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View ohtimberwolf's profile

Kitchen cabinet problem. special joints? I don't want to have to do it over again.

by ohtimberwolf
posted 02-12-2017 05:29 PM


16 replies so far

View Kelster58's profile

Kelster58

748 posts in 903 days


#1 posted 02-12-2017 05:41 PM

I have found that spacers glued into the space between the panel and door stile and rail help with expansion and contraction. They keep the panel centered and tight during expansion and contraction. As the panel shrinks these things keep it centered so cracks between the panel and stile aren’t as noticeable. Keeps the panel still so it doesn’t rattle either. Here is a link to them on Amazon: https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0006LA198/ref=oh_aui_detailpage_o01_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1

I agree completely with TungOil and RichTaylor…......Very good solutions.

-- K. Stone “Tell me and I forget, teach me and I may remember, involve me and I learn.” ― Benjamin Franklin

View Rich's profile

Rich

4419 posts in 952 days


#2 posted 02-12-2017 06:00 PM

Since they are going to be painted, I suggest using MDF for the panels. There will be no movement and its smooth surface is perfect for painting. I did that for some cabinets I put in at my old house, and they still looked great after 10 years. It’s much cheaper too.

Poplar works well for the rails and stiles. It’s very stable, mills cleanly, and is a great surface for paint.

I also second the recommendation for space balls. Even though there would be no expansion or contraction with MDF, they do keep the panel stable and rattle free.

-- Knowledge is not skill. Knowledge plus ten thousand times is skill. -- Shinichi Suzuki

View TungOil's profile

TungOil

1210 posts in 858 days


#3 posted 02-12-2017 06:01 PM

Paint the center panel before you assemble the door. Plywood panels will be more stable. You will probably still get a fine crack in the paint where the rail and stile meet but you can minimize this by using narrow rails and stiles.

-- The optimist says "the glass is half full". The pessimist says "the glass is half empty". The engineer says "the glass is twice as big as it needs to be"

View waho6o9's profile

waho6o9

8638 posts in 2940 days


#4 posted 02-12-2017 06:30 PM

MDO panels and as stated above, paint before you assemble them.

View Fred Hargis's profile

Fred Hargis

5507 posts in 2856 days


#5 posted 02-12-2017 06:47 PM

MDO (which paints nicely) or regular veneer plywood, or MDF panels. They don’t move in a measurable fashion. Glue them into the frames and you not only have a really solid door, but no movement problems.

-- Our village hasn't lost it's idiot, he was elected to congress.

View ohtimberwolf's profile

ohtimberwolf

930 posts in 2715 days


#6 posted 02-12-2017 08:01 PM

Thanks guys, great food for thought. I’ll surely do some if not all suggested. I have no experience with painting new cabinet work. larry

-- Just a barn cat, now gone to cat heaven.

View Loren's profile

Loren

10477 posts in 4011 days


#7 posted 02-12-2017 08:03 PM

use plywood.

For stain grade I put a nail top and bottom
in th back of the door frame to keep the
panel centered.

I’ve used spaceballs too.

View ohtimberwolf's profile

ohtimberwolf

930 posts in 2715 days


#8 posted 02-12-2017 08:18 PM

Does anyone know if space ball will deteriorate over time?

-- Just a barn cat, now gone to cat heaven.

View MT_Stringer's profile

MT_Stringer

3183 posts in 3594 days


#9 posted 02-12-2017 08:19 PM

You made me go look at our buffet that we built about 3 years ago. I don’t see anything that resembles movement. I used space balls in the drawer construction and poplar for the raised panel doors.
Example (dry fit).

Drawer fronts

Outdoor spray booth! (primer)

Finished project

Happy Camper

-- Handcrafted by Mike Henderson - Channelview, Texas

View Rich's profile

Rich

4419 posts in 952 days


#10 posted 02-12-2017 08:40 PM



Does anyone know if space ball will deteriorate over time?

- ohtimberwolf

I’ve deteriorated over time, but the space balls are going strong.

Seriously though, I bought a bag of 1000 on Amazon a long time ago, and they are still the same.

-- Knowledge is not skill. Knowledge plus ten thousand times is skill. -- Shinichi Suzuki

View ohtimberwolf's profile

ohtimberwolf

930 posts in 2715 days


#11 posted 02-12-2017 09:56 PM

Stringer, looks great. What type of finish paint did you use. Did you use an airless sprayer?

Rich, sounds like you won’t be needing any more. Thanks for the info.

-- Just a barn cat, now gone to cat heaven.

View MT_Stringer's profile

MT_Stringer

3183 posts in 3594 days


#12 posted 02-12-2017 10:11 PM



Stringer, looks great. What type of finish paint did you use. Did you use an airless sprayer?

Rich, sounds like you won t be needing any more. Thanks for the info.

- ohtimberwolf

Latex paint using an airless sprayer. Then a friend applied a glaze and a clear finish over it.

-- Handcrafted by Mike Henderson - Channelview, Texas

View ohtimberwolf's profile

ohtimberwolf

930 posts in 2715 days


#13 posted 02-12-2017 10:21 PM

Thanks, this is new ground for me. Never liked risking painted kitchen cabinets. larry

-- Just a barn cat, now gone to cat heaven.

View Robert's profile

Robert

3371 posts in 1844 days


#14 posted 02-13-2017 01:22 PM

Best to use ply to avoid movement issues, plus you can glue them in which makes the door stronger.

If you’re doing raised panes, I would use solid wood (I very much dislike milling MDF due to toxicity issues). Paint them before installing that way if they shrink a bit the border won’t show.

If you do them correctly the purpose of frame and panel is to allow the panel to move. I’ve never used space balls but they are a good idea.

I seriously doubt they will move enough to crack paint. Most paint is designed to be a bit elastic. I would use a high quality paint from a paint store they will advise you on the best type.

Standard construction for kitchen cab doors is cope and stick. Special router bits available. On wider doors you could consider mortise/tenon for strength to reduce tendency to warp or twist. I’ve built large pantry doors using cope and stick with no problems (plywood panels glued in).

The best advice I can give you is be VERY aware of wood moisture content/drying/acclimating, etc. Mill the wood incrementally don’t take more than 1/16” and do it everything evenly to both sides. Is you’re using surfaced wood, no problem just be aware even if the wood is kiln dried I recommend acclimating for at least a week after cutting to size.

-- Everything is a prototype thats why its one of a kind!!

View pontic's profile

pontic

693 posts in 971 days


#15 posted 02-13-2017 01:48 PM

I would spray them for sure. Prepaint the panels regardless, this will help keep glue squeezeout from sticking the panel to the frame. When the panel frame is plywood and one corner is glued to the rail/style glue joint, it can (and did to me) pull the veneer surface from the substrate of the panel. Prefinishing or prepainting the panel will greatly help to avoid this.

-- Illigitimii non carburundum sum

View ohtimberwolf's profile

ohtimberwolf

930 posts in 2715 days


#16 posted 02-14-2017 02:55 AM

Thanks for all the help guys, I am keeping all of it in a word file so I can review your help.

I see one of the commercial door makers uses Sherwin Williams Extra White on their doors. Has anyone had experience with this paint or is there a better one?
Here is their site.
http://www.cabinetdoorworld.com/shaker-cabinet-door-painted/

-- Just a barn cat, now gone to cat heaven.

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