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All Replies on 3 easy questions that have haunted me for a couple months now

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View Holbs's profile

3 easy questions that have haunted me for a couple months now

by Holbs
posted 02-08-2017 02:54 AM


24 replies so far

View MrUnix's profile

MrUnix

7241 posts in 2495 days


#1 posted 02-08-2017 03:02 AM

For #1, I see the opposite… most wood shops have huge honking compressors sitting over in the corner somewhere and are used for everything from shop cleanup to spraying finishes. A pancake compressor isn’t good for a lot of those tasks, and are in their element out on the job site nailing down shingles or trim moulding. I have a 30gal compressor and occasionally wish it were a bit bigger. I can’t imagine going to anything smaller, but everyone uses them for different purposes, so what I or anyone else needs may not be what you need.

As for #2, I imagine what you are seeing is an effect of the teeth not being perfectly aligned, which is basically impossible. There will always be a tooth that is slightly further out than the others.

#3 – I imagine if you design the down-draft extension right, you could still use the table saw as usual.

Cheers,
Brad

-- Brad in FL - In Dog I trust... everything else is questionable

View Holbs's profile

Holbs

2171 posts in 2325 days


#2 posted 02-08-2017 03:05 AM

brad… yes, if i found a 30+gallon air compressor at a good price, I’ll snag it of course :) I couldn’t pass on the $25 12 gallon one though. Should tide me over for time being. I have 3 dado sets: regular Freud, Freud super dado, and forrest king. I only tested the super dado…so I’ll see how all 3 measure.

-- The Carpenter Bee is derived from the Ancient Greek word wood-cutter "xylokopos/ξυλοκὀπος"

View bigblockyeti's profile

bigblockyeti

5489 posts in 2017 days


#3 posted 02-08-2017 04:22 AM

1) Probably has to do with low price and ability to run most finish nail guns. I have an 80 gallon compressor and a two gallon, the small one does over 75% of what I need in my wood shop but for clean up or running a DA the big boy is the way to go.

2) Can’t answer the question without knowing the units, 0.4 of one foot would be concerning, 0.4 of one ten thousandth of an inch wouldn’t be enough to worry about.

3) If you can keep it flat and strong without interfering with the fence operation, go for it. It sounds like a good use of some otherwise underutilized square footage.

-- "Lack of effort will result in failure with amazing predictability" - Me

View Slider20's profile

Slider20

119 posts in 818 days


#4 posted 02-08-2017 12:23 PM

All I can answer is the 1st one, just a Hobbyist, but I use my compressor for nailers and occasional cleanup, and filling a few balls and tires.

No need for a big compressor to take up space, if I spray it’s with a self contained HVLP unit.

Don’t really see the point in a large compressor with modern power tools.

View Carloz's profile

Carloz

1147 posts in 888 days


#5 posted 02-08-2017 12:55 PM

Don t really see the point in a large compressor with modern power tools.

- Slider20


You mean modern nail guns, right? Because most all other tools require big compressor: all kind of grinders, polishers, impact wrenches, hammers, sprayguns, sand blasters….

View Redoak49's profile

Redoak49

3838 posts in 2285 days


#6 posted 02-08-2017 01:04 PM

The answer to the compressor is to match it to your needs. My pancake compressor does 95% of what I do.

With the dado, I just make test cuts to assure a good fit.

View OSU55's profile

OSU55

2146 posts in 2286 days


#7 posted 02-08-2017 01:06 PM

1) depends on what the compressor is used for. It’s interesting how folks discuss air compressors by tank size and not cfm @ xx psi as well. Both are needed to know if tools can be supported and how much the unit will cycle. Mine is somewhat large because I spray finish, otherwise a small pancake unit would suffice. Air sanders, which many use, especially pro shops with multiple people, use a lot of air. Never understood blowing saw dust around the shop for “clean up”, I use a vac.

2) not vibration, but runout of the teeth, and alignment as well.

3) executed well, don’t see an issue.

View Gene Howe's profile

Gene Howe

11312 posts in 3725 days


#8 posted 02-08-2017 01:10 PM

#2…Someone, I think an LJ, posted a gauge he made to insure he planed to the proper thickness to fit his dados.
He cut several sizes across a 1×3(?).
A gauge like that eliminates worry about the exact size of the cut.

I found his post here.

-- Gene 'The true soldier fights not because he hates what is in front of him, but because he loves what is behind him.' G. K. Chesterton

View Slider20's profile

Slider20

119 posts in 818 days


#9 posted 02-08-2017 01:13 PM


Don t really see the point in a large compressor with modern power tools.

- Slider20

You mean modern nail guns, right? Because most all other tools require big compressor: all kind of grinders, polishers, impact wrenches, hammers, sprayguns, sand blasters….

- Carloz

No, I meant in a woodworking shop, at least a Hobbyist or small production shop modern power tools pretty much make large compressors unnecessary, maybe in an automotive shop they have more uses.

Milwaukee makes a large range of affordable cordless impacts, grinders and polishes corded ones seem to be more than adequate. Don’t do any sandblasting in my wood shop, others may be different.

Having a large compressor may be helpful to some people who have older tools that they want to utilize or to automotive or allot of metal work. But, for me, I’d rather a small portable unit, that I can tuck away or take with me,

View HokieKen's profile (online now)

HokieKen

8584 posts in 1435 days


#10 posted 02-08-2017 01:18 PM

#1 Pancakes are cheap, small and I love it when I need to drag it around a house tacking up trim or over to the neighbors ‘cause his tires are flat. Bigger is better for things that need the CFM. Depends on your requirements.

#2 I’m going to assume you forgot a zero and meant .020-.040. If that’s the case, it’s normal. If it’s really .2-.4 different, STOP USING THAT DADO STACK IMMEDIATELY ;-P

#3 Just a personal matter of how you want to allocate your space. I have a small shop and my router table and table saw both see double duty often for assembly and finishing tasks. Can’t see any problems from a functional standpoint.

-- Kenny, SW VA, Go Hokies!!!

View Fred Hargis's profile

Fred Hargis

5368 posts in 2789 days


#11 posted 02-08-2017 02:54 PM

If that dado is out .2 to .4”, you almost have to have a problem…make sure the teeth are touching each other (side to side) and that you have the outside blades (they are handed, left and right) in the correct position. The handing is more for a clean cut, but check anyway.

-- Our village hasn't lost it's idiot, he was elected to congress.

View Holbs's profile

Holbs

2171 posts in 2325 days


#12 posted 02-09-2017 01:55 AM

I stand corrected. It is not 0.2-0.4 range but forgot a zero: 0.02 and 0.04

-- The Carpenter Bee is derived from the Ancient Greek word wood-cutter "xylokopos/ξυλοκὀπος"

View D2indy's profile

D2indy

10 posts in 783 days


#13 posted 02-09-2017 02:12 AM

Regarding #1 – One word – noise. There are a few different small and quiet compressors that can do most jobs in a small shop. Small foot print, low noise level, easily moved.

-- Don in Indiana - "Failure does not stop me, it makes me try harder... because I'm crazy."

View xeddog's profile

xeddog

223 posts in 3303 days


#14 posted 02-09-2017 05:09 PM

#1 – I have a 30 Gal compressor that satisfies probably 95% of my needs, but SOMETIMES wish I had a bigger one. I use it for many things, but I would say that the most used item is the blow gun. I use it to blow off pieces that I have just sanded, cleaning the the sanders after use, air drying parts that I have cleaned either with water or solvents, a fast inflator for the big things like pool toys and air mattresses. I have also just purchased an hvlp conversion gun that I want to try out. I’m sure there are more uses that I haven’t remembered here.

#2 – I do what has already been mentioned and always test fit. I have never measured.

#3 – Sure, why not?

Wayne

View Iamjacob's profile

Iamjacob

48 posts in 2922 days


#15 posted 02-10-2017 11:16 PM

#2. 20-40 thousandths of an inch is quite a bit of run-out. That’s 1/32 which is way more than I would expect from a quality dado set. I have a cheap Oshlun set and I only get a few thousandths difference.

When you measure the width of the dado set, how are you measuring? Is the set installed and the arbor nut tight? Are you using a set of calipers to measure?

If you do the same thing with a standard blade (.125 or .095) how wide is the slot?

Have you checked your saw for arbor run-out? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EzF-oATzp2Y

If you are really getting a slot that is .020 – .040 wider than your saw blades you might have a bent arbor and it would need to be fixed/replaced.

View William Shelley's profile

William Shelley

609 posts in 1765 days


#16 posted 02-10-2017 11:22 PM

In my experience, the smaller air compressors are “oil-free” types, and have a loud shrill / high-pitched noise when running. Larger air compressors often use cast-iron parts which run much quieter and are much lower pitched. This makes them much less annoying to be around.

You almost can’t buy an air compressor that is too big. That being said, at my workplace we have a pair of 50HP compressors running a 60,000 sq ft manufacturing facility. Clearly that would be too big for a wood shop :)

-- Woodworking from an engineer's perspective

View Kelly's profile

Kelly

2236 posts in 3240 days


#17 posted 02-11-2017 02:21 AM

In forty plus years, I’ve never found measuring across a stacked dado set to be an accurate way of setting up for a dado cut. I have better luck stacking shims and dado blades according to recorded past cuts to get to standard sizes, but still make a test run because, for example, 3/4” just isn’t anymore.

As to compressors, if you go to a lot more shops you’re going to see a far more broad selection of compressors than you indicate. For example, I’ve got two now and just sent a third, a thirty gallon one, over to a friend’s.

Rather than go for a bigger compressor than the largest I have now, a five gallon, I’m just going to add another tank. That will take care of my needs. It wouldn’t work for someone running air driven sanders though.

As to the down draft – absolutely. I run a Unisaw and would have no qualms about using the horizontal storage portion of it for sanding, if I didn’t have a dedicated one with sides and a top, which is a hundred times more effective (because of the sides and top.

The extension table doesn’t have to store a lot of weight, even when cutting, so having a bunch of small holes in it shouldn’t hurt anything. However, I find I get drawn to my sanding station to do all manner of things I would never consider doing near my table tops.

View woodbutcherbynight's profile

woodbutcherbynight

5935 posts in 2705 days


#18 posted 02-11-2017 03:11 AM

Several others have answered the capacity and usage of a compressor sufficiently so I have nothing to add on this. BUT, a common complaint about air compressors of any size is the noise and the space they take up. If possible make a lean to outside your shop and keep the unit out of the elements but vented so it does not overheat. This gets rid of the noise and the space used. Also this makes draining the tank, (I know maint item we all want to forget about) much easier. You can go simple and just put one air outlet on a wall and use that or rig up multiple ones where you want or need them. Many different approaches on what to use for piping, some claim only metal lines, others CPVC is great, or a mix of the two. If you use CPVC either put it inside the walls as much as possible or cover it to protect from things that might bump it.

-- Live to tell the stories, they sound better that way.

View Kelly's profile

Kelly

2236 posts in 3240 days


#19 posted 02-11-2017 05:58 AM

It may have already been mentioned, but belt driven units are much quieter than the oil free.

View Holbs's profile

Holbs

2171 posts in 2325 days


#20 posted 02-11-2017 01:58 PM

Thank you all for the replies on the 3 subjects. It always bothered me that when I used dial calipers on my dado stack, the actual dado cut was not exactly the same. I have some measurements to do this weekend on all 3 of my dado stacks, check for arbor run out, and fine tune adjustments on my Unisaw.

The compressor discussion. I brought it up cause most folks do not have what I have (the 12 gallon tank) so was unsure if I was doing something….wrong :) They either have pancake or the stand up 30+ gallon tanks.

-- The Carpenter Bee is derived from the Ancient Greek word wood-cutter "xylokopos/ξυλοκὀπος"

View Holbs's profile

Holbs

2171 posts in 2325 days


#21 posted 02-11-2017 09:01 PM

Well, after ordering MAG-DRO Mitre Slot Caliper Base gadget, I think I’ve found my problem. I measured both my Freud Super Dado, Biesemeyer auxiliary fence and main Biesemeyer fence… beginning of miter slot was 0.000” and end of slot was 0.014” out of alignment to both fences. The Dado had 0.005”+/- difference along all teeth. Last year, I had no fine adjustment gadget and assumed based off some cut measurements, things where fine. This little MAG-DRO was $12 at Amazon. Considered the $80-$120 other gadget by woodpecker, but eh….

-- The Carpenter Bee is derived from the Ancient Greek word wood-cutter "xylokopos/ξυλοκὀπος"

View Matt's profile

Matt

160 posts in 1247 days


#22 posted 02-12-2017 12:06 AM

I’ve got two compressors, a 33 gallon oil-less that is in my garage and a small 6 gallon pancake in my basement shop. I use the pancake for pin/brad/staple guns and the occasional quick blowout of the TS cabinet or whatever needs a quick blast of air. The 33 gallon oil-less is used for spraying small HVLP and “LVLP” guns as well as “mechanic” functions with air tools. When I move, I’ll likely have both plumbed together (on separate circuits) to increase the available CFM’s for Spraying, until the bigger one dies and I’ll replace it was a cast iron unit.

-- My "projects" always look better with beer goggles.

View MT_Stringer's profile

MT_Stringer

3183 posts in 3527 days


#23 posted 02-12-2017 12:51 AM



I ve got two compressors, a 33 gallon oil-less that is in my garage and a small 6 gallon pancake in my basement shop. I use the pancake for pin/brad/staple guns and the occasional quick blowout of the TS cabinet or whatever needs a quick blast of air. The 33 gallon oil-less is used for spraying small HVLP and “LVLP” guns as well as “mechanic” functions with air tools. When I move, I ll likely have both plumbed together (on separate circuits) to increase the available CFM s for Spraying, until the bigger one dies and I ll replace it was a cast iron unit.

- Matt

WOW! Me too. The little one can’t keep up with the HVLP sprayer. Love the 33 gallon comp.

-- Handcrafted by Mike Henderson - Channelview, Texas

View Fred Hargis's profile

Fred Hargis

5368 posts in 2789 days


#24 posted 02-12-2017 01:50 PM

Holbs, I had never heard of the Mag-Dro. Thanks for the update. I have a shop made version of such a holder for the caliper, but went ahead and ordered that one. Glad it helped you out, BTW.

-- Our village hasn't lost it's idiot, he was elected to congress.

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