground unless you pay extra. Since it weighs over 500 lbs, I am having to hire a fellow with a Bobcat that has fork attachments to carry it about 250 yds back to the shop. I’ll take some pictures and post them when it turns up.

Anybody wanna buy a refurbished Craftsman 113 for $350? I replaced the trunions, added new knobs (it had no knobs when purchased), precision machined pulleys, link belt, and belt guard. I also replaced the arbor bearings. I found a new stand since the one that came with it was bent. You can have the old stand and all the spare parts. I paid $300 for it and with upgrades I have close to $500 in it. You all know what’s wrong with it. I’m keeping my new blade. You can have the blade that came with it!

BTW: I have a completely new, never installed Accusquare M01050 fence system, never installed for $290, you pay the shipping cost. Will have to have new box made for the rails. Looks like really nice fence.

-Al in Oakalla-

View bandit571's profile

bandit571

22392 posts in 2981 days


#15 posted 02-28-2017 05:38 AM

My old 113 saw. I found out that IF I added a strip of 1x scrap alongside the fence, I could add a shim as needed to keep the side straight. Fence had slots to add a wood fence to it, for use with dado blades. I usually just left it in place for other tasks. 2 screws, a piece of pine 1×3, and maybe a shim ( if needed)....couple dollars.

Same with this thing. I could shim as needed to get it perfect o the blade and fence. I could add longer pieces as needed. Not a big deal.

No longer have the room for it, sold it about last spring. Bought the saw new at Sears back in the 80s…

-- A Planer? I'M the planer, this is what I use

View BigAL46's profile

BigAL46

10 posts in 765 days


#16 posted 02-28-2017 06:08 PM


Screw it! I bought a Grizzly G0691.

Although the saw has not been delivered yet, I have one complaint. Curbside delivery is all they will do. Had to pay $35 for a tailgate drop.

Darwin in action. You are too stupid to make what you had work. $1900 later and it still isn t your problem, is it?

Sad, very sad.

- EEngineer

I cannot see that I have given you cause to make comments like this and I consider you rude.

You have no idea what I been through with this old saw, the work I have put into it and the frustration finding something new wrong with it at every turn. Many other changes and upgrades have been applied to the saw before I ever came to this forum. I have simply reached my limit with it and decided to walk another path. I came to the forum for advice and fellowship and instead I receive condescending criticism from someone I don’t even know and who doesn’t know me. You’re calling me stupid and I have no way to gauge your your knowledge and abilities. You may be and probably are far more stupid than I am. Please establish some credibility with me before you label me again.

And yes, I believe that full and final delivery of any product you purchase of this type should involve the vendor setting the thing in place, especially one this expensive. As a manufacturer and vendor of something like a tablesaw I would want to know that installation were done correctly to negate potential liabilities. If you cannot find something positive to say, I would prefer your not saying anything at all especially to any posts I make. I have encountered others like you on forums such as this. Those who think they are somehow superior to all others whose ideas are different from their own. [removed]

-Al in Oakalla-

View TheFridge's profile

TheFridge

10844 posts in 1783 days


#17 posted 02-28-2017 06:19 PM

When the box truck dropped my bandsaw off we wheeled the pallet jack to my shop door.

-- Shooting down the walls of heartache. Bang bang. I am. The warrior.

View Ardubya's profile

Ardubya

53 posts in 1442 days


#18 posted 02-28-2017 07:33 PM


Darwin in action. You are too stupid to make what you had work. $1900 later and it still isn t your problem, is it?

Sad, very sad.

- EEngineer

Hey EEngineer, WTF is the matter with you? This forum is for exchanging knowledge, assistance and useful information. If you have nothing constructive to offer, you don’t belong here. You need to go back and familiarize yourself with the “posting rules.”

View BigAL46's profile

BigAL46

10 posts in 765 days


#19 posted 02-28-2017 07:51 PM



When the box truck dropped my bandsaw off we wheeled the pallet jack to my shop door.

- TheFridge

I wish something like were possible but I can’t rely on the possibility. I will have AT LEAST 100 yds of gravel drive way and then AT LEAST 100 yds of irregular pasture land before reaching the shop door. I really need to acquire some method for moving heavy stuff around my little Texas ranch.

View bandit571's profile

bandit571

22392 posts in 2981 days


#20 posted 02-28-2017 08:25 PM

Bobcat with forks…

-- A Planer? I'M the planer, this is what I use

View TheFridge's profile

TheFridge

10844 posts in 1783 days


#21 posted 02-28-2017 09:23 PM

I think it’s EEngineers time of the month.

Plywood sled and 4 wheeler? Lawnmower? Truck?

-- Shooting down the walls of heartache. Bang bang. I am. The warrior.

View JayT's profile

JayT

6106 posts in 2508 days


#22 posted 02-28-2017 09:30 PM

Congrats on the new saw. The 113 could probably have been made to work, but you are moving up a couple levels with the 691. Nothing wrong with that, use it in good health.

I really need to acquire some method for moving heavy stuff around my little Texas ranch.

- BigAL46

I’m thinking hovercraft. Works great over uneven terrain, effortless movement and who doesn’t want to play with a hovercraft, right?

-- In theory, there is no difference between theory and practice. In practice, there is.

View Bill White's profile

Bill White

5181 posts in 4258 days


#23 posted 02-28-2017 09:58 PM

A comment that refers to you as being “stupid” is WAY out of reason.
I just don’t see that as being constructive.
Best wishes on your new purchase.
Bill

-- [email protected]

View JollyGreen67's profile

JollyGreen67

1676 posts in 3060 days


#24 posted 02-28-2017 11:47 PM

Sic ‘em Al ! :o]

-- When I was a kid I wanted to be older . . . . . this CRAP is not what I expected ! RIP 09/08/2018

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