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View Robert's profile

Leaving your machines running? Check this out.

by Robert
posted 02-13-2017 12:41 PM


49 replies so far

View Kelster58's profile

Kelster58

759 posts in 1102 days


#1 posted 02-13-2017 12:56 PM

Good reminder…...we all are guilty of being tired or in a hurry…...these reminders serve a wonderful purpose. Thanks for sharing.

-- K. Stone “Tell me and I forget, teach me and I may remember, involve me and I learn.” ― Benjamin Franklin

View Kelly's profile

Kelly

2531 posts in 3506 days


#2 posted 02-13-2017 05:11 PM

I run into that problem with the lathe an such when I have muffs on. Until I get off my butt and finish installing the two hundred amp service, I’m running off sixty amps. Several times, I’ve found I left, for example, one of the small collectors and the oscillating sander running while over on the sanding station and the big collector.

I’ve done that once with the jointer and a few times with the band saw.

I guess I need to make myself a rule that I MUST take my muffs off at each machine, or get crappier muffs.

View DirtyMike's profile

DirtyMike

637 posts in 1464 days


#3 posted 02-13-2017 05:27 PM

How about some lower Db rated hearing protection? I was telling my buddy last night that i sometimes do very dangerous things while wearing ear protection. The constant drone and hums from machines is the noise that gets you in a wood shop.

View 000's profile

000

2859 posts in 1461 days


#4 posted 02-13-2017 06:37 PM

I get into the shop and turn everything on, that way I don’t have to think about it. Just walk up and use it , walk away…
Used to blow a lot of breakers but I replaced them all with 60ampers and besides running a little hot they don’t break anymore.

View William Shelley's profile

William Shelley

609 posts in 2031 days


#5 posted 02-13-2017 06:41 PM



I get into the shop and turn everything on, that way I don t have to think about it. Just walk up and use it , walk away…
Used to blow a lot of breakers but I replaced them all with 60ampers and besides running a little hot they don t break anymore.

- jbay

I seriously hope this is a joke. If it’s not, this is possibly the worst advice I’ve seen on this website, and a good recipe for an electrical fire.

-- Woodworking from an engineer's perspective

View HorizontalMike's profile

HorizontalMike

7804 posts in 3476 days


#6 posted 02-13-2017 06:58 PM



I get into the shop and turn everything on, that way I don t have to think about it. Just walk up and use it , walk away…
Used to blow a lot of breakers but I replaced them all with 60ampers and besides running a little hot they don t break anymore.
- jbay

_

I seriously hope this is a joke. If it s not, this is possibly the worst advice I ve seen on this website, and a good recipe for an electrical fire.
- William Shelley

Looks like jBay, and his “input” has been removed in totality. Maybe we can all now breathe a bit easier.

-- HorizontalMike -- "Woodpeckers understand..."

View William Shelley's profile

William Shelley

609 posts in 2031 days


#7 posted 02-13-2017 07:07 PM

Just an idea but it would be interesting to add bright LED indicator lights or strips to tools that came on when the tool was operating. Would be very easy to tell what was running just by looking around the shop.

-- Woodworking from an engineer's perspective

View pintodeluxe's profile

pintodeluxe

6016 posts in 3375 days


#8 posted 02-13-2017 07:18 PM

One of the hazards of hearing protection I’m afraid. It makes us less aware of our surroundings. My kids have noise cancelling headphones, that are the worst. I guess I would qualify as “noise” because they can never hear me when I talk to them.

Good advise to turn the tool off when you walk away. I think the jointer would be the most stealthy in this regard. It has a quiet hum, and a spinning cutterhead looks very similar to a stationary one.

Even though I always turn tools off when I move to another station, I have gotten in the habit of looking for the teeth and details of the blade before I go near it. That, and I unplug the tool before blade changes or maintenance. Even on my Sawstop, I unplug before swapping blades.

-- Willie, Washington "If You Choose Not To Decide, You Still Have Made a Choice" - Rush

View 000's profile

000

2859 posts in 1461 days


#9 posted 02-13-2017 08:03 PM

Really? How could anybody think it’s not humor?

Mike, sorry, still here :>/ (get back on the breathing machine)

View Woodknack's profile

Woodknack

12945 posts in 2942 days


#10 posted 02-13-2017 08:04 PM

Nothing is safe if you aren’t mindful while doing it. When I bought my first motorcycle and old fella told me to ride like a crash was inevitable. I took his advice and to this day, every time I swing a leg over a bike I think this could be my last ride.

-- Rick M, http://thewoodknack.blogspot.com/

View ScottM's profile

ScottM

745 posts in 2709 days


#11 posted 02-13-2017 08:42 PM



Really? How could anybody think it s not humor?

- jbay

I got the humor….

View TheFridge's profile

TheFridge

10859 posts in 2048 days


#12 posted 02-13-2017 08:57 PM

I learned my lesson on dirt bikes.

Actually leaving your machines running is better for the machine. I’ll leave the saw on but that’s about it. Mainly cuz I have jointer and saw on same circuit and it’ll usually trip.

-- Shooting down the walls of heartache. Bang bang. I am. The warrior.

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Pezking7p

3268 posts in 2213 days


#13 posted 02-13-2017 08:59 PM



I get into the shop and turn everything on, that way I don t have to think about it. Just walk up and use it , walk away…
Used to blow a lot of breakers but I replaced them all with 60ampers and besides running a little hot they don t break anymore.

- jbay

lulz

-- -Dan

View William Shelley's profile

William Shelley

609 posts in 2031 days


#14 posted 02-13-2017 09:12 PM



Really? How could anybody think it s not humor?

Mike, sorry, still here :>/ (get back on the breathing machine)

- jbay

Advocating replacing breakers with higher amperage to avoid trips is never going to get a smile from me. The vast majority of people are novices with electrical work and would believe you at face value, and subsequently burn their house or shop down from an electrical fire.

-- Woodworking from an engineer's perspective

View 000's profile

000

2859 posts in 1461 days


#15 posted 02-13-2017 10:39 PM

Good thing I didn’t tell them I run a sub panel off an extension cord that plugs into my dryer outlet.

View bigblockyeti's profile

bigblockyeti

6126 posts in 2283 days


#16 posted 02-13-2017 10:59 PM

I treat everything as if it were running regardless of whether or not it actually is. A fresh set of jointer knifes can mess you up pretty good with nothing turned on. Many other sharp spinning shop machines ate capable of the same.

-- "Lack of effort will result in failure with amazing predictability" - Me

View Tony_S's profile

Tony_S

1046 posts in 3645 days


#17 posted 02-13-2017 11:39 PM



Good thing I didn t tell them I run a sub panel off an extension cord that plugs into my dryer outlet.

- jbay


That’d be great when it’s a bit cold in the shop….you could just use the extension cord to warm your hands up!

-- “Wise men speak because they have something to say; fools because they have to say something.” – Plato

View papadan's profile

papadan

3584 posts in 3930 days


#18 posted 02-13-2017 11:54 PM


Good thing I didn t tell them I run a sub panel off an extension cord that plugs into my dryer outlet.

- jbay

That d be great when it s a bit cold in the shop….you could just use the extension cord to warm your hands up!

- Tony_S


You people have NO since of humor or Creativity! His sub runs perfectly good off that dryer circuit, and the dryer exhaust is how he heats the shop! I’m too cheap to replace my little old panel, I keep everything going for 6 cents a day. That’s one penny under each of the 110 fuses and 2 under the double fuse 220 circuit for my Lincoln. I keep my welder going to touch up the crack in the frames of my saws and such. Easier to tack weld when seen then have to put the piece back in place and weld up after cutting a few more boards. Feeding time, vultures!

View papadan's profile

papadan

3584 posts in 3930 days


#19 posted 02-13-2017 11:59 PM



I treat everything as if it were running regardless of whether or not it actually is. A fresh set of jointer knifes can mess you up pretty good with nothing turned on. Many other sharp spinning shop machines ate(aRe) capable of the same.

- bigblockyeti


Hahahaha….....you’re funny Blockheadyeti. I always found the old used blades, do the most damage.

View papadan's profile

papadan

3584 posts in 3930 days


#20 posted 02-14-2017 12:14 AM


Really? How could anybody think it s not humor?

Mike, sorry, still here :>/ (get back on the breathing machine)

- jbay

Advocating replacing breakers with higher amperage to avoid trips is never going to get a smile from me. The vast majority of people are novices with electrical work and would believe you at face value, and subsequently burn their house or shop down from an electrical fire.

- William Shelley


I don’t give electrical advice to you young’uns no more. Every time I try, you have too damn many questions. What’s a fuse? Which direction to unscrew it? If I don’t have a penny, will a dime work? Just ain’t worth the headaches!

View Bill_Steele's profile

Bill_Steele

604 posts in 2294 days


#21 posted 02-14-2017 05:39 PM

Will I wear out my electric motor tools sooner by stopping and starting them frequently?

I almost always stop my tablesaw between cuts if I have to walk away from the machine or make fence/miter gauge adjustments. I’ve had the same saw for 20 years and it’s still working (knock on wood).

I often leave my DC running while I’m in the shop—primarily because Oneida included directions with the DC (mini-gorilla) advising that it should NOT be stopped/started more than 6 times per hour.

For me, hearing protection does affect my ability to hear how the tool is cutting and if something sounds odd/not normal. I would prefer to hear the tool running and hear how the cut sounds, but on the other hand I don’t want to damage my hearing from the continuous loud noise. I make it a habit to wear eye and hearing protection.

View Carloz's profile

Carloz

1147 posts in 1154 days


#22 posted 02-14-2017 05:57 PM

I often leave my DC running while I m in the shop—primarily because Oneida included directions with the DC (mini-gorilla) advising that it should NOT be stopped/started more than 6 times per hour.

- Bill_Steele


That’s a big b/s from Oneida.
While your DC is running is spits a lot of micro dust that gets through the filter no matter how good the filter is.
So in some scenarios no DC is better than a DC that is always on.

View papadan's profile

papadan

3584 posts in 3930 days


#23 posted 02-14-2017 06:11 PM

I stack all pieces that require the same cut, when done shut off the saw, but I don’t shut it off between each cut. My DC is outside the shop. I use a Long Ranger remote and turn it on when I open the door and turn on the lights. 1, 3, 9, hours later when I leave for the day, I turn off the DC and then the lights. 18 years has only cost me a half dozen batteries for the remote, age kills them before useage.

View papadan's profile

papadan

3584 posts in 3930 days


#24 posted 02-14-2017 06:16 PM


I often leave my DC running while I m in the shop—primarily because Oneida included directions with the DC (mini-gorilla) advising that it should NOT be stopped/started more than 6 times per hour.

- BillSteele

That s a big b/s from Oneida._
While your DC is running is spits a lot of micro dust that gets through the filter no matter how good the filter is.
So in some scenarios no DC is better than a DC that is always on.

- Carloz


Carloz, very nice to meet you. I have always wanted to have a friend that knows more than all the engineers that design and build our tools. Tell me, they are lying to us that static grounding should be done too, aren’t they?

View Kelly's profile

Kelly

2531 posts in 3506 days


#25 posted 02-14-2017 06:41 PM

Sorry to those concerned those ignorant of electricity would not recognize the “advice” or “techniques used” as humor, but I thought it was funny. Of course, those of us who made a living herding electrons, often, would,

That said, I recognize there are those who, as was common back in the day (40’s, 50’s & 60’s), would use a penny in place of a fuse, unaware or unconcerned it was a way to overheat lines in walls.

For the reasons stated, I guess we could leave it at, “for those unaware, if any, installing sixty amp or any larger breaker than your lines call for (e.g., 15 amp for 14 gauge, 20 amp for 12 gauge or 30 amp for 10 gauge) is inviting a fire and conversations relating to such, including using pennies in place of fuses and such were meant as humor AND should NEVER BE DONE.”

View Kelly's profile

Kelly

2531 posts in 3506 days


#26 posted 02-14-2017 06:54 PM

and regarding stopping and starting three horse and better motors, as advised against by Oneida (which is why I went from a large Oneida system to three collectors after I retired and my shop became a hobby shop):

“Each time an a-c motor starts from rest, then accelerates some driven machine to full speed, the motor is stressed three ways. First, the sudden inrush of starting current (typically 6 to 8 times the nameplate amperes) causes high electromagnetic forces tending to tear the winding apart. Second, that current also causes severe thermal expansion in the winding. Third, similar short-time overheating and mechanical stress occur in the rotor squirrel cage. The larger the motor, the more severe the stresses.

That will eventually lead to fatigue failures. This is a “wearout” mechanism. When we ask how many starts a motor can handle before breaking down, we’re asking the same sort of question as “How many times can Nolan Ryan throw that fastball?” (We got the answer near the close of the 1993 baseball season — but until then no one could have predicted exactly when the end would come.)

NEMA offers general answers about motor starting frequency — for standard motors only. First, NEMA recognizes that starting stress depends upon the nature of the driven machine — the load inertia, and the load torque during acceleration. For a 3-phase motor 1 through 250 hp, 1200 through 3600 rpm, NEMA Standard MG10 stipulates the maximum number of starts per hour, and the required cool-down time between successive starts, for loads possessing specific inertia and torque values. A 10 hp motor, for example, may be able to start 6 times per hour; a 200 hp motor, only twice per hour. In all cases, the presumption is that 24 such hours occur each and every day.

For larger machines, NEMA MG1 gives only the number of starts in succession —usually 2 with the motor initially cold, or one restart if the motor has been stopped while hot. How many starts per hour, or per day, isn’t stated. But, 4 to 6 per 24-hour day is a common limit.

Exceeding such numbers will reduce motor life on the average, just as overwork may reduce human life — even though a specific individual may survive, most individuals won’t; the same for motors.

If a single start is not severe, a large motor may be able to sustain 50,000 starts over its lifetime; only 35,000 for a difficult start. Obviously, starting 10 or 20 times daily can use up that fatigue life long before the motor would otherwise be at risk. Starting any motor more than a few times daily, over a long period, should always be checked with the manufacturer.

“Reduced-voltage” starting methods, such as the solid-state “soft starter,” do not ease the starting burden on the motor. By lowering motor torque output during acceleration, they may actually make the start much more severe. Allowing the motor to safely start more often is not among the several valid reasons for using such starting methods.

Richard L. Nailen, P. E”

http://www.brithinee.com/technical-articles/how-often-can-a-motor-be-started/

See, also, http://www.maintenancetechnology.com/2003/04/overheating-electric-motors-a-major-cause-of-failure/
and many other pages with similar information.

View Kelly's profile

Kelly

2531 posts in 3506 days


#27 posted 02-14-2017 07:17 PM

Oddly, it is for that very reason (not being able to hear how a blade is cutting) I wear ear protection when running my band saw and the Carter Stabilizer.

Making a 1/4” blade do things we “know” it can’t do often results in noises that remind us of “what we know,” so I shut those noises out.

;)


For me, hearing protection does affect my ability to hear how the tool is cutting and if something sounds odd/not normal. I would prefer to hear the tool running and hear how the cut sounds, but on the other hand I don t want to damage my hearing from the continuous loud noise. I make it a habit to wear eye and hearing protection.
- Bill_Steele

View papadan's profile

papadan

3584 posts in 3930 days


#28 posted 02-14-2017 07:45 PM



and regarding stopping and starting three horse and better motors, as advised against by Oneida (which is why I went from a large Oneida system to three collectors after I retired and my shop became a hobby shop):

“Each time an a-c motor starts from rest, then accelerates some driven machine to full speed, the motor is stressed three ways. First, the sudden inrush of starting current (typically 6 to 8 times the nameplate amperes) causes high electromagnetic forces tending to tear the winding apart. Second, that current also causes severe thermal expansion in the winding. Third, similar short-time overheating and mechanical stress occur in the rotor squirrel cage. The larger the motor, the more severe the stresses.

That will eventually lead to fatigue failures. This is a “wearout” mechanism. When we ask how many starts a motor can handle before breaking down, we’re asking the same sort of question as “How many times can Nolan Ryan throw that fastball?” (We got the answer near the close of the 1993 baseball season — but until then no one could have predicted exactly when the end would come.)

NEMA offers general answers about motor starting frequency — for standard motors only. First, NEMA recognizes that starting stress depends upon the nature of the driven machine — the load inertia, and the load torque during acceleration. For a 3-phase motor 1 through 250 hp, 1200 through 3600 rpm, NEMA Standard MG10 stipulates the maximum number of starts per hour, and the required cool-down time between successive starts, for loads possessing specific inertia and torque values. A 10 hp motor, for example, may be able to start 6 times per hour; a 200 hp motor, only twice per hour. In all cases, the presumption is that 24 such hours occur each and every day.

For larger machines, NEMA MG1 gives only the number of starts in succession —usually 2 with the motor initially cold, or one restart if the motor has been stopped while hot. How many starts per hour, or per day, isn’t stated. But, 4 to 6 per 24-hour day is a common limit.

Exceeding such numbers will reduce motor life on the average, just as overwork may reduce human life — even though a specific individual may survive, most individuals won’t; the same for motors.

If a single start is not severe, a large motor may be able to sustain 50,000 starts over its lifetime; only 35,000 for a difficult start. Obviously, starting 10 or 20 times daily can use up that fatigue life long before the motor would otherwise be at risk. Starting any motor more than a few times daily, over a long period, should always be checked with the manufacturer.

“Reduced-voltage” starting methods, such as the solid-state “soft starter,” do not ease the starting burden on the motor. By lowering motor torque output during acceleration, they may actually make the start much more severe. Allowing the motor to safely start more often is not among the several valid reasons for using such starting methods.

Richard L. Nailen, P. E”

http://www.brithinee.com/technical-articles/how-often-can-a-motor-be-started/

See, also, http://www.maintenancetechnology.com/2003/04/overheating-electric-motors-a-major-cause-of-failure/
and many other pages with similar information.

- Kelly


Kelly, this is one of the finest posts I have ever read on this site. Your info and explanations are perfect. I am medically disabled now after working 40 years on industrial equipment. The last 23 exclusively on overhead cranes and hoists. The one – 300 hp 460-575 volt 3 phase motors you speak of. Along with their control systems and the machinery they run. I designed, built, installed, repaired, inspected, and rebuilt this equipment in everything from small auto repair shops to the West Virginia steel mills, to the Navy ship yards. You DO know what you’re talking about! I have always found the average leihman has no clue as to what we are talking about. With every single electrical device ever made being based on a coil, I just use the duty cycle of their welder as the example for the life expectancy of electrical items. Thank You

View papadan's profile

papadan

3584 posts in 3930 days


#29 posted 02-14-2017 08:12 PM

I would never actually advise anyone to bypass a fuse. But a true story is… in 1977 we bought our first home. A run down shotgun that needed everything. Before being able to move in there were several utility issues that had to be addressed. I was 20 years old and just spent my life savings of $8,000 to buy a home free and clear. During my eval. of all systems, the biggest problem was one of the fuses kept blowing. There were only 3 powering the whole house. when this fuse blew everything went off. I could turn on every light and plug lamps or radios into every outlet. When it blew or was unscrewd , all died. with all on I could unscrew either of the other fuses and half the house died. I did finally put THE PENNY behind the fuse. Never found the smoke we searched days for, it just kept everything going. A couple weeks later the reno. started. First thing I did was tear out the fuse box to install a new 200 amp service. I used an old poloroid camera to record everything and they faded away many years ago. What I found was the Main fuse holder was cracked and slightly burned. Someone way back ran the main down to my penny fuse, then back up and looped back down and connected to the main fuse, and there was a steel strap welded across the back of the main fuse holder.I should have bronzed and kept the whole thing.

View HorizontalMike's profile

HorizontalMike

7804 posts in 3476 days


#30 posted 02-14-2017 08:46 PM



Really? How could anybody think it s not humor?
Mike, sorry, still here :>/ (get back on the breathing machine)
- jbay

Since YOU asked… Before I made the comment that I did, I checked out your LJs Profile. All of the following were removed from your Profile by LJs administration:
  • Your Projects
  • Your Blog
  • Your Forum Topics

Having seen that, there is NO WAY I could ever see the humor in suggesting someone endanger themselves unknowingly. If you are back from an enforced sabbatical then welcome back, however, I would suggest toning back your sense of humor that you claim that it was. In other words don’t endanger others with your words/suggestions. Just sayin’...


Your Projects
For example:

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-- HorizontalMike -- "Woodpeckers understand..."

View Kelly's profile

Kelly

2531 posts in 3506 days


#31 posted 02-14-2017 08:53 PM

To be fair, I was just parroting people far more knowledgeable than me, but thanx.

View 000's profile

000

2859 posts in 1461 days


#32 posted 02-14-2017 09:22 PM

Congrats Mike, You have earned your badge. Good Job

(Administration did not remove my projects.)

View Woodknack's profile

Woodknack

12945 posts in 2942 days


#33 posted 02-14-2017 09:57 PM



...The vast majority of people are novices with electrical work and would believe you at face value…
- William Shelley

No they wouldn’t. If most people were that stupid they would be dead already.

-- Rick M, http://thewoodknack.blogspot.com/

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Smitty_Cabinetshop

16259 posts in 3180 days


#34 posted 02-14-2017 11:25 PM

^ Word.

-- Don't anthropomorphize your handplanes. They hate it when you do that. -- OldTools Archive --

View Tony_S's profile

Tony_S

1046 posts in 3645 days


#35 posted 02-15-2017 12:08 AM

Word X 2

-- “Wise men speak because they have something to say; fools because they have to say something.” – Plato

View papadan's profile

papadan

3584 posts in 3930 days


#36 posted 02-15-2017 12:15 AM

jbay, I think maybe Mikie has a little crush on you. This is Valentines day! ;-)

View HorizontalMike's profile

HorizontalMike

7804 posts in 3476 days


#37 posted 02-15-2017 01:18 AM



jbay, I think maybe Mikie has a little crush on you. This is Valentines day! ;-)
- papadan

jBay’s is not that cute, even though he appears to want to show and flaunt it in his Profile. At this point I am disengaging.

-- HorizontalMike -- "Woodpeckers understand..."

View Chris Cook's profile

Chris Cook

329 posts in 2843 days


#38 posted 02-15-2017 01:33 AM

I have a procedure that I follow for all bench power tools (lathes, router table, table saw, drill press, etc.). When I get done, I turn it off and watch the [blade] until it stops spinning. This way I am sure I don’t do something like bump a spinning table saw blade, or catch a shirt on a spinning drill bit. Just one of those safety procedures I make myself do. Keeps me from rushing around too!

-- Chris, "all we are is sawdust in the dust collector""

View Holbs's profile

Holbs

2254 posts in 2591 days


#39 posted 02-15-2017 03:05 AM

I am glad I joined LumberJocks when I started my wood working hobby journey. So many safety posts, pictures, and videos out there showing how dangerous machines and hand tools can be. Since day 1, I unplug every machine when not in use. And when I do plug it in, I ensure nothing is in the vicinity of the moving parts before plugging it in. I wear a faceshield and hearing protection all the time that it has become standard. I spent hundreds of dollars in the pursuit of safety in my workshop (even a Sharkguard on my PM66 and disappearing splitter on my Unisaw…and 2 zone ceiling lighting “JUST” incase one fuse goes awry right in the middle of a cut), along with my 2 wynn nano-filters for my DC. But I got to say, I’ve never walked far away from a machine while it’s running. I would be too scared for RWE’s reason: forget it’s on and come back without thinking and start doing something I think I’m safe doing, but about to lose some digits or damage the machinery. Anytime I am about to plug in, using, and even turning off…I take a second to look around.

-- The Carpenter Bee is derived from the Ancient Greek word wood-cutter "xylokopos/ξυλοκὀπος"

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papadan

3584 posts in 3930 days


#40 posted 02-15-2017 03:21 AM

Holbs, I try to scare the hell out of newbies. Make them afraid of those machines. Builds a healthy respect for them. These tools and machine aren’t going to do nothing to anyone, but they are deadly when someone does the wrong thing to them selves. I leave all my tools plugged in most of the time without thinking about it. Lathe, drill press, sanders. BUT… I don’t step away from a saw without pulling the key and laying it on top in plain site. This includes table, band, and miter saws. To easy to touch a button or trigger and start it up.

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papadan

3584 posts in 3930 days


#41 posted 02-15-2017 06:10 PM

I will ad this to the conversation. I am an advocate against SawStop, as well as what’s coming with these automatic cars and the tech of the future. I watched a video of a test drive. The “driver” and front seat passenger were turned facing each other talking and drinking something. There was no steering wheel in the vehicle. GPS from your location, type in destination, arrive in style. Looks so perfect, what about the 20 billion cars and trucks that have steering wheels? They CAN turn the car and hit you, you CAN’T turn the car to avoid them. We ain’t George Jetson yet. Companies and schools (even A1Jim) are teaching students and workers on machines that can’t bite. Sooner than later those people will find themselves in the presence of a Unisaw, Ridgid, whatever. Their confidence is over the top because they have been using table saws for years and they CAN’T get hurt by them. JMHO no offense meant toward you Jim, but you went SawStop because of the students in your shop, just a fact. * SawStop will be great when every tablesaw on earth has the Can’t Bite technology…..Oh wait.. Our government in all it’s wisdom, just shot down another company (Bosch) that was helping to get the can’t bites to the masses. How big is the SS factory and how many millions of saws can they produce each year? Oooops….. just caught it, SS wants to rule the world in safety “Greed” . wasn’t there another SS that had the world best interest in mind?

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marshallLaw

20 posts in 1362 days


#42 posted 02-16-2017 06:30 AM

wow, after reading the first 30 postings all I can say from a 3 score+ life is there are times when one must step back and let go of your ego/idea every bad thing will happen/etc etc and take a breath and RELAX.
You cannot be protected from everything, there is humor in everything – even death, life is a constant challenge and you succeed by meeting the challenges of which you most assuredly WILL NOT beat all of them; that is how you grow and learn.

View Mikesawdust's profile

Mikesawdust

329 posts in 3601 days


#43 posted 02-16-2017 09:31 AM

I can get the Humor in some of the posts but I can also see the concern others have. I remember a story from one of my coworkers where they were performing a training operation while in the next bay others were performing some serious maintenance on a military munition. Someone in the other bay asked what the torc was and the guy training said jokingly “as tight as it will go and a quarter turn more”. This was followed by a loud pop and a lot of paperwork. Be careful of what you joke about and be careful who you take advice from.

-- You never cut a piece to short, you are just prepping that piece for a future project

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papadan

3584 posts in 3930 days


#44 posted 02-17-2017 05:00 AM



wow, after reading the first 30 postings all I can say from a 3 score+ life is there are times when one must step back and let go of your ego/idea every bad thing will happen/etc etc and take a breath and RELAX.
You cannot be protected from everything, there is humor in everything – even death, life is a constant challenge and you succeed by meeting the challenges of which you most assuredly WILL NOT beat all of them; that is how you grow and learn.

- marshallLaw


So true and well said Marshal

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papadan

3584 posts in 3930 days


#45 posted 02-17-2017 05:16 AM

Talk about teaching and people with bad habits and joking around reminded me of a true story. Back around 02-03 I went to Mannesmann Demag factory school in Cleveland to brush up on some new technologies they had coming up. They always include classes for teaching operators and I would update my OSHA/ANSI logs. During these classes the instructors would throw out qustions to random people and if they answered correctly the instructor would pith them either a Demag coffee cup, Travel cup, or T shirt. Second day and we were discussing Operator errors and distractions. The instructor pointed at me and asked what was the number one preventable distraction. I thought for a minute and said that in my recent experience it has become headphones with radios and Walkman stereos. The operators can’t hear what’s happening. He pointed at me and yelled DING DONG right answer. He pitched me Tiny little FM radio with a set of earphones that actually have the Demag Crane Name and LOGO on it. Class could not continue for 10 minutes from the laughing.

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Robert

3571 posts in 2043 days


#46 posted 02-17-2017 12:17 PM

Part 2: Yesterday my son left my little 12’ bandsaw running after he was done using it. As I was turning out the lights to leave I just happened to hear a little humm. You see, its a very quiet machine. The apple doesn’t fall far from the tree does it?

To the poster about teaching to be scared of machines I think this is the best way toward injury.

Fear does breed respect, but when you are the one running things knowledge, confidence, discipline and good habits are the best ways to avoid injury.

Which brings me to another point: knowing WHEN to turn off a machine when things don’t feel right is probably more important remembering to turn it off!

-- Everything is a prototype thats why its one of a kind!!

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Kelly

2531 posts in 3506 days


#47 posted 02-17-2017 04:55 PM

I’ve found the saying “[y]ou shouldn’t fear it, you should respect it” to be more of a parroted than factual thing for decades. There are a few, I believe, good reasons for this:

1) Fear has kept us alive and safe since we went around clubbing plants, dinosaurs and our dates. It’s one of our most valuable survival tools in the shop.
2) Fear usually comes before respect and the latter is, more often than not, born of fear.
3) It is my suspicion fear offers more of an edge than respect, for safety purposes, when you are ignorant of something. I’ve had people in my shop who respect what my saw can do to a piece of three by three inch piece of maple, but don’t fear it enough to inquire about getting the wood through and past the blade with other than their fingers and hands. In fact, in the old days, were were taught to ignore our fear and just push the piece on through.
4) Most cannot, really, define the words fear and respect sufficiently to give the saying real value or meaning.
5) I’ve owned a Unisaw for thirty-one years and I’m still afraid of it. Because of that fear, I a whole lot of different devices to protect me from it, and no one here has any more fingers or thumbs than I do.

To the poster about teaching to be scared of machines I think this is the best way toward injury.

Fear does breed respect, but when you are the one running things knowledge, confidence, discipline and good habits are the best ways to avoid injury.

- rwe2156

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Robert

3571 posts in 2043 days


#48 posted 02-17-2017 05:39 PM

Wow, afraid of your tablesaw after 30 years? Why do you still have it?

Perhaps you mean “afraid of what it can do”. Natural instinct dictates we avoid what we fear. Do you seek to use any other machine before you resort to your tablesaw?

Machines don’t hurt us, we get hurt because we make mistakes in many ways. We use a machine improperly or we use faulty, misadjusted, underpowered, improperly set up machines, or we’ve never been taught proper techniques, or we don’t anticipate a potential problem, or last but not least, we don’t use the best safety equipment we have its right between our ears.

Fear also causes herds of wildebeasts to run of a cliff. Its the whole flight or fright thing.

I’m not afraid of my machines, but I’m always cognizant I may go brain dead because I’m in a hurry.

-- Everything is a prototype thats why its one of a kind!!

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Kelly

2531 posts in 3506 days


#49 posted 02-17-2017 07:03 PM

That semantics thing was pure genius.

That aside, I should probably follow rwe2156 lead and get rid of my shop and equipment: For sale, forty thousand dollars worth of woodworking and related equipment; and, for rent, a 1,800 square foot shop set up for woodworking.


Wow, afraid of your tablesaw after 30 years? Why do you still have it?

Perhaps you mean “afraid of what it can do”. Natural instinct dictates we avoid what we fear. Do you seek to use any other machine before you resort to your tablesaw?

Machines don t hurt us, we get hurt because we make mistakes in many ways. We use a machine improperly or we use faulty, misadjusted, underpowered, improperly set up machines, or we ve never been taught proper techniques, or we don t anticipate a potential problem, or last but not least, we don t use the best safety equipment we have its right between our ears.

Fear also causes herds of wildebeasts to run of a cliff. Its the whole flight or fright thing.

I m not afraid of my machines, but I m always cognizant I may go brain dead because I m in a hurry.

- rwe2156


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