LumberJocks

All Replies on Are new biesemeyer fence systems garbage?

  • Advertise with us
View Luthierman's profile

Are new biesemeyer fence systems garbage?

by Luthierman
posted 08-31-2016 11:16 PM


28 replies so far

View Woodknack's profile

Woodknack

12817 posts in 2776 days


#1 posted 09-01-2016 12:19 AM

Who knows. There are people who bash Delta like it’s their job.

-- Rick M, http://thewoodknack.blogspot.com/

View distrbd's profile

distrbd

2252 posts in 2842 days


#2 posted 09-01-2016 01:19 AM

I bought my new Biesemeyer fence in 2013 and it is a very reliable fence ,can’t compare it to an older version since it is the only one I own but the welds are evenly spaced, done nicely and look clean,the fence itself functions as it should(so does the clamp) , based on my experience ,it is a well built/decent fence, have no regrets.

-- Ken from Ontario, Canada

View MikesProjects's profile

MikesProjects

172 posts in 2297 days


#3 posted 09-01-2016 03:32 AM

I will ignore negative reviews about biesemeyer, they have been at it for how many decades? I trust they will keep up the good quality products they have been producing since the beginning. Heres my take on some reviewers in general. Any product can apply here. You may get a few reviewers that “think” they know what they are talking about but the truth is they don’t have the hands on experience to really know the difference especially if a product cost a pretty penny. Yes, Rick M. has a point about the bashers. Like Chevy trucks, Biesemeyer is & always will be preferred in my shop… Not to get off topic here but I dont care for Sawstops ics t-square fence, the big red knobs drive my crazy, they feel rubbery & dirty but the fence is good & heavy duty. I like biesemeyers hard plastic black knobs on their fences.

-- -Mike, Southern California, YouTube User ( Give & Take )

View rick1955's profile

rick1955

264 posts in 1826 days


#4 posted 09-01-2016 04:31 AM

http://vsctools.com/shop/product-category/table-saw-fence/
Vega is still highly rated.

-- Working smarter with less tools is a true crafts person...

View vkumar's profile

vkumar

10 posts in 3032 days


#5 posted 09-01-2016 05:06 AM

Jesse, I do have an old version (new in box). The box is in bad shape, but the fence is in good condition. The only problem is that I am in CA and you are in Indiana. Shipping would be a killer.

Vijay, Sunnyvale, CA

View Woodchuck2010's profile

Woodchuck2010

727 posts in 1254 days


#6 posted 09-01-2016 02:15 PM


http://vsctools.com/shop/product-category/table-saw-fence/
Vega is still highly rated.

- rick1955

I bought just the machined aluminum extrusion from them,( vsctools), and attached it to my fence using their t-nuts. It’s very very flat and accurate.

-- Chuck, Michigan,

View Luthierman's profile

Luthierman

222 posts in 1483 days


#7 posted 09-01-2016 11:06 PM

That’s a good idea, Chuck. My coworker contacted the VSCT guys way back when and they hooked him up with the supplier for the extrusions, before they had a store that is. I bet I can get them at cost. That’d be sweet.

I think I will try the route of checking our local dealer to see if they have a line on the USA made versions of the Biese. After doing some looking around the webs, they do still exist. On new unisaws. Not so much for the aftermarket crowd. It doesn’t mean its impossible though. If not, I am going to roll the dice on what gets to my door. The main reason I want to get a biese, is that it will bolt right up to my uni, no mods necessary.

-- Jesse, West Lafayette, Indiana

View MadMark's profile

MadMark

979 posts in 1848 days


#8 posted 09-01-2016 11:12 PM

Incra


Sez the man whose saw shows some use . . .

M

-- Madmark - [email protected] Wiretreefarm.com

View Luthierman's profile

Luthierman

222 posts in 1483 days


#9 posted 09-01-2016 11:17 PM

I thought about the Incra too. It is a pretty rad setup. Kind of takes up a lot of space though. This is a surprisingly difficult decision. Can you flip flop the Incra 180 degrees? Like if I had a router table built into my extension table? Also, how well does an extension table work with the rail system?

-- Jesse, West Lafayette, Indiana

View MadMark's profile

MadMark

979 posts in 1848 days


#10 posted 09-02-2016 12:51 AM

Yes and perfectly. Maxed config:

The router in the side is great. The fence can be flipped and returned with ease. The kit includes extra brackets if you need a split rail or other special config.

I use a Milwaukee 3-1/2 hp plunge router instead of a router lift. The router lifts up & out with ease:

Setting both the saw & router is helped by $50 height gauge:

All the above gives me fast, precise, repeatable setups and cuts.

M

-- Madmark - [email protected] Wiretreefarm.com

View Paul's profile

Paul

721 posts in 1961 days


#11 posted 09-02-2016 12:57 PM

http://chicago.craigslist.org/nwc/tls/5759322327.html

There’s a delta contractor saw with a unifence for sale on CL for $200. Might be an option for ya.

Paul

View MrRon's profile

MrRon

5501 posts in 3639 days


#12 posted 09-02-2016 05:36 PM

The new Biesemeyer fences are a bit different from the original ones from the 1980’s. I have had the first one on my Jet saw and it is still as accurate as it was out of the box. I can’t answer for the new ones. There is a site that sells the Biesemeyer fence as a kit, so you can custom make your own fence. I don’t have the name of the site, but maybe someone else here can provide it. There have been clones of the Biesemeyer fence and I don’t know how good they are. Exacta is one of them.

View MrUnix's profile

MrUnix

7388 posts in 2594 days


#13 posted 09-03-2016 12:34 AM

I don’t have any first hand experience with the newer T2/T3 systems… but traditionally, Biesemeyer offered two different fences – the Commercial version, and the “Home Shop” version. The fence itself was basically the same but the guide tube and rails were a bit beefier. Here is a snippet from the Biesemeyer web site FAQ (from back around 2002):

I’m sure moving production overseas and the general industry cost cutting measures didn’t help much, but they are still considered by many to be the standard.

Cheers,
Brad

-- Brad in FL - In Dog I trust... everything else is questionable

View Putttn's profile

Putttn

122 posts in 2674 days


#14 posted 09-03-2016 01:09 PM

I also have the Incra setup on my SS 1.75 PCS and I love it. I’ve found in my 72 years that you’re better off buying the best you can afford and not have to wish you had bought it. If I didn’t have the Incra I’d go for Very Super Cool Tools fence. Allen (askwoodman.com) has some really cool well though out products and videos on how to and fully explains his new fence system. Similar to Woodchuck2010 setup.

-- Bill eastern Washington Home of beloved ZAGS

View DDWW's profile

DDWW

100 posts in 1022 days


#15 posted 09-09-2016 02:03 PM

I bought a Beismeyer fence this spring from Home Depot as I had a gift card. I put it on my 70’s era Unisaw and it works well. It bolts right on to the Unisaw. No time no drilling and potential mistakes. It locks up solid and can be adjusted easily square to the blade. Their packaging is for shit and the boxes are open on the ends but some how all the parts are fine and in good condition.

The Beiesmeyer doesn’t have a an adjustment to set the fence 90 degrees to the table top. You have to adjust the guide rails which is heavy and cumbersome. It would be nice if they improved the face of the fence to accept Jigs so I don’t have to drill to mount t-track

I had an old Vega on my Powermatic and It flexed at the rear of the fence. I don’t have that issue on the beismeyer. It wasn’t a nightmare but I could never get it to hold square to the blade. Their micro adjust was useful but not a deal breaker for me. It would have to be a bargain for me to consider it.

I”d like the VSC extrusion, but not enough to buy it.

Look at the elegant solution but HUTCH here on lumber jocks.

http://lumberjocks.com/Hutch/blog/2740

View bkseitz's profile

bkseitz

295 posts in 1705 days


#16 posted 09-10-2016 01:33 PM

Bought an M 1050 Accusquare Fence from Mule Cabinetmaker to replace my OEM Fence on my Craftsman Contractor Saw.

I had considered a Beiesmeyer till I saw the price—low budget here and was just starting out. Price was very attractive. The locking mechanism is a screw knob rather than a level, however I actually like that better than a spring lever.

I’ve had it several years now and I am still very happy with it. Easy to adjust, stays in place when locking down. Only down side is I wish the fence was a little higher. I may swap out the existing extrusion for an 4” x 2” one if I find that I really like the height all the time

-- bkseitz, Washington "if everything is going well, you've obviously overlooked something"

View OggieOglethorpe's profile

OggieOglethorpe

1276 posts in 2506 days


#17 posted 09-10-2016 02:20 PM

The Beiesmeyer doesn’t have a an adjustment to set the fence 90 degrees to the table top.

Many clones, like the version included with my SS ICS do have such an adjustment. There are two setscrews in the “carriage” that face the ceiling. You can adjust the face angle is seconds. My Kreg bandsaw fence has a similar setup, so you can also reference that if you’re looking for an example in a store.

This adjustment could be easily added to many existing versions with a drill and tap, some nylon setscrews, and maybe some thin UHMW “feet”.

I use a ton of shop-built fence riding appliances, and a lot of the additions in this thread, and the Incra make them either painfully annoying or impossible to use.

View MrUnix's profile

MrUnix

7388 posts in 2594 days


#18 posted 09-10-2016 06:50 PM

The Beiesmeyer doesn’t have a an adjustment to set the fence 90 degrees to the table top.
- DDWW

I can’t imagine any circumstance where such an adjustment would be useful other than to correct for a manufacturing defect… and if your guide tube/rails are out of alignment (not parallel to the table top), changing the fence face angle isn’t going to compensate for that.

Cheers,
Brad

-- Brad in FL - In Dog I trust... everything else is questionable

View Luthierman's profile

Luthierman

222 posts in 1483 days


#19 posted 09-10-2016 07:10 PM


I can t imagine any circumstance where such an adjustment would be useful other than to correct for a manufacturing defect… and if your guide tube/rails are out of alignment (not parallel to the table top), changing the fence face angle isn t going to compensate for that.

Cheers,
Brad

- MrUnix


Sometimes I purposefully take the fence out of parallel to help avoid kick back, especially when ripping pieces of treated lumber or questionable yellow pine. I will want the fence to be further away from the blade in the rear than it is in the front. Its a great way to prevent blade pinch. At least this is what the old timers in the shop taught me, and the older old timers taught them. Seems like a pretty legitimate use of that adjustment.

-- Jesse, West Lafayette, Indiana

View Luthierman's profile

Luthierman

222 posts in 1483 days


#20 posted 09-10-2016 07:12 PM

Whoops, wait. Bad reading skills. Brad, you are talking about a completely different plane than I am.

-- Jesse, West Lafayette, Indiana

View MrUnix's profile

MrUnix

7388 posts in 2594 days


#21 posted 09-10-2016 07:14 PM

Sometimes I purposefully take the fence out of parallel to help avoid kick back, especially when ripping pieces of treated lumber or questionable yellow pine. I will want the fence to be further away from the blade in the rear than it is in the front. Its a great way to prevent blade pinch. At least this is what the old timers in the shop taught me, and the older old timers taught them. Seems like a pretty legitimate use of that adjustment.
- Luthierman

What you describe above is absolutely possible, but not what I believe what the original comment was about – that is having the fence face 90 degrees up/down from the table top. Different adjustment.

Cheers,
Brad

-- Brad in FL - In Dog I trust... everything else is questionable

View Luthierman's profile

Luthierman

222 posts in 1483 days


#22 posted 09-10-2016 07:22 PM

This has been a surprisingly difficult decision. I am to the point where I am going to make my own rail system and throw down some coin for a very super cool tools fence. Unless of course I can find an older one locally, which I may have. It is incomplete, but has the fence, and the angle, but not the box tubing or the rear rail. I am trying to get him to let loose of it. It has been sitting idle on an old saw that hasn’t been running for many, many years.

No joke, everywhere I have looked that has reviews available, it is the same thing; Don’t waste my money. I would give it a shot if anyone carried Delta around here, just for the ease of returning it. They used to be sold in large quantities but the company has gone down hill so much that they have been dropped from all of the reputable dealers. Unfulfilled orders, parts obsolescence, heavily damaged shipments, it goes on…

-- Jesse, West Lafayette, Indiana

View Paul's profile

Paul

721 posts in 1961 days


#23 posted 09-10-2016 08:06 PM



This has been a surprisingly difficult decision. I am to the point where I am going to make my own rail system and throw down some coin for a very super cool tools fence. Unless of course I can find an older one locally, which I may have. It is incomplete, but has the fence, and the angle, but not the box tubing or the rear rail. I am trying to get him to let loose of it. It has been sitting idle on an old saw that hasn t been running for many, many years.

No joke, everywhere I have looked that has reviews available, it is the same thing; Don t waste my money. I would give it a shot if anyone carried Delta around here, just for the ease of returning it. They used to be sold in large quantities but the company has gone down hill so much that they have been dropped from all of the reputable dealers. Unfulfilled orders, parts obsolescence, heavily damaged shipments, it goes on…

- Luthierman

Did you miss my original post? A complete saw and fence for $200.

Paul.

P.s. it’s long gone now, but what a great deal.

View Luthierman's profile

Luthierman

222 posts in 1483 days


#24 posted 09-10-2016 10:48 PM

I did, Paul. Chicago is a bit of a haul from here. It ends up being less of a bargain when I figure in my time. That’s worth something too. I did, however pick up 80% of an USA made biese today for 50 bucks. Just need some square tubing.

-- Jesse, West Lafayette, Indiana

View Paul's profile

Paul

721 posts in 1961 days


#25 posted 09-10-2016 11:24 PM



I did, Paul. Chicago is a bit of a haul from here. It ends up being less of a bargain when I figure in my time. That s worth something too. I did, however pick up 80% of an USA made biese today for 50 bucks. Just need some square tubing.

- Luthierman

Good deal, congrats.

Paul

View OggieOglethorpe's profile

OggieOglethorpe

1276 posts in 2506 days


#26 posted 09-11-2016 12:57 AM


The Beiesmeyer doesn t have a an adjustment to set the fence 90 degrees to the table top.
- DDWW

I can t imagine any circumstance where such an adjustment would be useful other than to correct for a manufacturing defect…

It can matter when tongue and grooving, using fence riding implements that also sit on the table, and using the fence as a stop block. In the third case, say you’re flat cutting tenons on wide parts… If the top face is closer to the blade than the bottom, your shoulders will not line up on the faces and edges.

When tongue and grooving, a tilted face can cause the joinery to not fit if the parts wiggle, or are different widths.

It’s not an issue much at all for typical ripping…

View MrUnix's profile

MrUnix

7388 posts in 2594 days


#27 posted 09-11-2016 01:57 AM

I can t imagine any circumstance where such an adjustment would be useful other than to correct for a manufacturing defect…

It can matter when tongue and grooving, using fence riding implements that also sit on the table, and using the fence as a stop block. In the third case, say you re flat cutting tenons on wide parts… If the top face is closer to the blade than the bottom, your shoulders will not line up on the faces and edges.

When tongue and grooving, a tilted face can cause the joinery to not fit if the parts wiggle, or are different widths.

It s not an issue much at all for typical ripping…
- OggieOglethorpe

I agree that a non-90 degree fence face is an issue – no question. However, the fence is welded at the factory at 90 degrees and can’t be ‘knocked’ out of adjustment. Being able to ‘adjust’ for it should not be required – unless there was a manufacturing defect, which is the point. Given the number of those fences that have been sold over the years, and the lack of complaints about it not being adjustable, seems to reinforce that as well.

Cheers,
Brad

-- Brad in FL - In Dog I trust... everything else is questionable

View RichmanNot's profile

RichmanNot

39 posts in 907 days


#28 posted 01-10-2017 01:51 AM

Sir Chuck… How is the Aluminum Extrusion fastened to the Biesemeyer Fence? You mentioned “T-Nuts”... but just how is the Aluminum held to the metal of the T-Square? Did you have to drill through the three inch tubing from the opposite side?

Can you help me understand this – I like the idea a lot. GREAT LOOKING FENCE!

Thanks!

http://vsctools.com/shop/product-category/table-saw-fence/
Vega is still highly rated.

- rick1955

I bought just the machined aluminum extrusion from them,( vsctools), and attached it to my fence using their t-nuts. It s very very flat and accurate.

- Woodchuck2010


-- "can't died in the poor house" (Because he always went around saying... "I can't")

Have your say...

You must be signed in to reply.

DISCLAIMER: Any posts on LJ are posted by individuals acting in their own right and do not necessarily reflect the views of LJ. LJ will not be held liable for the actions of any user.

Latest Projects | Latest Blog Entries | Latest Forum Topics

HomeRefurbers.com