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"I Need a 3HP 1PH motor for PM66" Solved by going to the source

by Bradford
posted 02-21-2010 10:53 PM


35 replies so far

View Ger21's profile

Ger21

1087 posts in 3636 days


#1 posted 02-21-2010 10:57 PM

You may be able to get a VFD to run the 3 phase motor from single phase.

-- Gerry, http://www.thecncwoodworker.com/index.html http://www.jointcam.com

View davidpettinger's profile

davidpettinger

661 posts in 3706 days


#2 posted 02-21-2010 11:54 PM

Have you thought about a phase converter for the saw? For about $200, you can buy a phase converter that will allow you to run 3 ph on a single phase. Give the guys at Grizzly Industrial a call, they can probably help you out and answer some questions you may have. I have installed them for bigger motors 20 hp and up and they work great. Takes a little while for the motor to wind up but saves thousands for a new motor or even more for a electrical service upgrade.

-- Methods are many,Principles are few.Methods change often,Principles never do.

View Bradford's profile

Bradford

1434 posts in 4328 days


#3 posted 02-22-2010 12:12 AM

VFD? I’m sorry, I’m not sure what that is, but I am sure glad you read my query and at least this points me in another direction. Thanks Gerry. I just went to wikipedia and looked it. It looks like my answer. Thnks.

-- so much wood, so little time. Bradford. Wood-a-holics unanimous president

View Bradford's profile

Bradford

1434 posts in 4328 days


#4 posted 02-22-2010 12:14 AM

Thanks Unionlabel

-- so much wood, so little time. Bradford. Wood-a-holics unanimous president

View SnowyRiver's profile

SnowyRiver

51458 posts in 3986 days


#5 posted 02-22-2010 12:30 AM

It might be easier to get a rotary phase coverter and leave the 3 phase motor in the saw. You would just need one big enough to power the saw.

-- Wayne - Plymouth MN

View lwllms's profile

lwllms

555 posts in 3787 days


#6 posted 02-22-2010 12:45 AM

C flange motors are far from obsolete. These aren’t like the motors on Unisaws where the motor mount only fits the Unisaw. Amazon stocks the 3 hp motor for the 66 but they’re expensive.

http://www.amazon.com/Powermatic-6472335-Horsepower-Replacement-230-Volt/dp/B0009H5KEK

View John Ormsby's profile

John Ormsby

1288 posts in 4242 days


#7 posted 02-22-2010 01:54 AM

Ebay can be a good source for them. Make sure they are single phase and the RPM is correct.

-- Oldworld, Fair Oaks, Ca

View Bradford's profile

Bradford

1434 posts in 4328 days


#8 posted 02-22-2010 02:10 AM

Thanks Wayne, I verified with and electrician friend, Then checked pricing, at $500 for the one need, I think I’ll try the baldor motor on Amazon, if powermatic comp. rep verifies the perfect fit.
Thanks lwllms, I will look at the motor and confirm with Powermatic on Monday just to be on the 100% side.
Thanks John, I will.
Thank you everyone for this help, it has put my mind at ease that I didn’t waste the money. Wish me luck.

-- so much wood, so little time. Bradford. Wood-a-holics unanimous president

View davidroberts's profile

davidroberts

1027 posts in 3991 days


#9 posted 02-22-2010 02:50 AM

you bit off a problem. a fixable problem, but a problem nontheless. so did I about a year ago. I bought a 2hp 3ph jointer. i’d recommend you head on over to www.owwm.com and search VFD – Variable Frequency Drive. They have some wiring diagrams you will probably need. I assume you have a magnetic starter. Also check with the guys at Factorymation. http://www.factorymation.com/

They talk to 4 or 5 folks like you and me every day about this problem. Those who bite before they know what they are biting. Make sure you write down all of the information on your motor tag. Factorymtion will ask a bunch of motor questions. They will likely recommend something from their TECO FM 50 line of AC drivers ($150 to $250). This is really who you need to be talking to if you have no choice but to keep the 3phase motor. Good luck.

-- Better woodworking through old hand tools.

View lwllms's profile

lwllms

555 posts in 3787 days


#10 posted 02-22-2010 05:42 AM

A variable frequency drive for $200 plus or minus would be a much better investment than a new single phase motor and new magnetic controls. I hope Bradford takes the time to check this out. I’ve bookmarked the factorymation site for my own future use.

View Bradford's profile

Bradford

1434 posts in 4328 days


#11 posted 02-24-2010 01:52 PM

UPDATE: I called the friendly staff of POWERMATIC, and asked about my problem. They informed me that they still carry the 3HP 1Ph motor and switch box. All for about the same cost as the VFD.

  • Being that my saw was bought from an auction house, where I couldn’t verify the motor worked, the power supply in my garage can’t handle 3PH, I elected to purchase the motor directly from Powermatic, vs buying the VFD and then finding out that the old motor was bad, then having to buy another motor anyway. (kind of like when you change a tire, you’d rather put the correct fit back on vs a dinky little spare)
  • I will update this when I’ve installed the new motor.

I hope that this will help any future LJ’s if they run into this situation.

-- so much wood, so little time. Bradford. Wood-a-holics unanimous president

View woody57's profile

woody57

650 posts in 3932 days


#12 posted 02-25-2010 04:57 AM

Sounds like you made the right choice. Hope it all works out for you.

-- Emmett, from Georgia

View jayjay's profile

jayjay

639 posts in 3551 days


#13 posted 02-25-2010 03:07 PM

It might be worth you while to check with Grainger Industrial Supply. They sell replacement motors for all sorts of things. I picked up a 3HP single phase motor for my old unisaw.

-- ~Jason~ , Albuquerque NM

View davidroberts's profile

davidroberts

1027 posts in 3991 days


#14 posted 02-27-2010 07:10 AM

You made the very best choice, even if you have to pay more. The VFD is just one more thing that can go wrong.

-- Better woodworking through old hand tools.

View Bradford's profile

Bradford

1434 posts in 4328 days


#15 posted 03-18-2010 03:26 AM

I, with the supreme help from my friend Cam, finished installing a new motor and a new magnetic switch. I bought them from Powermatic, who were still cheaper than anyone else. I cleaned / sanded everything on the inside and out. I used 80 grit sand paper on a random orbital sander. Sanded down the whole thing to bare metal, repainted each side of the base with “Hammered metal deep Green” from Rust-o-leum. It was the closest color to the original green that was used 33 years ago. I spent about a week scraping, grinding and sanding the inside in order to get it back to a pre-pitched state. The top was sanded and then steel wool was used to smooth out the scratches. Johnson’s paste wax was used to make the top slick. The rails and fence were reinstalled. A zero clearance insert and push stick were made. The Incra miter gauge 100SE was calibrated and installed. A flicker page was created to show the process. The web page displays them from the finished state going backward to the original state. I hope this will help anyone who wants to buy and restore an old PM66 table saw. here is the link http://www.flickr.com/photos/bradfordwoodworks/

-- so much wood, so little time. Bradford. Wood-a-holics unanimous president

View SnowyRiver's profile

SnowyRiver

51458 posts in 3986 days


#16 posted 03-18-2010 04:10 AM

Very nice job…looks like new.

-- Wayne - Plymouth MN

View Chris 's profile

Chris

1880 posts in 4496 days


#17 posted 03-18-2010 04:31 AM

That paint was a near perfect match… nice work. Out of curiosity, where id you get the saw? If you don’t mind my asking?

-- "Everything that is great and inspiring is created by the individual who labors in freedom" -- Albert Einstein

View 559dustdesigns's profile

559dustdesigns

633 posts in 3673 days


#18 posted 03-18-2010 08:49 AM

Nice job! You made the right choice, picking up a new motor and switch. I’d be proud of a restoration like that.

-- Aaron - central California "If you haven't got the time to do it right, when will you find the time to do it over?"

View Chuck Shellem's profile

Chuck Shellem

36 posts in 3499 days


#19 posted 03-18-2010 04:10 PM

Wow, Bradford. I’d say you managed to chew that big bite pretty nicely. There is nothing like the feeling of satisfaction you get from a job like that.

-- -- Chuck S.

View okwoodshop's profile

okwoodshop

448 posts in 3680 days


#20 posted 03-18-2010 09:52 PM

Bradford, my hats off to you for a great restore job. I had to replace a trunnion on a grizzly table saw once and my hair still hasn’t grown back. Can’t imagine all the work you went through.If you do that good of a job on your woodworking projects you will be a pro.

View webwood's profile

webwood

626 posts in 3755 days


#21 posted 03-18-2010 10:03 PM

wow – awsome job

-- -erik & christy-

View Bradford's profile

Bradford

1434 posts in 4328 days


#22 posted 03-18-2010 10:34 PM

Chris, check out www.irsauctions.com. They have auctions all over the states. My table saw was in a group of about 10 sold. The most anyone paid was $650 for a Powermatic 66. They had some lumber, 100’s of board feet of it, that went for only about 50 cents a board foot. They have more than just woodworking equipment. They also auction office, warehouse, restaurant and more. I’m watching for dust collectors next. If you decide to bid, you don’t have to bid high like eBay, most stuff goes for less than you could get anywhere else. Let me know how your search goes.

-- so much wood, so little time. Bradford. Wood-a-holics unanimous president

View Bob Fowkes's profile

Bob Fowkes

36 posts in 3133 days


#23 posted 02-02-2012 06:42 PM

Did the same (dumb?) thing, buying a PM 66 at auction with a 5HP, 3-phase motor, also via IRS. Clicked the button on my $450 bid after quickly scanning this thread, now I hope I can figure out how best to get to a happy ending.

(This is after wasting the better part of 2 days at a live auction in Rhode Island, where the vintage Unisaws and PM tablesaws went for much more.)

-- Bob

View Scot's profile

Scot

344 posts in 3901 days


#24 posted 02-04-2012 10:08 AM

Check out Tractors Supply. I was very surprised at how inexpensive their have 3 and 5 HP motors are. And they keep a fair amount in stock. They have 5 HP 1 ph baldor motors for $200.

-- If the old masters had power tools, they would have used them. So get off your damn High Horse.

View Bradford's profile

Bradford

1434 posts in 4328 days


#25 posted 02-04-2012 02:27 PM

$669.00 from WMH tool group Inc. (Powermatic’s parent company)

WMH TOOL GROUP

Ph.: (800-274-6848) www.wmhtoolgroup.com

I’ve found that every part that I needed, was cheaper to go to the source. Give them the serial # off the saw so they can match the exact part you need.

-- so much wood, so little time. Bradford. Wood-a-holics unanimous president

View mmToolPart's profile

mmToolPart

2 posts in 355 days


#26 posted 10-24-2018 05:55 PM

I’m pretty late to this thread, but I just finished converting a PM66 from 3 phase power to single phase. To complete this project I replaced the motor and switch. It was a simple process once I found the appropriate wiring diagrams and figured out how to remove the motor.

I actually made a how-to video and posted it to YouTube since I couldn’t really find anything about this online. If you’re new to electrical like me, this video should help get you started:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A0Cq9p-FA3Q

Here are links to the parts I used – www.mmToolParts.com is the largest distributor of Powermatic table saw motors in the world! As such they get better prices they pass on to customers, this is the lowest price you’ll find on these parts and they come directly from the Powermatic warehouse:

-Single Phase 3hp Switch:
https://www.mmtoolparts.com/store/powermatic-6816292-starter-3hp-1-ph

-Single Phase 3hp Motor:
https://www.mmtoolparts.com/store/powermatic-tablesaw-motor-6472028

Also, here is a link to the wiring diagrams:

-Operating Instructions and Parts Manual (Wiring Diagrams):
https://www.mmtoolparts.com/store/media/diagram/files/66.pdf

Hope this helps!!

-Logan

View shampeon's profile

shampeon

1900 posts in 2689 days


#27 posted 10-24-2018 06:22 PM

As long as we’re resurrecting old threads with new info, I’ll point out that a VFD for a 3 phase 3HP motor is around $150-200, well less than the $500 or so for a new 1ph 3 HP motor from Powermatic or Grainger or Tractor Supply. Just FYI.

-- ian | "You can't stop what's coming. It ain't all waiting on you. That's vanity."

View MrUnix's profile

MrUnix

7478 posts in 2704 days


#28 posted 10-24-2018 07:28 PM

As long as we re resurrecting old threads with new info, I ll point out that a VFD for a 3 phase 3HP motor is around $150-200, well less than the $500 or so for a new 1ph 3 HP motor from Powermatic or Grainger or Tractor Supply. Just FYI.
- shampeon

Plus, a three phase motor is much more robust (no start circuits, centrifugal switches, capacitors, etc…) and you get all sorts of extra benefits from the VFD such as soft start, controlled braking, multiple speeds (for plastics, non-ferrous metals and such), maintained speed under load, constant torque and over torquing, and way more. As an added bonus, you can get rid of the existing starter and sell it to recover most, if not all, of the cost for the VFD :)

Cheers,
Brad

-- Brad in FL - In Dog I trust... everything else is questionable

View dt31's profile

dt31

2 posts in 277 days


#29 posted 01-10-2019 02:38 AM

I have just realized that I’ve done the exact same thing.
I bought a PM66 that was in great condition from a cabinet shop. Paid $650 for the saw. I did my what I thought was descent research about swapping the motor out or adding a VFD to power the 3phase 5hp motor. What I’ve quickly realized is there are only two frame size motors that will fit this saw (184c and 145t). The cheapest I can find a replacement motor is powermatic for close to $600 for the motor and switch. I then decided to go the vfd route as I didn’t want to spend much more for the saw. The vfd’s are extremely expensive. You must buy a 7.5-10hp vfd with 35amp to power it and they are $800+.
I’m at a loss as to what to do other than turn around and sell the dang saw that I just brought home!
I would be willing to spend $200-$300 for a motor or vfd but it doesn’t look like that is possible.
Any ideas?

View avsmusic1's profile

avsmusic1

527 posts in 1190 days


#30 posted 01-10-2019 02:58 AM


I have just realized that I’ve done the exact same thing.
I bought a PM66 that was in great condition from a cabinet shop. Paid $650 for the saw. I did my what I thought was descent research about swapping the motor out or adding a VFD to power the 3phase 5hp motor. What I’ve quickly realized is there are only two frame size motors that will fit this saw (184c and 145t). The cheapest I can find a replacement motor is powermatic for close to $600 for the motor and switch. I then decided to go the vfd route as I didn’t want to spend much more for the saw. The vfd’s are extremely expensive. You must buy a 7.5-10hp vfd with 35amp to power it and they are $800+.
I’m at a loss as to what to do other than turn around and sell the dang saw that I just brought home!
I would be willing to spend $200-$300 for a motor or vfd but it doesn’t look like that is possible.
Any ideas?

- dt31


Hopefully brad (mrunix) circles back but if u hunt through his prior posts you’re likely to find some helpful info.
OWWM.org is a treasure trove too

View MrUnix's profile

MrUnix

7478 posts in 2704 days


#31 posted 01-10-2019 04:42 AM

I would be willing to spend $200-$300 for a motor or vfd but it doesn’t look like that is possible.
Any ideas?
- dt31

Here you go… Westinghouse drive under $200 (V/hz type): FM50-203-C
or a hair more for a sensorless vector drive type: L510-203-H1-U

There are also plenty more brand name models out there for more cash, or you can take your chances and get cheaper noname brands from the bay.

Cheers,
Brad

-- Brad in FL - In Dog I trust... everything else is questionable

View dt31's profile

dt31

2 posts in 277 days


#32 posted 01-12-2019 04:02 AM

This is the problem I keep running into. When I did my research “yes” you can find drives all over the place for less than $200 if your motor is 3hp or below. But to start a 5hp, you must go up to at least a 7.5-10hp drive. That increases the cost a lot. I found one on eBay…7.5KW 10HP VARIABLE FREQUENCY DRIVE VFD SINGLE SPEED CLOSE-LOOP INVERTER VSD 34A from zb-living but I hate to buy some noname product off eBay “especially” when the price is only $175 and everywhere else I’ve checked is $600 and up. Seems too good to be true.

View MrUnix's profile

MrUnix

7478 posts in 2704 days


#33 posted 01-12-2019 04:26 AM

When I did my research “yes” you can find drives all over the place for less than $200 if your motor is 3hp or below. But to start a 5hp, you must go up to at least a 7.5-10hp drive.

First off – Ignore the HP ratings, as they are just marketing hype. Size based on FLA.
Second – for a table saw, it will rarely (if ever) see FLA.
Third – a VFD can maintain up to about 150% of rated output for 30-60 seconds if really pushed

Plenty of people running 5hp motors on those ‘3hp’ drives… here is one such example (at OWWM):
5 HP 12/14 saw with 3 HP VFD

Your other alternatives are to get a rotary phase converter, which will cost more; or a static phase converter that will cost less, but will reduce output by roughly 1/3rd (and can/will cause damage to the motor depending on usage patterns).

Cheers,
Brad

-- Brad in FL - In Dog I trust... everything else is questionable

View Toolhoarder86's profile

Toolhoarder86

4 posts in 268 days


#34 posted 01-23-2019 03:32 AM

How much did the motor and controls cost?

-- There’s always a bigger tool.

View MrRon's profile

MrRon

5714 posts in 3749 days


#35 posted 01-23-2019 10:38 PM

Check http://www.surpluscenter.com. They have lots of motors at good prices

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