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View Carloz's profile

Sawstop rusted

by Carloz
posted 01-30-2017 02:16 PM


34 replies so far

View TungOil's profile

TungOil

1262 posts in 891 days


#1 posted 01-30-2017 02:28 PM

Sorry to hear that. I had a similar thing happen shortly after I put my new TS in as well, only with fir. I had cut about a dozen 2×4’s for a project late one afternoon and stacked them neatly on my tablesaw overnight. When I came down the next morning the moisture from the fir had already left a rust “image” of the 2×4’s on the top of my brand new TS, including an image of a knot! I had also very recently waxed the top. I was also surprised that it didn’t help much. I was able to buff most of it off with some steel wool but it’s still there.

Lesson learned for me- my next project was a material cart so I had a better place to stack my in-process materials!

-- The optimist says "the glass is half full". The pessimist says "the glass is half empty". The engineer says "the glass is twice as big as it needs to be"

View bigblockyeti's profile

bigblockyeti

5746 posts in 2116 days


#2 posted 01-30-2017 03:34 PM

What knd of humidity does your shop typically see? I don’t have A/C in my shop and the humidity can fluctuate quite a bit and despite doing something very similar more than few time and I’ve never had any rust like that on my Unisaw. I wonder what the difference in the iron might be.

-- "Lack of effort will result in failure with amazing predictability" - Me

View Carloz's profile

Carloz

1147 posts in 987 days


#3 posted 01-30-2017 04:46 PM

Humidity typically is very low here but I said it rained the whole week.

I was able to buff most of it off with some steel wool but it s still there.

I do not worry too much about it. A few srays with rust remover completely eliminated it. My concern was mostly about using wax for rust prevention which appeared to not work at all. I would be better leaving the table top as is. At least the clean up would be easier.

View Ripper70's profile

Ripper70

1279 posts in 1304 days


#4 posted 01-30-2017 05:39 PM

I’ve used this Krud Kutter product and it seems to work well. Supposedly it inhibits rust after removing it.

-- "You know, I'm such a great driver, it's incomprehensible that they took my license away." --Vince Ricardo

View CharlesA's profile

CharlesA

3383 posts in 2193 days


#5 posted 01-30-2017 05:53 PM

After reading several articles on rust, I started using Boeshield with Renaissance wax over that. Works quite well. But your conditions could lead to rust no matter how you prepare.

-- "Man is the only animal which devours his own, for I can apply no milder term to the general prey of the rich on the poor." ~Thomas Jefferson

View pintodeluxe's profile

pintodeluxe

5941 posts in 3209 days


#6 posted 01-30-2017 05:58 PM

I think it’s an interesting point about wax. Whether it is for a furniture finish or rust prevention, it doesn’t work very well. As far as longevity and keeping water out, it just doesn’t work.

I use Bostik Glidecote for all my cast iron tops, and haven’t had any trouble with rust. Compared to Johnson’s paste wax, it decreases sliding friction much better. Another positive, it isn’t greasy, and applies easily.

The negatives are it smells and makes you cough, so wear a respirator and gloves to apply it. Another negative is perhaps the price.

-- Willie, Washington "If You Choose Not To Decide, You Still Have Made a Choice" - Rush

View BulldogLouisiana's profile

BulldogLouisiana

326 posts in 1536 days


#7 posted 01-30-2017 06:49 PM

I buy this stuff, after reading a Fine Woodworking article on rust prevention.

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B000X4YCMA/ref=oh_aui_detailpage_o03_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1

Only used it a few months, but havent seen any rust. I live in Louisiana and my shop is unheated. It’s been a crazy winter, It will be in the teens one week, then 70 degrees two days later.

-- There are 10 types of people in the world. Those who understand binary and those who don't.

View brtech's profile

brtech

1065 posts in 3318 days


#8 posted 01-30-2017 07:15 PM

I read the article and thought I would give CRC 3-36 a try. I was put off by the shipping charge, not the can price.

Just had an idea and checked – yup, Ace Hardware has it, and will ship for free to my local store, which is really close to me, and I’m in there fairly often anyway.

View HorizontalMike's profile

HorizontalMike

7789 posts in 3310 days


#9 posted 01-30-2017 07:57 PM

Important Note:
If you are going to use a product like Boeshield RustFree, then remember this… ONLY apply the Boeshield RustFree to a rag/cloth/steel-wool that you use to apply. I made the mistake once of “spraying” the product directly onto the cast iron. DON”T DO THAT! It will leave a nasty spray pattern on the cast iron for all of eternity.

The raw product is so strong the it immediately starts etching the cast iron.

The plus factor is that AFTER a successful application, the surface of the cast iron is actually chemically changed and more resistant to rusting.

-- HorizontalMike -- "Woodpeckers understand..."

View MrUnix's profile (online now)

MrUnix

7388 posts in 2594 days


#10 posted 01-30-2017 08:18 PM

The raw product is so strong the it immediately starts etching the cast iron.
- HorizontalMike

BoeShield RustFree is just a ~30% diluted phosphoric acid solution in alcohol. And yes, phosphoric acid will etch the metal. What it leaves behind is iron phosphate, which will will act as a rust inhibitor. For a heck of a lot less, you can get a gallon of phosphoric acid at the BORG for about $15 (a few bucks more than an 11oz can of BoeShield) and make your own solution. And you can use distilled water instead of alcohol.

Cheers,
Brad

-- Brad in FL - In Dog I trust... everything else is questionable

View moke's profile

moke

1379 posts in 3172 days


#11 posted 01-30-2017 09:21 PM

Hey Brad,
what is the dilution ratio for the Phosphoric acid to distilled water?
Mike

-- Mike

View AHuxley's profile

AHuxley

874 posts in 3717 days


#12 posted 01-30-2017 11:06 PM

Keep in mind while diluting acid always add acid to water not water to a container of acid. While it may not be an issue with low concentration acids it is still the best practice.

View bonesbr549's profile

bonesbr549

1581 posts in 3463 days


#13 posted 01-31-2017 12:44 AM

I’ve got a free can of boeshield it you want it for shipping. I used it on My SS and hated it. Left horrible mess on it and the patterns you spoke of. I used 3m pad going in same grain direction till i got it down and then just put some johnson’s floor wax on. Thats all i’ve used since.

-- Sooner or later Liberals run out of other people's money.

View Shawn Masterson's profile

Shawn Masterson

1325 posts in 2344 days


#14 posted 01-31-2017 01:13 AM

once upon a time a long time ago this post came up. I haven’t done it, but I am considering it for myself. you can skip through the comments until you hit #13, thats where it gets interesting.

View Kelly's profile

Kelly

2300 posts in 3340 days


#15 posted 01-31-2017 06:32 AM

Look into Corrosion X. It holds up and I can even set a can of Coke on the saw. Do not go the next step up because it remains tacky.

When done, put something on to minimize friction, be it wax, TopCoat or whatever.

View Woodmaster1's profile

Woodmaster1

1173 posts in 2983 days


#16 posted 01-31-2017 11:04 AM

I use Johnson’s paste wax and have had any rust issues. I apply it at least 2 to 3 times a year.

View HorizontalMike's profile

HorizontalMike

7789 posts in 3310 days


#17 posted 01-31-2017 11:20 AM


I use Johnson s paste wax and have had any rust issues. I apply it at least 2 to 3 times a year.
- Woodmaster1

You must work in an air-conditioned shop. Down here in S. Texas, where temps often exceed 100F, I have to worry about drops of sweat dropping off and onto the cast iron surfaces. I continually use JPW, but it is no match for sweat. I get rust forming in less than a minute where ever sweat lands.

I now have 5-fans moving air in order to keep my sweat evaporating and not dripping all over the place. I also keep a steel wool pad packed with JPW just in case. That way I get both removal of rust and waxing at the same time.

Sometimes, however, it is just too hot and I take a break from WW-ing for a couple months.

-- HorizontalMike -- "Woodpeckers understand..."

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them700project

170 posts in 1414 days


#18 posted 01-31-2017 01:15 PM

I had this happen we got 8 inches of snow and the following day hit 55 all the humidity came through the garage door. The floor was wet my planes chisels table saw all surface rusted in one morning. I went back and forth with my rustfree and glidecoat and eventually it all came off with the exception of a few minor pits

View Hermit's profile

Hermit

229 posts in 1721 days


#19 posted 01-31-2017 02:26 PM

Found a review from fine woodworking 2015, winter, tool guide edition. They put all these to the test. Top 7 finishers in order were
1. CRC Industrial 3-36
2. LPS 3
3. Moovit
4. Rust Block
5. WD-40
6. WD-40 Long Term Corrosion Inhibitor
7. 3M Rust fighter.
They also did a test to see if any of the top picks would discolor wood, interfere with finishes or glue adhesion.
They also mentioned in the testing that paste wax do not offer much protection against rust.

-- I'm like the farmer's duck. If it don't rain, I'll walk.

View Kelly's profile

Kelly

2300 posts in 3340 days


#20 posted 01-31-2017 06:01 PM

Really, look into Corrosion X. It didn’t make that list, but I know, from first hand experience, it works.

My only complaint was, I’d put a mirror polish on my table top using my variable speed grinder and some of my worn granite polishing heads. That, alone, made for a friction free and quite pretty table top. However, the second I put the Corrosion X on, you’d never know how mirror like the top had been. However, the trade off was I could, literally, ignore sweat or even touch it with a coffee cup with impunity.

Pick up a spray bottle (mine is about six years old, a little goes a LONG ways) and test it on a few things.

To be fair, others have done tests and there is one other product that competes or beats even Corrosion X.

View skatefriday's profile

skatefriday

452 posts in 1878 days


#21 posted 01-31-2017 06:17 PM

I’ve used Boeshield for the last 3 years or so. I spray directly over the table and haven’t noticed any etching at all. And in those three years I think I’ve only reapplied about twice. Before that I used paste wax and it just didn’t work for more than a couple weeks.

View saltfly's profile

saltfly

81 posts in 896 days


#22 posted 01-31-2017 08:23 PM

I guess I do a little bit different then most. My garage isn’t heated or air conditioned. I live about 5 miles inland from the Ocean. Which mean a lot of salt air. You leave metal unprotected, and it will rust. So when I unpacked my table saw 12 years ago. The first thing I did was after cleaning it off, was to get a bottle of just lemon pledge furniture polish. Then I poured some on my saw table then wiped it around. Then let it sit an hour later I came back and did the same thing. I did this till their was still a puddle on the top. What most don’t know is cast iron tops are porous. A liquid will be absorbed till it can’t take any more. They I just wiped it off and buffed it out. Now I just once every 6 Mons, spray some on and buff it up. I did this to my table saw, jointer and both of my band saws and both drill press table tops. And I never get rust. Its cheap and easy to do. Now if your not sure about how porous cast iron is, just check with any engineering hand book on metal. I was an mechanical engineering designer for a defense contractor for 38 years. I use to go out to the hanger where we kept airplanes for test benches. The guys out there never had rusty on any cast iron tools and they had a bunch for sheet metal work. So one day I asked them, how they kept them from rusting. And that’s what they told me they did. And it works. Now I don’t want anyone thinking I’m saying that’s what every one should do. I’m just saying that’s what works for me and some of the tec’s I know.

View ColonelTravis's profile

ColonelTravis

1976 posts in 2289 days


#23 posted 01-31-2017 08:40 PM


once upon a time a long time ago this post came up. I haven t done it, but I am considering it for myself. you can skip through the comments until you hit #13, thats where it gets interesting.

- Shawn Masterson

I remember that thread. Ever since, I’ve been using shellac on my bandsaw table. No rust for two years. And when you’re cutting, the wood glides across.

View MrUnix's profile (online now)

MrUnix

7388 posts in 2594 days


#24 posted 01-31-2017 08:45 PM

I’ve used Boeshield for the last 3 years or so. I spray directly over the table and haven’t noticed any etching at all.
- skatefriday

Boesield T-9? That is essentially just paraffin wax in mineral spirits with a little mineral oil added for good measure. It will not etch metal like the RustFree stuff (phosphoric acid).

And that Corrosion X, based on the MSDS, is just a mix of mineral and dinosaur oil.

Cheers,
Brad

-- Brad in FL - In Dog I trust... everything else is questionable

View CharlesA's profile

CharlesA

3383 posts in 2193 days


#25 posted 01-31-2017 08:58 PM

Thanks for the reminder. I sometimes just say Boeshield when I mean T-9. the Rustfree product, as you noted, is a pretty toxic substance. I’ve only used it on used, rust-covered cast iron. Once I get them cleaned up, I have never used it again.


I’ve used Boeshield for the last 3 years or so. I spray directly over the table and haven’t noticed any etching at all.
- skatefriday

Boesield T-9? That is essentially just paraffin wax in mineral spirits with a little mineral oil added for good measure. It will not etch metal like the RustFree stuff (phosphoric acid).

And that Corrosion X, based on the MSDS, is just a mix of mineral and dinosaur oil.

Cheers,
Brad

- MrUnix


-- "Man is the only animal which devours his own, for I can apply no milder term to the general prey of the rich on the poor." ~Thomas Jefferson

View HorizontalMike's profile

HorizontalMike

7789 posts in 3310 days


#26 posted 01-31-2017 09:43 PM



Thanks for the reminder. I sometimes just say Boeshield when I mean T-9. the Rustfree product, as you noted, is a pretty toxic substance. I ve only used it on used, rust-covered cast iron. Once I get them cleaned up, I have never used it again.
I’ve used Boeshield for the last 3 years or so. I spray directly over the table and haven’t noticed any etching at all.
- skatefriday

Boesield T-9? That is essentially just paraffin wax in mineral spirits with a little mineral oil added for good measure. It will not etch metal like the RustFree stuff (phosphoric acid).
And that Corrosion X, based on the MSDS, is just a mix of mineral and dinosaur oil.
Cheers,
Brad
- MrUnix
- CharlesA

BINGO! THAT is why avoid ”...RUST FREE…”

And absolutely YES, this is in my own opinion… FWIW, I STILL have to clean up my own F__ups. ‘Nuff said…

-- HorizontalMike -- "Woodpeckers understand..."

View TheFridge's profile

TheFridge

10858 posts in 1882 days


#27 posted 01-31-2017 10:06 PM

Mathias wandel of woodgears.ca uses varathane floor finish or something like that.

-- Shooting down the walls of heartache. Bang bang. I am. The warrior.

View Kelly's profile

Kelly

2300 posts in 3340 days


#28 posted 01-31-2017 10:43 PM

So, since mineral oil is a byproduct of fuel production and fuel is made from dead dinos and grass…...

Anyway, though the MSD may state Corrosion X is made using dead dino squeezings, and production of things resulting from using dead dinos, there must be a bit more to it than just tossing mineral oil and Valvoline in a spray bottle with some thinning agent.

Like I mentioned, I polished my table top using granite pads. I used mineral oil as the lube. That wouldn’t have provided much in the way of long term rust protection. I don’t think adding a bit of non-hardening oil would much improve that. Since manufacturers don’t have to give away their trade secrets, there must be a reason it works.

The industrial version remains gooey, but the stuff I posted a picture of doesn’t. Maybe they use polymerized flaxes bred with the dinos.

Anyway, here is a post with a PDF link on some testing of various products. All the tests were done on aluminum, rather than ferrous metal, so results may vary:

“The following is a link to a Duke University study comparing the performance of several corrosion control products:

http://www.tc.faa.gov/logistics/gran...6/96-g-001.pdf

This study only evaluated the top ten corrosion prevention products used by members of the National Air Transportation Association. The National Air Transportation Association members are a group that takes corrosion very seriously. This was a highly controlled test. Not surprisingly WD-40 did not make the cut. I do remember reading the Practical Sailor article before it was locked, and I do remember that some of the top performers are the same as those in the Duke study.”

View Kelly's profile

Kelly

2300 posts in 3340 days


#29 posted 01-31-2017 10:44 PM

Some really interesting solutions to combating rust.

View Kelly's profile

Kelly

2300 posts in 3340 days


#30 posted 01-31-2017 11:02 PM

Here is a site of a guy who did a WHOLE lot of work and expense testing various products. It’s really informative and speaks well of a few, select products (tested among many):

http://www.dayattherange.com/?page_id=3667

[yeah, yeah, yeah, my Corrosion X falls by the wayside]

View Shawn Masterson's profile

Shawn Masterson

1325 posts in 2344 days


#31 posted 02-01-2017 12:06 AM

I was really hoping someone would have some more thoughts about using scalac to prevent rust

View Jake04353's profile

Jake04353

2 posts in 921 days


#32 posted 02-01-2017 01:56 AM

I used to wax quite a few different things, but it never seemed to last long, and sometimes would come off on the wood and/or wear unevenly, meaning that I would have to strip it and reapply. If you don’t have a humidity issue (my shop stays about 50% RH) I wouldn’t even bother. Corn starch makes a great lubrication, is all natural, and doesn’t give off any fumes.

View crank49's profile

crank49

4032 posts in 3366 days


#33 posted 02-01-2017 05:27 AM

Diet Coke contains enough Phosphoric acid to etch rust off a chrome bumper, and is relatively cheap. Just saying.

View skatefriday's profile

skatefriday

452 posts in 1878 days


#34 posted 02-04-2017 06:39 AM



I’ve used Boeshield for the last 3 years or so. I spray directly over the table and haven’t noticed any etching at all.
- skatefriday

Boesield T-9? That is essentially just paraffin wax in mineral spirits with a little mineral oil added for good measure. It will not etch metal like the RustFree stuff (phosphoric acid).

And that Corrosion X, based on the MSDS, is just a mix of mineral and dinosaur oil.

Cheers,
Brad

- MrUnix

Yes. Boeshield T-9. I used Johnson’s for about 6 months and constantly was reapplying and buffing before I ordered some Boeshield. I have no stock in the company, but am a happy customer, regardless of how inexpensive the contents are and the markup the company charges, it’s earned it’s pay.

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