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View Karda's profile

grider question

by Karda
posted 02-14-2017 04:51 AM


35 replies so far

View TheFridge's profile

TheFridge

10859 posts in 2049 days


#1 posted 02-14-2017 04:59 AM

8” is nice

Slow speed is preferable

White wheels are good

I have the same set and they are sufficient.

-- Shooting down the walls of heartache. Bang bang. I am. The warrior.

View BenDupre's profile

BenDupre

723 posts in 1051 days


#2 posted 02-14-2017 05:08 AM

Home Depot online has a 8 in slow speed grinder with the white wheels. Its branded Wen. It sells for about $80. I replaced my HF 6 in grinder. Kept burning the edge on the 3450 speed. The new one works much better and has a 1750 unloaded speed.

-- The problem with communication is the illusion that it has occurred. – George Bernard Shaw

View wuddoc's profile

wuddoc

353 posts in 4280 days


#3 posted 02-14-2017 05:29 AM

I agree with the other LJ’s on all points and if a grinder is what you need/want then go for it. There is an alternative to think about. Skip the grinder at HF for $54 & HF lathe tools for $65 and consider a set of rotating tip carbide lathe tool(s). This means no grinding, honing or setting correct bevel.

This is the grizzly page on those types of tools but you may find them at less cost somewhere else.

http://grizzly.com/catalog/2017/main/157?p=157

-- Wuddoc

View woodbutcherbynight's profile

woodbutcherbynight

5975 posts in 2972 days


#4 posted 02-14-2017 05:39 AM

I bought a Tormek many years ago, expensive but worth it to me and many chisels have been sharpened with it over the years. Now we could get all kinds of drama started saying it is the best but Grizzly has something that is much cheaper that may work like the Tormek.
Link for Tormek
Link for Grizzly Version

-- Live to tell the stories, they sound better that way.

View MrUnix's profile

MrUnix

7533 posts in 2762 days


#5 posted 02-14-2017 06:18 AM

I’ll throw in another alternative. A belt sander will serve double duty – you can sharpen all your chisels and lathe tools on it, as well as actually use it as a sander for your woodworking projects :) For about $50 you can get a belt/disc sander from HF, or even cheaper on the used market if you keep your eye out for one. I have several grinders in the shop, and the only time I use them for woodturning tools is when I want to grind a completely new profile on one of them, which requires removing a lot of metal. The rest of the time, all sharpening is done on the belt sander.

A dedicated sharpening system may make sense in a professional shop, or where a lot of production work is being done constantly… but for the average woodturner in a home shop environment, not so much IMHO.

Cheers,
Brad

-- Brad in FL - In Dog I trust... everything else is questionable

View Karda's profile

Karda

1836 posts in 1116 days


#6 posted 02-14-2017 06:43 AM

I have been considering carbide tools what are the minimum tools I would need to get started. I looked at the grinder, it is a nice one. can you use the sharpening jigs with it

View Karda's profile

Karda

1836 posts in 1116 days


#7 posted 02-14-2017 07:20 AM

I haven’t thought of a belt sander, can you get very fine belts for them. I ll take a look at them thanks

View BenDupre's profile

BenDupre

723 posts in 1051 days


#8 posted 02-14-2017 12:34 PM



I have been considering carbide tools what are the minimum tools I would need to get started. I looked at the grinder, it is a nice one. can you use the sharpening jigs with it

- Karda

If you want to try carbide tools look at rockler. They have a set of three “mini” carbides which they sell for $189 however if you are patient they go on sale for $99. I watched this happen twice and the second time i jumped on it. Later i added a fourth tool the SR1 which is a small portion of a 2 in radius. So far i have learned i can do a lot with the carbides and i love them but i still use my other tools frequently. I probably need more technique and prractice but i still find it easuer to rough with a roughing gouge and roll beads with gouge. The carbides are really good for scraping cuts. I sometimes do my final passes with them to smooth things out.

Good luck!

-- The problem with communication is the illusion that it has occurred. – George Bernard Shaw

View OSU55's profile

OSU55

2450 posts in 2552 days


#9 posted 02-14-2017 01:29 PM

If you want to try carbide make your own tools, provided you have general shop experience. I have some listed in my projects, and under reviews are Capn Eddies inserts. I dont recommend carbide – hss is much sharper and works better once you learn how to sharpen and use tools.

For sharpening a 6” grinder can work, but the thinner wheels are a challenge. The WEN 8” would be my choice. Problem with belt sander is having the right belt on when needed – for sanding or sharpening, and you will need to rig up a way to use a jig.

I can verify the red handled HF tools are good for spindle use (the scrapers are a bit thin), I still use the spindle gouges and skews. Take a look at Benjamins Best tools – a bit more $ vs HF but worth it. Set of spindle gouges, 1” skew, diamond parting tool, set of bowl gouges if you plan to make any, and their ultimate scraping tool is pretty good after you grind/sharpen the hss inserts.

Next is work holding. PSI has good drive and live centers, as well as Barracuda scroll chucks. A spindle tap and glue blocks can be used vs a chuck.

View HorizontalMike's profile

HorizontalMike

7804 posts in 3477 days


#10 posted 02-14-2017 01:45 PM



I ll throw in another alternative. A belt sander will serve double duty – you can sharpen all your chisels and lathe tools on it, as well as actually use it as a sander for your woodworking projects :) For about $50 you can get a belt/disc sander from HF, or even cheaper on the used market if you keep your eye out for one. I have several grinders in the shop, and the only time I use them for woodturning tools is when I want to grind a completely new profile on one of them, which requires removing a lot of metal. The rest of the time, all sharpening is done on the belt sander.
A dedicated sharpening system may make sense in a professional shop, or where a lot of production work is being done constantly… but for the average woodturner in a home shop environment, not so much IMHO.
Cheers,
Brad
- MrUnix

And here is how to convert the HF sander to the above:
http://lumberjocks.com/reviews/3179

-- HorizontalMike -- "Woodpeckers understand..."

View Karda's profile

Karda

1836 posts in 1116 days


#11 posted 02-14-2017 05:49 PM

this is a bit overwhelming. Good as carbide sound I have more faith in good steel blades just not my sharpening skills but that can change. My grinder is a throw together but it works at least it did till I buggered the threads on the arbor shaft trying to change threads know what to do there.

View BenDupre's profile

BenDupre

723 posts in 1051 days


#12 posted 02-14-2017 05:52 PM

Learning to turn = learning to sharpen. Dull tools = dangerous tools. I am still learning.

-- The problem with communication is the illusion that it has occurred. – George Bernard Shaw

View Karda's profile

Karda

1836 posts in 1116 days


#13 posted 02-14-2017 06:31 PM

Mike I looked at the sander option and conversion I think I might go that way if I can’t fix my grinder. It is a throw together but it works and it is slower, 1140 RPM motor. but I buggered the threads on the arbor shaft here are pics of it

View RichCMD's profile

RichCMD

427 posts in 2504 days


#14 posted 02-14-2017 06:42 PM

I have both HSS tools and carbide tools. They do not cut the same way, and they are not used the same way. I do most of my turning with the HSS tools. However, of late I find myself mostly using the carbide when I am turning pens.

I started with a slow speed grinder with white wheels, and then last year I upgraded to CBN wheels. They were pricey, but I love them. I also have the Oneway Vari-Grind jig and the Raptor Set Up Tools. This set up gives me repeatability, which helps a lot in building the muscle memory for using a tool.

The basics for HSS would probably be a roughing gouge, a spindle gouge, a bowl gouge, and a parting tool. A minimum set of carbide tools would probably have a square cutter, a round cutter, maybe a detail cutter, and a parting tool. A full face shield and a dust mask are also pretty much essential items.

-- Ride the bevel!

View LeeMills's profile

LeeMills

686 posts in 1864 days


#15 posted 02-14-2017 06:43 PM

I can’t tell from the pics if the arbor is one piece or in sections. If it is in sections you may just need new “ends” such as this.
http://www.wttool.com/index/page/product/product_id/71/category_id/13079/product_name/RDX+Motor+Work+Arbors

-- We cannot solve our problems with the same thinking we used when we created them. Albert Einstein

View Skatergirl46's profile

Skatergirl46

17 posts in 1160 days


#16 posted 02-14-2017 06:49 PM

I use a slow speed grinder and the white aluminum oxide wheels presently. I plan to get a pair of CBN wheels soon.

-- I'm happiest when I have wheels on my feet or sawdust in my hair.

View HorizontalMike's profile

HorizontalMike

7804 posts in 3477 days


#17 posted 02-14-2017 08:17 PM



Mike I looked at the sander option and conversion I think I might go that way if I can t fix my grinder. It is a throw together but it works and it is slower, 1140 RPM motor. but I buggered the threads on the arbor shaft here are pics of it
- Karda

The biggest thing I see, is that you need to build toolrest(s) to help you hold your angle with the tool being sharpened. Freehand just won’t do it.

Always remember that you want the sharpener to ALWAYS be turning/running away from you, so that you won’t get a kick-back that would throw the tool at you.

-- HorizontalMike -- "Woodpeckers understand..."

View BenDupre's profile

BenDupre

723 posts in 1051 days


#18 posted 02-14-2017 08:45 PM

Mike
I have never used a grinder backwards like that. Does it make a difference?

Ben

-- The problem with communication is the illusion that it has occurred. – George Bernard Shaw

View HorizontalMike's profile

HorizontalMike

7804 posts in 3477 days


#19 posted 02-14-2017 08:58 PM

If the wheel is spinning away from you, then that will be the safest. Always wear eye protection as well.

I know, I know, there are always those out there that say it doesn’t matter, but IMO it does matter. If for no other reason than having your tool gouge into the spinning wheel could put some serious damage to the grinder disc if nothing else. To me, better safe than sorry (whenever I can).

-- HorizontalMike -- "Woodpeckers understand..."

View Kirk650's profile

Kirk650

676 posts in 1311 days


#20 posted 02-14-2017 09:42 PM

I say to get the slow speed grinder with the white wheel and spend the money to get the Veritas tool rest for grinders. It’s super adjustable.

View Karda's profile

Karda

1836 posts in 1116 days


#21 posted 02-14-2017 10:30 PM

ok can I get the wheel running away from me by reversing the motor so the wheel is on my right.

I can t tell from the pics if the arbor is one piece or in sections. If it is in sections you may just need new “ends” such as this.
http://www.wttool.com/index/page/product/product_id/71/category_id/13079/product_name/RDX+Motor+Work+Arbors thank I never thought of arbor extentions, that would be cheaper than having the shaft re threaded
- LeeMills

i have found plans for tool rests made for sharpening turning tools. What grit wheel should I use 80 or 100, 3/4 or 1” thanks Mike

View Kelly's profile

Kelly

2531 posts in 3507 days


#22 posted 02-14-2017 10:49 PM

If you ever get ambitious, you could build your own system. All you need are pillow blocks, shafts, a few goodies to secure wheels and a industrial sewing machine motor (1 hp DC, reversible).

The advantages of this are:

1) The motor can be reversed, which has the same advantages being able to reverse a lathe does;
2) You can run the grinder at speeds of from zero to about 2,500 RPM, so you can grind nearly anything with less chance of burning;
3) You can set it up for two, three or four wheels.

Mine makes grinding things that required a delicate hand so easy it’s indescribable.

Keep in mind, the frame for all this does not have to be built from iron.

Oh, and down the road and regarding your high speed steels, I second the CBN’s. Before them, I had a lot of dust. After them, I still do, it is only the steel from the tool, rather than the tool and the wheel.

Also, since you’ve, voluntarily, thrown yourself into the lathe vortex, you can look at the Wolverine set of sharpening jibs for gouges, skews and other things (you can look into making your own of these too. Captain Eddy has good info, for example). If nothing else, they are wonderful for re-profiling knives.

View Karda's profile

Karda

1836 posts in 1116 days


#23 posted 02-14-2017 10:53 PM

I’m not that handy besides once i bought that stuff I might as well buy a grinder

View HorizontalMike's profile

HorizontalMike

7804 posts in 3477 days


#24 posted 02-15-2017 01:15 AM

Karda,
On my belt sharpener I only need 180-grit belts tops. I do buff with a buffing wheel with 10,000-grit polish though. I could actually get away with NO polishing as far as performance. All I know is that you need much LESS/LOWER grit than what you would if sharpening by hand.

-- HorizontalMike -- "Woodpeckers understand..."

View LeeMills's profile

LeeMills

686 posts in 1864 days


#25 posted 02-15-2017 02:19 AM

Only my opinion but…
For grinding I always have the wheel rotating towards me. For gouges you stop as soon as you see sparks running down the flute. With the wheel reversed you don’t know exactly when it is sharp and tend to grind away more steel than necessary.
I do have a Cratex wheel (rubberized) in one location and of course it must run in reverse to keep from digging in the same as a sanding belt.

-- We cannot solve our problems with the same thinking we used when we created them. Albert Einstein

View Karda's profile

Karda

1836 posts in 1116 days


#26 posted 02-15-2017 05:31 AM

ill try grinding awat from me since I just turned the motor around. I don’t need the adapters I tried to get the nuts on they went on rough but they threaded. What grit and width wheel do i want. Thanks mike

View LeeMills's profile

LeeMills

686 posts in 1864 days


#27 posted 02-15-2017 01:36 PM

Most 6” are 3/4” width and 8” are 1” width. I think the 8” would be better if they fit your setup and still have room to add a jig underneath if you want to. I feel the 1” makes it a little easier to sharpen wider skews (or other flat tools). Mine are 6” and they work but I have never changed my shopmade setup to handle 8”. As far as grit mine are about 80-100, Klingspore just called them medium.

-- We cannot solve our problems with the same thinking we used when we created them. Albert Einstein

View Karda's profile

Karda

1836 posts in 1116 days


#28 posted 02-15-2017 05:13 PM

thanks for the wheel suggestions, if I can change my motor and arbor pullys I will decrease the speed to about 760 RPMs is that to slow

View Ken90712's profile

Ken90712

17794 posts in 3751 days


#29 posted 02-15-2017 06:41 PM

I had a wet grinder and a famous wood turner told me get rid of it, waste of time for turners. He told me buy a slow speed 8 inch grinder and a CBN wheel. I bought the wolverine system as well. I can sharpen any tool in less than a min. He said the biggest problem with new turners is dull tools and if you can sharpen quickly you will do more often. He was right amazing. A little investment up front but my bowls have come out great for a new turner.

-- Ken, "Everyday above ground is a good day!"

View Karda's profile

Karda

1836 posts in 1116 days


#30 posted 02-15-2017 08:32 PM

what is a slow speed for an 8”, is slow bad, it would come in handy for honing my carving tools. I have heared a lot about CBN wheels what are they. I have also heard MDF is good. thanks Mike

View Tennessee's profile

Tennessee

2901 posts in 3077 days


#31 posted 02-15-2017 08:49 PM

I have a 1750 variable speed 8” Delta grinder with a Wolvering jig on it, and it works great. But guess what I use most of the time for touchups while actually turning??

With a coupon, around $45 bucks.

-- Tsunami Guitars and Custom Woodworking, Cleveland, TN

View Karda's profile

Karda

1836 posts in 1116 days


#32 posted 02-15-2017 08:55 PM

may be later, i have been thinking about one but didn’t think I would use thanks for the remider

View LeeMills's profile

LeeMills

686 posts in 1864 days


#33 posted 02-15-2017 09:03 PM

Most low speed grinders are about 1750; you stated yours is 1100+ so you are already 2/3 the speed of a low speed. I would try it where it is. I’m not sure where slow is too slow but you still want to remove material effectively.
My wheels are the standard white but when I do replace I will probable go with the Norton 3X (blue) from all that I have heard. Everyone says the CBN’s are great and I am sure they are. I typically only need to resharpen once or twice per turning, being frugal I can’t justify the CBN for my use.

I usually just hone by hand and I would keep doing that for bench or carving tools. The MDF is use a lot for honing but it must be ran backwards. The wheel is charged with cutting paste and this would be acceptable to bench or carving tools. I do have a Cratex wheel (rubberized) in one location for honing to a wire edge and then a cloth buffing wheel in another charged with jewelers rogue. I also hone my skews and parting tools by hand because it is quicker to give them a few stokes on a diamond plate than go to my grinding station.

None of what I do may meet with your needs or expectations.

-- We cannot solve our problems with the same thinking we used when we created them. Albert Einstein

View Kelly's profile

Kelly

2531 posts in 3507 days


#34 posted 02-15-2017 10:23 PM

For sharpening in a woodworking shop, slow is never bad. It’s one of the reasons the Tormex machines sell. The only reason people go for 1750 as slow is, that’s what is available, until you build your own. You cannot change speeds on the average grinder. What you see is what you get.

Just for reference, I, generally, never take my grinder up over four hundred RPM. Once I have a knife where I need it, that speed lets me sharpen in seconds, without taking off valued HHS.

Again, if you are going to look at a pillow block approach, look into DC commercial sewing machine motors. Mine is a one horse, came with the control box, will adjust from zero to twenty-five hundred RPM, and reverses at the flip of a switch.

Reversing on a lathe is gold, because, for example, it lets you sand from the top. For a grinding station, it lets you run things that would, normally, be torn up by the blade.

Just for reference, a BRAND NEW DC sewing machine motor runs around two hundred. That’s probably about fifty to a hundred more than a good AC motor, but look what you get for the extra.


what is a slow speed for an 8”, is slow bad, it would come in handy for honing my carving tools. I have heared a lot about CBN wheels what are they. I have also heard MDF is good. thanks Mike

- Karda


View Karda's profile

Karda

1836 posts in 1116 days


#35 posted 02-15-2017 11:57 PM

thanks for your input, I will use it where it is, thanks Mike

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