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1.5 HP vs 2 HP Cabinet Saw thoughts

by Lt_scout
posted 01-18-2017 06:56 PM


32 replies so far

View knotscott's profile

knotscott

8406 posts in 4344 days


#1 posted 01-18-2017 09:37 PM

I’m alot less familiar with the Canadian market, but the Stallion looks to be pretty similar to the Craftex CX208, which offers a 2hp motor. Possibly even from the same factory. I do like the black paint job on the Stallion, but once the allure wears off, an extra 33% HP won’t hurt.


-- Happiness is like wetting your pants...everyone can see it, but only you can feel the warmth....

View Carloz's profile

Carloz

1147 posts in 1560 days


#2 posted 01-19-2017 03:53 AM

For the money you could go with Grizzly1023 which is well regarded here. I think they ship to canada. Not sure about import duties
But you Stallion look not bad here http://thewoodworkersnews.com/2015/05/reviewed-cwi-stallion-1-5-hp-10″-cabinet-saw-model-cwi-t1002-w30″-deluxe-fence/

View Lt_scout's profile

Lt_scout

47 posts in 1540 days


#3 posted 01-19-2017 03:14 PM

Thanks guys, I noticed most of these lighter cabinet saws appear to be made very similar. There parts are all made in Taiwan so each company is tweaking their brands with little changes here and there. Much like the band saw market. Grizzly, Delta, Shopfox, they all look the same, just different colors, badges and finishing quality.

-- When you know you can do more with less, you will require less to do more.

View Goodsh's profile

Goodsh

91 posts in 2889 days


#4 posted 03-05-2017 04:19 PM

I’m looking at the same. The Stallion has some good reviews but I think I’d prefer 2hp. According to Busy Bee’s website the table on the CC208 is only 27” x 32”. I thought it might be a typo but it’s stated in two places. That seems tiny for this kind of saw. I can’t find any reviews of the Magnum but it looks exactly like the General 50-200 and on the KMS website even had the same product number. I was thinking about a Grizzly but the shipping plus customs may add a few hundred bucks compared to something I can just pick up at a store here in Calgary.

View firefighterontheside's profile

firefighterontheside

21320 posts in 2825 days


#5 posted 03-05-2017 04:32 PM

The fence on the craftex appears to be the same fence as the shop fox aluma classic, which is a very capable fence. I’ve had it for 10 years.

-- Bill M. "People change, walnut doesn't" by Gene.

View MrUnix's profile

MrUnix

8354 posts in 3168 days


#6 posted 03-05-2017 04:34 PM

According to Busy Bee’s website the table on he CC208 is only 27” x 32”. I thought it might be a typo but it’s stated in two places. That seems tiny for this kind of saw.
- Goodsh

Then I guess you would consider the Unisaw table a bit small at 20” wide by 27” deep.

Cheers,
Brad

-- Brad in FL - In Dog I trust... everything else is questionable

View Lt_scout's profile

Lt_scout

47 posts in 1540 days


#7 posted 03-05-2017 04:45 PM

CWI makes their Stallion in 2HP and 3HP but they’re more money and you’ll need 220V. The 1.5HP is intended for people that want to run on 110V. I could have installed 220V and went with another make but I was sold on the price point and fence quality of the Stallion, a good fence is another $400 if you want to upgrade, I didn’t want to do that. The Magnum and General International’s fence were a bit cheap looking and felt not as good. Also the Magnum’s hight adjustment crank took 3 turns to every 1 turn of the Stallion to adjust height. I’m just a hobby wood worker so I thought the 1.5HP would fine and it has been great, Ive never slowed the blade down. I don’t see myself cutting 4×4 post, stock thicker than a couple inches or logs etc.

-- When you know you can do more with less, you will require less to do more.

View knotscott's profile

knotscott

8406 posts in 4344 days


#8 posted 03-05-2017 05:49 PM


I m looking at the same. The Stallion has some good reviews but I think I d prefer 2hp. According to Busy Bee s website the table on the CC208 is only 27” x 32”. I thought it might be a typo but it s stated in two places. That seems tiny for this kind of saw. I can t find any reviews of the Magnum but it looks exactly like the General 50-200 and on the KMS website even had the same product number. I was thinking about a Grizzly but the shipping plus customs may add a few hundred bucks compared to something I can just pick up at a store here in Calgary.

- Goodsh

Most of these types of saws generally have a main table that’s 27” deep x 20”, plus the width of whatever extension wings are added….usually 10-12” each for an overall width of 40”- 44”. Can’t help but wonder if the 32” is a misprint. You could call the dealer and ask them to measure the overall width of the table and wings.

Also, Craftex and Grizzly are often pretty similar, but Craftex is sold directly in Canada so no customs fees.

-- Happiness is like wetting your pants...everyone can see it, but only you can feel the warmth....

View Goodsh's profile

Goodsh

91 posts in 2889 days


#9 posted 03-05-2017 07:07 PM

Brad, my message wasn’t clear. Their website actually says the 32” width is the entire table including wings. Most hybrids and cabinets are 40 or 44” with the wings. They’re closed today. It I’m going to call tomorrow. Haven’t found any reviews on it yet.

View Goodsh's profile

Goodsh

91 posts in 2889 days


#10 posted 03-05-2017 07:20 PM

Lt_scout, glad to hear you’re happy with the Stallion. It does seem a bit better of a saw overall other than the smaller motor and it has a few very good reviews. I have a poor craftsman job site saw right now and it was okay at first but now has trouble with one inch thick maple now so I’ve been hesitant not to get extra hp.

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Lt_scout

47 posts in 1540 days


#11 posted 03-05-2017 07:30 PM

Right on Goodsh, I had a 3/4 HP Ridgid job site saw, and it was fine for power, it was the fence, controls and lack of table surface that bugged me most. So I wasnt overly concerned about HP with the Stallion. It cuts 1” maple plywood as easy as 1/8” door skin. She’s a lovely saw but one never knows what projects might require that bigger motor. I had the same internal debate when buying my dirtbike, chainsaw, RV, computer, garage door opener… =)

-- When you know you can do more with less, you will require less to do more.

View Goodsh's profile

Goodsh

91 posts in 2889 days


#12 posted 03-05-2017 08:03 PM

Ah yes, don’t get me started…

My craftsman job site saw is advertised as a 15 amp and 3hp which I think has to be a gross exaggeration or number game of some kind. It was a gift and was okay to get me introduced to the hobby but its time has been up for a while.

View knotscott's profile

knotscott

8406 posts in 4344 days


#13 posted 03-05-2017 08:15 PM



Ah yes, don t get me started…

My craftsman job site saw is advertised as a 15 amp and 3hp which I think has to be a gross exaggeration or number game of some kind. It was a gift and was okay to get me introduced to the hobby but its time has been up for a while.

- Goodsh

LOL…..if you read the fine print, it’ll state that 3hp is achieved only when struck by lightning, and only for that brief moment. ;-)

-- Happiness is like wetting your pants...everyone can see it, but only you can feel the warmth....

View firefighterontheside's profile

firefighterontheside

21320 posts in 2825 days


#14 posted 03-05-2017 08:42 PM

Struck by lightning! Lol. Better be fast.

-- Bill M. "People change, walnut doesn't" by Gene.

View Carloz's profile

Carloz

1147 posts in 1560 days


#15 posted 03-05-2017 08:43 PM



Ah yes, don t get me started…

My craftsman job site saw is advertised as a 15 amp and 3hp which I think has to be a gross exaggeration or number game of some kind. It was a gift and was okay to get me introduced to the hobby but its time has been up for a while.

- Goodsh


They probably deliberately underfeed the horses they use to test the horse power of the saw. Should be cited for animal cruelty.

View Goodsh's profile

Goodsh

91 posts in 2889 days


#16 posted 03-05-2017 09:56 PM

Or maybe they used little baby horses… perhaps more accurate to call it 3 “colt power”.

View Ripper70's profile

Ripper70

1379 posts in 1877 days


#17 posted 03-05-2017 10:19 PM



Or maybe they used little baby horses… perhaps more accurate to call it 3 “colt power”.

- Goodsh

No…these are Craftsman horses…

-- "You know, I'm such a great driver, it's incomprehensible that they took my license away." --Vince Ricardo

View BlazerGator's profile

BlazerGator

25 posts in 2158 days


#18 posted 03-05-2017 10:40 PM



3hp is achieved only when struck by lightning, and only for that brief moment. ;-)

- knotscott

At the test facility, I wonder if they plug the saws into the clock tower from Back to the Future.

-- Blaze

View Andre's profile

Andre

4103 posts in 2775 days


#19 posted 03-05-2017 10:53 PM

I believe Craftex is Grizzly, Canadian version owners are brothers? and the Magnum is the rebadged General.
Probably to late but did you check out used? I was about to buy the General a few years
back but came across a Made in the USA, Delta Hybrid with the 1.75 hp, used it for about a year
before switching it to 220V. After upgrading the miter and fence still under $1000.
When I got the saw it wasn’t even fully assembled and there was a Delta tenoning Jig
still in the box, estate sale.

-- Lifting one end of the plank.

View Goodsh's profile

Goodsh

91 posts in 2889 days


#20 posted 03-05-2017 11:28 PM

Ripper70, I don’t think my saw is that powerful… maybe they were measuring how cute the saw is.

Craftsman Tech#1: OMG this saw is so cute!!
Craftsman Tech#2: Right?! It’s as cute as three little ponies.
Craftsman Tech#3: Let’s add that to the spec.

Andre: Have been browsing used for a while and not a lot comes up that I’d want plus I’m wary of the hassle of looking at used, the risk of there being issues, etc. I have little time in the shop as it is and would prefer buying something new that has a warranty and less chance of issues. I hate spending time in the shop fixing stuff or trying to make tools work. Hence replacing the Craftsman.

View bootman6750's profile

bootman6750

8 posts in 1124 days


#21 posted 12-28-2017 08:55 PM

how are you liking your saw im looking at the same one

View Marpel's profile

Marpel

45 posts in 1258 days


#22 posted 12-29-2017 03:08 AM

bootman6750,

If your question is in reference to the Stallion mentioned by the OP, I bought that exact saw a couple months ago. A couple comments:

I researched a number of saws and, from a quality/price perspective, this one edged out the others.
Overall, a pretty good saw (compared to my former General hybrid, a great improvement). Sturdy, and pretty good components.
Although only 1.5 hp (bought specifically so I could run it on 110), it has cut everything I have thrown at it, including inch thick solid Maple.
Pretty good fence (and fence and rails are quite stout).
Dust collection pretty good (has a 4 inch outlet as well as a 2.5 in from the blade itself).
Easy to remove/replace blade guard and riving knife.
Very easy to square up the table to the blade (I bought a reasonably cheap dial indicator that makes it easy peasy).
A lot heavier than my previous saw, but I put it on wheels so it’s easy to move around. Almost impossible to do without wheels.
The worst, and I mean WORST, part of the whole purchase, was the manual, which affected set-up. The manual is an embarrassment to the company and, in fact, mine was labelled for a completely different brand saw. Grammar, spelling and accuracy was atrocious. The instructions for attaching the front and rear rails were wrong and should not be followed – the bolts are all backward and do not fit in the prescribed spots (but reasonably easy to figure out which ones to use). I brought up the deplorable manual with store employees (one of whom was the owners son I think) and they didn’t seem too concerned.

A last thought, in all the conversations I’ve had with various employees over this saw and other items, I get the distinct impression they are going away from the home hobbiest products to high end commercial stuff. I could be wrong, but I only suggest, that if you are contemplating picking this saw up, I wouldn’t put it off for too long as it may not be available some time down the road.

Hope this helps,

Marv

View Lt_scout's profile

Lt_scout

47 posts in 1540 days


#23 posted 12-29-2017 04:50 PM

bootman6750

I did end up buying this saw and I agree with all your points. The manual is garbage and you’ll have to have a basic understanding of cabinet saw assembly to build it. Luckily there are a few Youtube videos on how to build a General and Grizzley etc that will get you going. These saws are all made in China with slight proprietary mods so they all go together the same.

Now that I have had the saw for about a year and half I can say it was well worth the money. Accurate fence system, nice casting quality, looks great.

I have blown the breaker switch a few times trying to resaw thick maple so one must take it slow on thick stock. Which is a point I should bring up…

I’m a hobby woodworker and thought I would never need the power of a 220V machine and 2+ HP motor. I now see that I was wrong. I have found that thinning out reclaimed hardwood does require more power than the 110V motor if you’re going to raise the saw blade up all the way to resaw. This saw does force you to cut material in steps, cut-raise blade, cut raise blade etc. Not a big deal if your not a production shop.

I added a router table to the right side, extended the left wing a few inches and added a 10” wide outfeed table.

Great saw, 9/10

-- When you know you can do more with less, you will require less to do more.

View bootman6750's profile

bootman6750

8 posts in 1124 days


#24 posted 12-29-2017 07:36 PM

how thick have you cut with it
it says 15 amp do you have it wired to a 20 amp i know it can be converted to 240 as they have mentioned
iam the same just using it for hobby not sure if should go to 2 hp or not if it would even be that much better

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bootman6750

8 posts in 1124 days


#25 posted 12-29-2017 07:41 PM

Marpel
how thick of stock have you cut with it

View Lt_scout's profile

Lt_scout

47 posts in 1540 days


#26 posted 12-29-2017 08:18 PM

Yes I put it on a dedicated 20A breaker and it does occasionally trip… but I have to say when it does trip it’s usually because I screwed up and allowed stock to go through askew and it jammed against the fence and blade or I cut a 2×4 on a sled and it pinched the blade due to not shimming the other side of the blade. Mistakes I’m not likely to repeat (unsafe) so in a way it acts as my poor man’s Sawstop, Ha! just kidding of course. No regrets, if feel I need a 220V 2HP+, I’d probably go 3HP but that means I’m doing a hell of a lot of woodworking, possibly production work… which isnt foreseeable.

...i have cut material as high as the blade goes but that would have to be softwoods, hardwood 3” cuts would be ok for regular cross cuts but resawing this would flip the breaker, best to make a few passes for that. I use a quality CMT general purpose blade

-- When you know you can do more with less, you will require less to do more.

View bootman6750's profile

bootman6750

8 posts in 1124 days


#27 posted 12-29-2017 08:34 PM

thats what i figd 20 amp, seems like the saw is quite enuff for what im going to do just for hobby stuff and i ahve been talking quite a bit with them via email as im in ontario and they have been great
my visit to busy bee wasnt worth it lol rather pay the 150 for delivery for a great product

View Marpel's profile

Marpel

45 posts in 1258 days


#28 posted 12-30-2017 03:56 AM

As mentioned earlier, I regularely cut 1 inch solid stock maple with no problem, plus I made a few cuts in very short 3 inch maple (so only taxed the motor for short bursts) and it seemed to handle it all well enough. The majority of other stuff has been plywood and mdf.

And I run it on a 20 amp circuit. Have not tried it on 15 amp.

Marv

View bootman6750's profile

bootman6750

8 posts in 1124 days


#29 posted 12-30-2017 01:27 PM



As mentioned earlier, I regularely cut 1 inch solid stock maple with no problem, plus I made a few cuts in very short 3 inch maple (so only taxed the motor for short bursts) and it seemed to handle it all well enough. The majority of other stuff has been plywood and mdf.

And I run it on a 20 amp circuit. Have not tried it on 15 amp.

Marv thanks for the info much appreciated Happy New Year
- Marpel


View bootman6750's profile

bootman6750

8 posts in 1124 days


#30 posted 12-30-2017 01:28 PM



Yes I put it on a dedicated 20A breaker and it does occasionally trip… but I have to say when it does trip it s usually because I screwed up and allowed stock to go through askew and it jammed against the fence and blade or I cut a 2×4 on a sled and it pinched the blade due to not shimming the other side of the blade. Mistakes I m not likely to repeat (unsafe) so in a way it acts as my poor man s Sawstop, Ha! just kidding of course. No regrets, if feel I need a 220V 2HP+, I d probably go 3HP but that means I m doing a hell of a lot of woodworking, possibly production work… which isnt foreseeable.

...i have cut material as high as the blade goes but that would have to be softwoods, hardwood 3” cuts would be ok for regular cross cuts but resawing this would flip the breaker, best to make a few passes for that. I use a quality CMT general purpose blade

- Lt_scout

thanks for the info and reply much appreciated
Happy New Year

View Goodsh's profile

Goodsh

91 posts in 2889 days


#31 posted 12-30-2017 03:46 PM

I looked at the same saw but ended up getting the Craftex CX208 and an pretty happy with it. I have a suggestion for the manual. I shopped around a lot at the time and discovered that the CX208, General International 50-200, Magnum 50-200 (KMS Tools in house brand) and the Stallion are essentially the exact same saw (minor differences – stallion is 1.5 hp and has a slightly better fence). KMS and Canadian Woodworker developed their own brands using General designs and (they told me) the same factory. The saws all look the same and the diagrams are identical. The Craftex manual was okay. The Magnum and the General manuals are available online so I printed them off as well. None of them are great on their own but put them together and they make a decent manual. There were things completely missing from mine that were perfectly covered by others. Links:

https://m.kmstools.com/images/pdfs/manuals/MI-51100M.pdf

http://www.general.ca/pdf/machines/50_tablesaw/50-200R_ENG.pdf

View Lt_scout's profile

Lt_scout

47 posts in 1540 days


#32 posted 12-30-2017 06:52 PM


I looked at the same saw but ended up getting the Craftex CX208 and an pretty happy with it. I have a suggestion for the manual. I shopped around a lot at the time and discovered that the CX208, General International 50-200, Magnum 50-200 (KMS Tools in house brand) and the Stallion are essentially the exact same saw (minor differences – stallion is 1.5 hp and has a slightly better fence). KMS and Canadian Woodworker developed their own brands using General designs and (they told me) the same factory. The saws all look the same and the diagrams are identical. The Craftex manual was okay. The Magnum and the General manuals are available online so I printed them off as well. None of them are great on their own but put them together and they make a decent manual. There were things completely missing from mine that were perfectly covered by others. Links:

https://m.kmstools.com/images/pdfs/manuals/MI-51100M.pdf

http://www.general.ca/pdf/machines/50_tablesaw/50-200R_ENG.pdf

- Goodsh

Yes this was my observation also, I looked at the KMS Magnum 1.5 HP and liked the fence on the stallion better. I have to say though, The Stallion fence is great once it’s working but required drilling of holes in the thick angle iron rails, the stock holes did not line-up on the tapped holes and through holes of the cast iron table. The fence glides on these L shaped rails, there are more holes on the rear rails than matching holes on the table.

This part of the saw assembly was disappointing and the fence instructions were garbage along with the saw assembly instructions.

Canadian Woodworkers, who sells this saw really need to provide customers with better instructions and notify their Chinese partners of their production flaws.

I was reminded of all these issues when I disassembled the fence and rails to install an outfield table.

Great saw, but if someone is just starting out woodworking and is of less mechanical inclination, they would have cursed the set-up of this saw.

-- When you know you can do more with less, you will require less to do more.

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