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Screwed (Quite LIterally) By Delta - Once Again

by Kazooman
posted 08-20-2016 08:58 PM


42 replies so far

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cebfish

163 posts in 3252 days


#1 posted 08-20-2016 09:09 PM

Take one to Fastenal and have them match what you have

View nightguy's profile

nightguy

213 posts in 1226 days


#2 posted 08-20-2016 09:16 PM

When installing the bolts get some Never Seez and put it on them.

View Kazooman's profile

Kazooman

1386 posts in 2516 days


#3 posted 08-20-2016 09:22 PM

I hear ya on the anti-seize. I should have thought to do that when I had this problem the first time. I won’t make that mistake again!

Cebfish: Thanks for the suggestion. There is a Fastenal place nearby that might be a good source.

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JollyGreen67

1676 posts in 3326 days


#4 posted 08-20-2016 09:24 PM

Use anti-seize on the screw threads.

-- When I was a kid I wanted to be older . . . . . this CRAP is not what I expected ! RIP 09/08/2018

View MrUnix's profile (online now)

MrUnix

7533 posts in 2763 days


#5 posted 08-20-2016 10:01 PM

Come on man.. Delta screwed you?!? Many of the parts supplied by manufacturers are just off the shelf hardware store items. For example, I don’t know how many bearings I’ve seen that are listed as discontinued or ‘obsolete’ from the manufacturer or after-market suppliers that are easily obtained from a bearing house. Problem is that they want you to buy from them, so they don’t tell you what the industry standard part number is. It is not exclusive to Delta – they all play that game.

Case in point… AFAIK, what you are looking for is nothing more than a very short 1/4”x28tpi hex head bolt. However, finding one short enough might be a bit more difficult, but they are easy to grind down to size if needed – such as this example found on the tube: Delta Knife Screw 1340196

Apparently, they are available from Renovo , but at over $3 a pop. Other places like 1800toolrepair had them listed at over $1 a piece. It’s no wonder they don’t want you to know that you can run down to Tractor Supply and pick up a pound of them for a couple bucks :)

Cheers,
Brad

-- Brad in FL - In Dog I trust... everything else is questionable

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robscastle

6561 posts in 2768 days


#6 posted 08-20-2016 10:21 PM

I am not convienced you have been screwed by Delta,
If the problem has happened before it may well have been caused by the person who is changing the blades for you on your Delta 37-190 6”

The fact you have to go buy a wrench is also a concern as its part of the equipment schedule and the fact that its missing also indicates that the blades have been incorrectly installed.

Your planer is no different to almost every other 6” planer available and the blade maintenance installation setting and change out will be almost the same regardless of the brand.

As indicated by the other LJs you could use anti seize on the screws, this is very good advice however doesnt help in the current task.

Planer blades should be installed using a torque wrench and this can be a simple as the length of the tool and using your judgement to ensure the bolts are all the same installation torque, or a “crows foot torque wrench if you can buy one.
there is documented evidence showing the effect of overtightening the screws in the head available on the net so if you havent seen the articles already.

There is also a table showing the recommended torque settings for various size bolts indicating both dry and lubricated, of which anti seize is.

I checked your operators manual and Delta do not include these figures in the service info, and thats a oversight by Delta in a big way.

The planer allthough not high volume use tool in the workshop in most cases needs to be ready to serve at a moments notice, so it may be worthwile spraying perserving oil on the cutter head after use to prevent any environmental issues effecting servicing. Dont be concerned about residue comtaminating material as the rotating speed will fling it off before you introduce your stock, if it dosent the cutters will remove it anyway.

A helical or spiral head.
You will not reget installing a new head the adjustment and set up time saved alone and piece of mind knowing that everything is perfectly aligned will impress along with the results of finish and loss of noise.

Conclusion: Torpedo 7 sells a small torque wrench suitable for your task but you will ave to buy a crowsfoot as well.

I hope you get your planer purring away soon let us all know how you go please, as having to take to it with a hack saw is not good!

Additional note: I also checked your profile I see you joined in 2013 but have never posted any projects, meaning you have never made anything to post either completed or as a Blog this usually warrants me deleting the reply but in this case there may be others who could benefit so I will leave it this time, .....get to work!

-- Regards Rob

View teejk02's profile

teejk02

504 posts in 1689 days


#7 posted 08-20-2016 10:38 PM



Come on man.. Delta screwed you?!? Many of the parts supplied by manufacturers are just off the shelf hardware store items. For example, I don t know how many bearings I ve seen that are listed as discontinued or obsolete from the manufacturer or after-market suppliers that are easily obtained from a bearing house. Problem is that they want you to buy from them, so they don t tell you what the industry standard part number is. It is not exclusive to Delta – they all play that game.

Case in point… AFAIK, what you are looking for is nothing more than a very short 1/4”x28tpi hex head bolt. However, finding one short enough might be a bit more difficult, but they are easy to grind down to size if needed – such as this example found on the tube: Delta Knife Screw 1340196

Cheers,
Brad

- MrUnix

Yup…why do people think that ANY manufacturer would bother to produce tiny inconsequential parts that will be used on a relatively small number of products instead of designing the machine to use mass produced parts that don’t matter? I have 3 hardware stores in my small town and they all have those “tray” bins of just about every conceivable nut/bolt/screw that you will ever need (and we have a Fastenal not far away). Sometimes not cheap but certainly much cheaper than OEM even before considering shipping. Now back to the case in point…the screws are typically hard to remove for a reason…I find them much easier to remove with an impact driver (air or cordless). Being able to put downward pressure while the tool does its work has removed a lot of curse words from the experience. As an aside, was time to replace blades on my ZTR mower last week. Breaker bar was not enough (to the point where I called the dealer and asked about whether they were reverse thread which is typical on some stuff). Oiled up my old impact driver and 30 seconds later those blades were off even using my little pancake compressor.

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Kazooman

1386 posts in 2516 days


#8 posted 08-20-2016 10:45 PM

MrUnix:

I usually agree with most of what you have to offer, but quite frankly, I am so pissed off at Delta for failing to provide any support for the thousands of dollars I have invested in their machines that I have to differ with you. I have rigged up too many repairs with J-B Weld to not be more than a bit up in arms about yet another problem.

Yes, 1800toolrepair USED TO SELL THESE SCREWS, for over a buck apiece. Over a buck apiece!!! Are you kidding me????? They, like everyone else, are out of stock. Thanks for the great tip on a supply. Absolutely no help whatsoever.

The Youtube video is great! Just what I needed. A tutorial on how to take a too long screw with an over sized head and cut them off and grind the heads down to make them fit. You know….. I could have thought of that and I could have done it. However…. you know what? I paid a good deal of money for the jointer and I fully anticipated that the company would stand behind it and continue to offer simple replacement parts like screws. You bet I think Delta screwed me again. I shouldn’t have to make my own knife screws or spend a lot of time scouring the Internet trying to find the specs on the parts and a source.

As to your case in point, You may think that this is simply a “very short” 1/4” x 28tpi screw. The head, at least is METRIC. I confirmed that. It is exactly 8mm. The wrench that came with the jointer to remove the screws is an 8mm wrench. I have not has the opportunity to determine what the threads are, but I would assume they are also metric. My local Tractor Supply tends to deal in parts in English dimensions. My local Ace hardware store does better on metric parts, but they are also limited.

Your comment about parts such as bearings being common off the shelf parts is appropriate. However, in the case of something as simple as this screw all it would take is for Delta to tell you up front what the specs on the part are. For example (apologies to all of the SawStop haters) the parts diagrams for my SawStop table saw give the precise details for every nut, bolt, and washer in the machine. I do not need to buy any spare parts from them. I can easily find parts from other vendors.

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nightguy

213 posts in 1226 days


#9 posted 08-20-2016 11:36 PM

robscastle, just because someone has not posted pics of projects they made does not mean they have not made anything. I dont post any, and I made all my furniture and other things, clocks, bowls, trays ect, except my recliner, mattress and box spring.

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distrbd

2252 posts in 3010 days


#10 posted 08-21-2016 12:00 AM

Kazooman, could you not drill the old screws out, re-tap the holes and use imperial screws one size up ?

-- Ken from Ontario, Canada

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Kazooman

1386 posts in 2516 days


#11 posted 08-21-2016 01:40 AM


Kazooman, could you not drill the old screws out, re-tap the holes and use imperial screws one size up ?

- distrbd

Yes, but it is not a question of drilling out the old holes. The screws are seated in a very narrow slot and it really does seem that they were never made of the best material. It is very easy to round over the corners of the heads when trying to loosen the screws. The fix I used the last time was to pull the cutter and use a hand held hack saw blade to cut the head off the screw. When I got the clamping bar out of the cutter head I was able to grab onto the shaft of the screw with a pair of vise grips and remove it. If I have to go to the screw cutting route again I will use a Dremel tool and a cutoff wheel.

As for Robscastles suggestion that the individual who installed the blades screwed up, the first instance I encountered was the first time I tried to change the factory installed blades. I did not over tighten the screws, no local service tech over tightened the screws, they CAME that way from the factory. Yes, as he suggested, a wrench WAS a part of the original accessories that came with the jointer. It was a cheap stamped out sheet metal part and the shorter leg of the wrench broke off before any bolts were removed. I purchased a much higher quality wrench, but it was still not up to the task. As I indicated, I had to saw through a few bolts to get them out of the head.

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Kazooman

1386 posts in 2516 days


#12 posted 08-21-2016 02:00 AM



robscastle, just because someone has not posted pics of projects they made does not mean they have not made anything. I dont post any, and I made all my furniture and other things, clocks, bowls, trays ect, except my recliner, mattress and box spring.

- nightguy

Thanks, Nightguy,

I was trying to think of a polite way to say that I really don’t feel the need to post projects that I make for my personal use and to give to others as gifts. I am not a professional trying to do woodworking for a living and I am not looking for any “attaboy’s”. I believe have a good track record of responding to questions from others with good advice and links to resources. I have posted numerous pictures of pieces I have made in the course of responding to various threads. I frequent this forum to learn techniques, get information about new innovations, and perhaps provide a bit of advice to others when I can. When I joined this forum I was never under any impression that there was a requirement to post any projects as an entry fee to enter into the discussion. Perhaps I was mistaken.

Robscastle’s quote “this usually warrants me deleting the reply but in this case there may be others who could benefit so I will leave it this time” says it all for me. Thank you for leaving those comments up for the benefit of the rest of us. By the way…. the machine in question is a jointer as I stated, not a planer as suggested.

View dbray45's profile

dbray45

3320 posts in 3340 days


#13 posted 08-21-2016 02:41 AM

Once you get the screws out, speak with Fastenal or other company and get hardened allen head screws. These will hold up much better and be removable.

Some of the manufacturors use off the shelf screws and they are too soft for long term use

-- David in Damascus, MD

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Woodknack

12945 posts in 2944 days


#14 posted 08-21-2016 03:04 AM

Buy a good quality wrench (not Chinesium) that won’t spread when you torque on it, buy some anti-seize, and don’t crank the screws so tight you break something. And sell all your old Delta machines because you keep breaking them and they are never going to stock parts again for those old machines. Replace it with a brand new machine because no one else is making parts for their old machines either. Best of luck.

-- Rick M, http://thewoodknack.blogspot.com/

View oldnovice's profile

oldnovice

7511 posts in 3931 days


#15 posted 08-21-2016 04:09 AM

If you have access to an impact driver it may also help!

-- "I never met a board I didn't like!"

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Kelly

2536 posts in 3508 days


#16 posted 08-21-2016 04:12 AM

Perfect example number one: My Powermatic bandsaw guide bearing went south when I neglected to set them after a blade replacement. Powermatic wants a mere twenty each for the five upper or five lower bearings. In the alternative, I can go to a bearing manufacturer on line and buy the same bearings in a package of eight for about five bucks.

Example number two, my Stabilizer bearing went south and I could replace it through Carter for around forty, or go to the company I bought my PM bearings from and only pay seven.


Come on man.. Delta screwed you?!? Many of the parts supplied by manufacturers are just off the shelf hardware store items. For example, I don t know how many bearings I ve seen that are listed as discontinued or obsolete from the manufacturer or after-market suppliers that are easily obtained from a bearing house. Problem is that they want you to buy from them, so they don t tell you what the industry standard part number is. It is not exclusive to Delta – they all play that game.

Case in point… AFAIK, what you are looking for is nothing more than a very short 1/4”x28tpi hex head bolt. However, finding one short enough might be a bit more difficult, but they are easy to grind down to size if needed – such as this example found on the tube: Delta Knife Screw 1340196

Apparently, they are available from Renovo , but at over $3 a pop. Other places like 1800toolrepair had them listed at over $1 a piece. It s no wonder they don t want you to know that you can run down to Tractor Supply and pick up a pound of them for a couple bucks :)

Cheers,
Brad

- MrUnix


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runswithscissors

3081 posts in 2589 days


#17 posted 08-21-2016 05:02 AM

I agree with Dbray45: get hardened screws. Heads won’t round over and screws won’t break. I believe the allen head screws you would want are cap screws. An allen screw without a head wouldn’t hold the knives on very well. Just be sure the heads don’t stick out so far that they would interfere with anything.

-- I admit to being an adrenaline junky; fortunately, I'm very easily frightened

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robscastle

6561 posts in 2768 days


#18 posted 08-21-2016 08:20 AM

Make that “Jointer” not Planer, thanks for taking the time to read! Cannot edit the reply!
The “get to work still applies!! tee hee

-- Regards Rob

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Kazooman

1386 posts in 2516 days


#19 posted 08-21-2016 11:58 AM

Thanks for the suggestions to ask for hardened screws. I will see if they are available. I just hope that someone has screws like these. They are a bit unusual.

I cannot use Allen head cap screws. The screws go into a bar that presses against the blades to clamp them in place. The whole assembly fits into a slot in the cutter head. You then actually back the screws out so that the top of their heads presses against the side of the slot. The top of the head is not accessible. You have to work from the side and you need a really thin wrench. That is one reason the original stamped wrench failed. It was only about 3/32 thick.

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runswithscissors

3081 posts in 2589 days


#20 posted 08-21-2016 08:17 PM

Oh, right. I wasn’t thinking of that kind of knife retainer. But hardened screws will still be better, especially if you can find a better quality wrench. Easiest way to do that is to buy a good quality one from a pawn shop or thrift store (usually 50 cents to a buck) and grind it thinner to fit in the narrow slot. I never hesitate to modify wrenches if needed, since they can be gotten so cheaply.

-- I admit to being an adrenaline junky; fortunately, I'm very easily frightened

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leec

19 posts in 1207 days


#21 posted 08-21-2016 08:54 PM

I had the same problem with a Delta 37-190 I bought off CL. After stripping a wrench or 2, and before I rounded over the screw heads too badly, I sacrificed a pair of vice-grips to get the screws out. The challenge is finding vice-grips with a thin enough set of jaws to get into the narrow slot. I took a small long-nose pair of vise grips, and cut off all but about 1/2” of the jaws – you want to grip the screws as close to the pivot point of the vise grips to get maximum force. Then I filed down the serrations on what was left of the jaws so they were flat and parallel to each other when set to the size of the jointer screw heads (i.e. like an adjustable wrench). If you can’t find vice-grips with thin enough jaws, you’ll have to file them to fit, too. Then I adjusted the vice-grips as tight as I could, so that I had to squeeze like hell to get them on the screw heads – you don’t want it to slip. I managed to get all the stuck screws out without further damaging the heads. Since I now have a dedicated jointer wrench to use whenever I need to remove the blades, I made a holster for it attached to the jointer stand.

BTW – the vice-grips I used were from this cheap Lowe’s set – http://www.lowes.com/pd/Kobalt-3-Piece-Household-Tool-Set/50029420.

-- Lee, Framingham, MA

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Kazooman

1386 posts in 2516 days


#22 posted 08-21-2016 09:37 PM

A partial update from Kalamazoo:

Grinding down wrenches or vise-grips may be the only way to go. I bought yet another 8mm open end wrench and it would not remove the stuck bolts. I did try a pair of needle-nosed vise-grips, but they would not grab well enough. So…. as I did once before, I cut the heads off two screws. This time I was able to use a Dremel tool and the job went much faster. I was able to get all of the rest of the screws out, but a few were damaged in the process. I had enough good screws to combine with the leftovers I had from my last experience to make a full set. Cleaned everything up, installed the new knives (with anti-seize compound!!!) and buttoned it up. The new knives required a major adjustment since they were a bit wider than the Delta set in the jointer. All is well and the jointer is working again. I will “get to work” once again.

However….. what about the next time? I visited Loews, Menards, and two well stocked hardware stores today. There is nothing like the original screws available. It turns out that both MrUnix and I are both correct on our own parts of the dimensions. The threads are 1/4 – 28 AND the hex head is an 8mm metric! Very strange. The length of the screws is not any common fraction of inches and is not an even number of millimeters. The head of the screw is crowned so that only the center point makes contact with the wall of the groove in the planer head when you tighten it. I would imagine that the clamping bar would tend to move around as you tightened screws with flat heads that were contacting a larger surface. AFAIK these screws are not a common item of commerce and were custom made for the purpose (AND for a long list of other Delta jointers). Now they are no longer available. The only recourse seems to be grinding down some screws to make them fit. Screwed again? I will leave that decision up to you.

I intend to visit Fastenal this week to ask them, but I have been on their website and there is nothing remotely like the needed screws. I will let you know what they say.

Note to RickM. Your comment about ditching all of my Delta machines strikes home. I was a hard core Delta fan with a contractor’s saw, planer, two dust collectors, jointer, band saw, drill press, miter saw, and a host of accessories. I have had an increasing number of issues due to ageing machines and the fact that many (most?) Delta parts are no longer available. Several jerry-rigged repairs. The table saw was the first to go. I gave it to the guy who has done most of the remodeling work on my house in exchange for his crew getting my SawsStop safely into the basement. The planer went to a friend who is new to woodworking when I got a Dewalt 735. I got two nice bottles of wine for it. The rest will slowly be replaced as needs be. I did quit buying Delta and have moved to other brands.

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MrUnix

7533 posts in 2763 days


#23 posted 08-21-2016 09:58 PM

No idea why they shipped with a metric wrench, but a 5/16” SAE wrench can be used on 8mm bolt heads. And from what I’ve read, those bolts are only 3/8” in length, so a 1/4”x28tpi-3/4” thin head bolt should work with minimal effort.

Cheers,
Brad

PS: I have lots of old Delta tools and have never -not- been able to find parts except for one (but was able to make a better replacement myself), even for machines that are 60+ years old. Not many directly from Delta though, as Pentair and Black and Decker made that almost impossible (read here for a brief description of the problem).

-- Brad in FL - In Dog I trust... everything else is questionable

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ScottCen5

6 posts in 1213 days


#24 posted 08-21-2016 10:01 PM

I have to agree that moving on from Delta tools is the way to go. I have the same jointer and got a good deal on it. The cast block that holds the height adjustment screw just cracked. Of coarse, not in stock. First tried getting it welded, ended up having to make my own. I’ll admit I took some satisfaction in fixing it myself, but I would have preffered the part just be available. A new 8” Grizzly may be in my future.

I just joined LJ’s, sorry I haven’t posted any pics yet

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teejk02

504 posts in 1689 days


#25 posted 08-21-2016 11:12 PM



A partial update from Kalamazoo:

Grinding down wrenches or vise-grips may be the only way to go. I bought yet another 8mm open end wrench and it would not remove the stuck bolts. I did try a pair of needle-nosed vise-grips, but they would not grab well enough. So…. as I did once before, I cut the heads off two screws. This time I was able to use a Dremel tool and the job went much faster. I was able to get all of the rest of the screws out, but a few were damaged in the process. I had enough good screws to combine with the leftovers I had from my last experience to make a full set. Cleaned everything up, installed the new knives (with anti-seize compound!!!) and buttoned it up. The new knives required a major adjustment since they were a bit wider than the Delta set in the jointer. All is well and the jointer is working again. I will “get to work” once again.

However….. what about the next time? I visited Loews, Menards, and two well stocked hardware stores today. There is nothing like the original screws available. It turns out that both MrUnix and I are both correct on our own parts of the dimensions. The threads are 1/4 – 28 AND the hex head is an 8mm metric! Very strange. The length of the screws is not any common fraction of inches and is not an even number of millimeters. The head of the screw is crowned so that only the center point makes contact with the wall of the groove in the planer head when you tighten it. I would imagine that the clamping bar would tend to move around as you tightened screws with flat heads that were contacting a larger surface. AFAIK these screws are not a common item of commerce and were custom made for the purpose (AND for a long list of other Delta jointers). Now they are no longer available. The only recourse seems to be grinding down some screws to make them fit. Screwed again? I will leave that decision up to you.

I intend to visit Fastenal this week to ask them, but I have been on their website and there is nothing remotely like the needed screws. I will let you know what they say.

Note to RickM. Your comment about ditching all of my Delta machines strikes home. I was a hard core Delta fan with a contractor s saw, planer, two dust collectors, jointer, band saw, drill press, miter saw, and a host of accessories. I have had an increasing number of issues due to ageing machines and the fact that many (most?) Delta parts are no longer available. Several jerry-rigged repairs. The table saw was the first to go. I gave it to the guy who has done most of the remodeling work on my house in exchange for his crew getting my SawsStop safely into the basement. The planer went to a friend who is new to woodworking when I got a Dewalt 735. I got two nice bottles of wine for it. The rest will slowly be replaced as needs be. I did quit buying Delta and have moved to other brands.

- Kazooman

I goofed on my earlier reply (been a long time since I changed knives on my Delta 37-190…I’ve learned to treat them like a rare jewel). The first time I did it I knew that that cheap wrench was not going to work…not only did it not grab enough of the head, it was way to short to provide any meaningful leverage (they are “tight” for a reason, probably dictated by their legal dept. The internet is full of complaints about trying to remove the fasteners from the lunch-box planer knives). Like any bolt or nut I STOP if there is any slop between the head and the wrench. Lucky for me I had the correct wrench from an old Honda motorcycle and that’s what I have used ever since. But back to the replacement…these 6” jointers all seem to be the same other than color…have to wonder whether Jet or ShopFox or Grizzly uses the same bolt.

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Kazooman

1386 posts in 2516 days


#26 posted 08-22-2016 12:27 AM


No idea why they shipped with a metric wrench, but a 5/16” SAE wrench can be used on 8mm bolt heads. And from what I ve read, those bolts are only 3/8” in length, so a 1/4”x28tpi-3/4” thin head bolt should work with minimal effort.

Cheers,
Brad

PS: I have lots of old Delta tools and have never -not- been able to find parts except for one (but was able to make a better replacement myself), even for machines that are 60+ years old. Not many directly from Delta though, as Pentair and Black and Decker made that almost impossible (read here for a brief description of the problem).

- MrUnix

Hi Brad,

I have a good digital caliper. The head on these screws is exactly 8mm. No mistake on Delta’s part on shipping the wrench. They made these crazy screws with these amazing dimensions.

Search for Delta 22-540 12” portable planer type 1 Handle. That is the crank handle that flips over for storage and transport. The small piece that connects the handle to the shaft is the weak link. It is basically designed to fail. When that happens you are SCREWED by Delta. There are no replacements and unlike common bearings this is a specialty part. Your planer has no means of going up and down. I “fixed” mine with a ton of JBWeld to hold the piece in place with a carefully drilled bolt. It no longer flips out of the way for transport but you can adjust the height of the planer. As I indicated, I gave it away to a friend in return for two bottles of wine (I had not asked for anything in return).

If you can make a better retrofit flip over handle then you just might have a good aftermarket business opportunity. A good sideline might be some of. those very short 1/4 X 28 screws with the 8mm hex heads with the crown on their head to bear against the planer head groove.

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Woodknack

12945 posts in 2944 days


#27 posted 08-22-2016 06:48 AM

Well I have to eat my words, it is an oddball screw and not too many of them around. I would definitely sell that thing after this fix.

-- Rick M, http://thewoodknack.blogspot.com/

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Kazooman

1386 posts in 2516 days


#28 posted 08-22-2016 08:26 PM

Last follow-up as I promised. Went to Fastenal today. They were amazed to be holding a 1/4-28 screw with an 8mm metric head. Never saw anything like it before. Needless to say, they did not have much to offer. The best they could do was just what Brad suggested with a 3/8” 1/4-28 screw that I could grind down to work. I hope it never comes to that. My final effort on this will be to check all of the jointers the next time I am in Woodcraft to see if any of them might have knife screws that could substitute. I have looked at some parts diagrams online, but, like Delta, they do not provide the specs on their parts.

Finally, for Robscastle, a couple of pictures (not the best, for sure) to show that I actually do cut some wood on occasion. A jewelry box for my wife. Curly maple with wenge trim.

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JADobson

1448 posts in 2675 days


#29 posted 08-22-2016 08:36 PM

Literally screwed.

-- No craft is very far from the line beyond which is magic. -- Lord Dunsany — Instagram @grailwoodworks

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teejk02

504 posts in 1689 days


#30 posted 08-22-2016 08:47 PM



Last follow-up as I promised. Went to Fastenal today. They were amazed to be holding a 1/4-28 screw with an 8mm metric head. Never saw anything like it before. Needless to say, they did not have much to offer. The best they could do was just what Brad suggested with a 3/8” 1/4-28 screw that I could grind down to work. I hope it never comes to that. My final effort on this will be to check all of the jointers the next time I am in Woodcraft to see if any of them might have knife screws that could substitute. I have looked at some parts diagrams online, but, like Delta, they do not provide the specs on their parts.

Finally, for Robscastle, a couple of pictures (not the best, for sure) to show that I actually do cut some wood on occasion. A jewelry box for my wife. Curly maple with wenge trim.

- Kazooman

Nice work! I’m heading to town tomorrow and will check the “pull-out” trays at one of my local hardware stores. They have never failed me yet with the odd stuff they carry. Will post back.

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MrUnix

7533 posts in 2763 days


#31 posted 08-22-2016 08:50 PM

The best they could do was just what Brad suggested with a 3/8” 1/4-28 screw that I could grind down to work. I hope it never comes to that. My final effort on this will be to check all of the jointers the next time I am in Woodcraft to see if any of them might have knife screws that could substitute. I have looked at some parts diagrams online, but, like Delta, they do not provide the specs on their parts.
- Kazooman

I don’t really know why you are so hesitant… 30 seconds on a grinder per screw and you can have all you would ever need for a few cents each. Also the suggestion about looking at other manufacturers is a good one. Towards the end of the “Pentair” years of Delta, most of their machines were being made overseas, except for the Unisaw IIRC. Many other manufacturers were producing clones of it, and most likely were coming out of the same factory before hitting the shipyards to come across the pond. Of course, if you can source some OEM replacements from another manufacturer, you will still probably be looking at paying stupid prices for such a simple item.

Cheers,
Brad

-- Brad in FL - In Dog I trust... everything else is questionable

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Jim Dawson

114 posts in 1396 days


#32 posted 08-22-2016 11:22 PM

This place shows them in stock. Apparently their house brand.

http://www.renovo.parts/1340196-knife-lock-screws-also-1347042/

View teejk02's profile

teejk02

504 posts in 1689 days


#33 posted 08-22-2016 11:41 PM



The best they could do was just what Brad suggested with a 3/8” 1/4-28 screw that I could grind down to work. I hope it never comes to that. My final effort on this will be to check all of the jointers the next time I am in Woodcraft to see if any of them might have knife screws that could substitute. I have looked at some parts diagrams online, but, like Delta, they do not provide the specs on their parts.
- Kazooman

I don t really know why you are so hesitant… 30 seconds on a grinder per screw and you can have all you would ever need for a few cents each. Also the suggestion about looking at other manufacturers is a good one. Towards the end of the “Pentair” years of Delta, most of their machines were being made overseas, except for the Unisaw IIRC. Many other manufacturers were producing clones of it, and most likely were coming out of the same factory before hitting the shipyards to come across the pond. Of course, if you can source some OEM replacements from another manufacturer, you will still probably be looking at paying stupid prices for such a simple item.

Cheers,
Brad

- MrUnix

OEM pricing on most things is absurd even before you add in shipping. E.g. replacing that piston stop on a PC nailer or the seals on a Cat pressure pump or [INSERT HERE]. As I posted earlier I am now curious and will check out my locals. I have 3 stores…fine thread, 1/4 inch, and something close to 8mm with a low profile. I bet I can find them. If not, my bench grinder gets used a lot as does my Dewalt angle grinder.

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JAAune

1872 posts in 2880 days


#34 posted 08-23-2016 01:27 PM

Get yourself some square head set screws. They come in the 1/4-28×3/4 and 1/4-28×1/2 sizes. Plus they have the crowned head and cupped point that’s needed for the application.

Fastenal

-- See my work at http://remmertstudios.com and http://altaredesign.com

View Kazooman's profile

Kazooman

1386 posts in 2516 days


#35 posted 08-23-2016 01:43 PM

Good find on the renovo site, Jim. Pricey, but good to know they can be had.

It is interesting how my browser missed it. I use Chrome and the default search engine is supposed to be Google. For some reason this keeps being changed to Yahoo without any input from me. Searching “delta 1340196 knife screw” on Yahoo does not find the Renovo site on my machine. When I put the search engine back to Google the Renovo site is about number five on the list. There are times when I hate computers.

Another good find on the square head set screws from Fastenal. Surprised they didn’t think of them when I was there yesterday. The would need to be cut down a bit in length, but that would be easy. Losing the cupped point would not be an issue since the screws do not bottom out in use.I think I need another road trip just try buy a few of these to see how well they work out.

View Underdog's profile

Underdog

1416 posts in 2599 days


#36 posted 08-23-2016 02:09 PM

Good to know that they’re called “knife lock screws”. When I looked for some on our old DJ20 several years ago, there were only 8 available in the entire USA…. I bought all of them.

-- Jim, Georgia, USA

View Kazooman's profile

Kazooman

1386 posts in 2516 days


#37 posted 08-23-2016 02:14 PM



Good to know that they re called “knife lock screws”. When I looked for some on our old DJ20 several years ago, there were only 8 available in the entire USA…. I bought all of them.

- Underdog

So your’e the one who created the shortage! Well done.

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Underdog

1416 posts in 2599 days


#38 posted 08-23-2016 02:40 PM

Ha Ha!
With only 8 left, I doubt it. This was back when Delta was pulling back after the recession… Woodworking manufacturers haven’t come back from that even now.
I’m headed to the IWF at the end of the week, and if it’s anything like the last couple, it’s still GREATLY diminished in size compared to pre-2007 years. It used to fill up every single nook and cranny of all three halls (and hallways) in the World Congress Center, and now it ALMOST fills two of those halls.

-- Jim, Georgia, USA

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Woodknack

12945 posts in 2944 days


#39 posted 08-23-2016 08:01 PM



Searching “delta 1340196 knife screw” on Yahoo does not find the Renovo site on my machine.
- Kazooman

MrUnix mentioned Renovo had them back in post #5.

-- Rick M, http://thewoodknack.blogspot.com/

View Kazooman's profile

Kazooman

1386 posts in 2516 days


#40 posted 08-23-2016 10:26 PM


Searching “delta 1340196 knife screw” on Yahoo does not find the Renovo site on my machine.
- Kazooman

MrUnix mentioned Renovo had them back in post #5.

- Rick M.

Yep, My bad. I missed that. I skipped right past that to the next link he mentioned and they were out of stock. Apologies to MrUnix.

I do plan to pick up some of the Fastenal square headed screws tomorrow and I will run a nut on, cut them to length, and remove the nut to clean the threads, One issue in question are whether or not the corners of the square heads are below the circumference of the head (I think they will be) and they could be ground down. if there is any problem tightening the screws since the square head has requirements that the hex head does not. I think we should be good to go with both potential issues and the price point of about a half of Renovo is very nice.

View JAAune's profile

JAAune

1872 posts in 2880 days


#41 posted 08-23-2016 11:12 PM

The reason I was familiar with the square head set screws is because I worked for a company that had an old 12” jointer with damaged knife screws. We used those as replacements and they worked fine. I’m pretty sure the corners are indeed lower than the center of the screw head.

-- See my work at http://remmertstudios.com and http://altaredesign.com

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runswithscissors

3081 posts in 2589 days


#42 posted 08-24-2016 05:03 AM

Try chucking the screws (thread end) in a drill and running the head against a grinder or sander. You could create a slight dome shape easily that way.

-- I admit to being an adrenaline junky; fortunately, I'm very easily frightened

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